James McClean M Wrexham b.1989

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

Footballers are big enough and well paid enough to know that football is a results business and that form at any given time is crucial to your prospects of selection. Loyalty is nice, but it should not be blind. See Kev Kilbane scenario.

By the time we take on Croatia in June it will have been almost 8 months since the squad will have played any game of consequence. To select players purely on the basis of how they played in matches in the preceding years is a resolutely close minded and uninformed selection. We know there won't be wholesale changes but by no means should he close the door on players who show form in the next 6 months. Players are grown men, so being selected or left out of squads should not affect harmony or morale. As regards consistency, new players don't have to be geniuses to figure out how to play in the Trap's straight jacket style formation.

My philosophy is, if you are good enough, you should play. Simplistic? Yes. Effective? Yes.

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What you say is correct. A healthy balance and sensible approach. :)

One must also take into account factors such as team morale and international experience. So, if Duff plays less games than McClean for the remainder of this season then does that mean he should go on merit? Trap could argue Duff is an influential member of the squad and dropping him would be detrimental towards morale, given the extent and length of his career in the green jersey. I'm sure arguments could be made for the other left-sided midfield players; McGeady and Hunt. McGeady being, arguably, a proven and quality international winger during Trap's time and Hunt's work rate off the bench and possibly team morale. I'm sure Trap takes all these issues into account.

Fair enough McClean may or may not go on to overshadow the likes of Duff and Hunt this season. But, that pair are experienced at this level whereas McClean has played no senior competitive internationals.

If Hunt continues to deliver poor performances for Wolves & McClean continues to impress - and recognising that Traps responsibility is to do the best for Ireland in the finals (not to reward recent mediocrity) then he should pick the player most likely to make a positive contribution.

The best teams all have competition for places - we should be no different.

I think Trap's just trying to dampen expectations. If McClean is playing well enough he'll go. Trap's shown his ruthlessness before - dropping Kilbane, taking Andy Keogh off after 15 minutes v Italy, etc.

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

Sure but I don't think that philosophy is enough to overcome the inherent problems highlighted by Danny (consistency, harmony, morale).

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I just don't buy this morale, harmony thing. We know Trap, look at how he has developed his squad during his tenure. It's only ever in a piecemeal fashion, never any seismic changes. Does McLean have some reputation as a particularly thorny or argumentative character or something?

Did Colin Healy rock the boat by his inclusion in 2002?

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

My view - it's up to McClean or Hoolahan to make themselves impossible ignore. If McClean bangs in 20 goals between now and June, maybe...but it'd have to be some run of form for anyone to force their way in (notwithstanding injuries or the two-three positions genuinely up for grabs).

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I have never advocated Hoolahans inclusion in the squad. He simply doesn't fit Trap's system. He would unbalance the style of play that Trap espouses.

McLean would fit into the team pretty seamlessly. Trap gives his wingers licence to express themselves creatively. Thus if McLean is performing better than the players he is vying for a position with, why should he not be included in the squad?

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

I just don't buy this morale, harmony thing. We know Trap, look at how he has developed his squad during his tenure. It's only ever in a piecemeal fashion, never any seismic changes. Does McLean have some reputation as a particularly thorny or argumentative character or something?

Did Colin Healy rock the boat by his inclusion in 2002?

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I don't know anything about McClean's character but I'm sure he's a grand fella :p
The hit to moral is that the squad is quite tight knit and the exclusion of one of the regular squad members might cause some of his mates left in the squad to get the hump causing McClean to feel like an outsider.
Who knows?
I do however think Trap should have an open mind about 1 or 2 squad places based on form rather than reputation and a least it's good to know we have some capable replacements waiting in the wings if someone gets injured or totally loses form.
As has been said on here already McClean still has to prove himself over the next 5 months but if he keeps up the performances I would have nothing against him replacing someone who is not doing the business but if that someone was Duff it would be a big shame. Hunt is fair game :p

I'm easy both ways, undying loyalty towards Hunt or stabbing him in the back.

Trap is going to dance with who brung him.
No question.

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

I just don't buy this morale, harmony thing. We know Trap, look at how he has developed his squad during his tenure. It's only ever in a piecemeal fashion, never any seismic changes. Does McLean have some reputation as a particularly thorny or argumentative character or something?

Did Colin Healy rock the boat by his inclusion in 2002?

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It's got nothing to do with McClean's character, or anyone else's, but more the character of who he leaves out (if anyone). It's simply contradictory to the team spirit and tactical philosophy Trap has fostered and has been crucial to the side's success thus far if he were to drop an established player for someone who's yet to be capped.

You understand I'm not ruling it out only saying McClean, or anyone else, would have to do extraordinary things between now and June combined with another player in the same position playing really, really poorly or peeing Trap off.

Healy's a grand dude as well but, of course, he was only called up because Keane dropped out and ended up not going at all.

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Originally Posted by French Toasht

I have never advocated Hoolahans inclusion in the squad. He simply doesn't fit Trap's system. He would unbalance the style of play that Trap espouses.

McLean would fit into the team pretty seamlessly. Trap gives his wingers licence to express themselves creatively. Thus if McLean is performing better than the players he is vying for a position with, why should he not be included in the squad?

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Only mentioned Hoolahan as another potential bolter. I entirely agree, I think McClean - physical, brilliant engine, excellent work rate - is Trap's ideal player. But current form shouldn't never be the only consideration when picking an international squad. It's just not that simple. By that reckoning St Ledger, Westwood, Foley, McCarthy, Fahey, Gibson, Wilson, Hunt, Duff, Doyle and probably a few others would be in serious difficulties.

McClean has to displace one of our most experienced, and effective players, and another who has become a definitive part of the squad and has the potential to make a big impact. This time last year Hunt was having a very good time with Wolves, and has scoring/form hotstreaks in previous seasons. No reason he can't pick up his game, for example. And even if McClean keeps it up, I'd still bring the experienced heads who got us here in the first place unless Hunt's form was almost chronic and doing disastrous things to his mentality.

McCarthy operated the same philosophy and got the best out of players such as Kinsella, Holland, Kilbane and Breen - players who would otherwise be best as described as 'pretty decent but undistinguished'. I think it's an important consideration with sides with small playing pools, like ourselves.

Trap's going to go with whatever approach Trap thinks will get us results. If he thinks loyalty to regulars is the best way to achieve that, so be it, but he's also said he's watching players like McClean, so I don't think he can be accused of being blindly stubborn either.

There's a fine balance between the quality any 'new' player would bring to a squad and the extent to which team morale of a sense of togetherness would be affected.

I'm not sure on the argument that he hasn't experienced Trap's system, and it's too late for him to learn (to be involved in the Euros). If he looks like being a good enough player, get him involved in friendlies, see how he does. Does McClean have what it takes to improve the squad? He has shown a lot of potential so far, but as mentioned, it has only been a few games.

And a large part of me thinks that any player who gets the hump because a player has been drafted into the squad who wasn't involved in the qualifiers in place of one of his mates should be told fairly bluntly to grow the **** up.

Well, as some other people suggested, selecting only the players who helped us qualify would mean bringing Kilbane, and that's unlikely to happen. Fair enough, McClean didn't play in the qualifiers, but Trap has been very clear on this - we don't have a world class selection to pick from. If McClean makes the grade with Sunderland and plays well in friendlies, he makes the squad, end of.

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Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Trap's going to go with whatever approach Trap thinks will get us results. If he thinks loyalty to regulars is the best way to achieve that, so be it, but he's also said he's watching players like McClean, so I don't think he can be accused of being blindly stubborn either.

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The issue of loyalty versus quality is downright laughable if you're using it in the context of Duff versus McClean. I'm sure Sergio Ramos would be the only one pleased if we went down the route of dropping our most consistent attacking player. It's a relevant argument in the context of Kilbane where there are other, better left backs. Duff, Hunt and McGeady are all better players by some distance over McClean, with experience and familiarity to boot.

I doubt it's even a consideration. McCleans only chance is leapfrogging Coleman and Lawrence for a squad place imo.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

And a large part of me thinks that any player who gets the hump because a player has been drafted into the squad who wasn't involved in the qualifiers in place of one of his mates should be told fairly bluntly to grow the **** up.

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In fairness, I'm not sure I've made the argument as simply as 'players will throw their toys'. I don't think that'll necessarily happen, in fact think it's really very unlikely given the professionals involved. But disharmony doesn't have to be that overt. Given the consistent application of unified tactics and mentality Trap has instilled, it would be contradictory to overly go with 'form players' at the expense of others, would be the general just of my argument.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Well, as some other people suggested, selecting only the players who helped us qualify would mean bringing Kilbane, and that's unlikely to happen. Fair enough, McClean didn't play in the qualifiers, but Trap has been very clear on this - we don't have a world class selection to pick from. If McClean makes the grade with Sunderland and plays well in friendlies, he makes the squad, end of.

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As I said with Kilbane, he's an exceptional case - he was a make-shift solution to LB and his drop down the leagues made his demotion more inevitable. It would've happened sooner except nobody made a big case for inclusion/Trap was reluctant to change up.

So instead of looking at it as 'McClean/anyone should go if in form' the question should be more 'who would make way?' If it's McClean, then the obvious candidate is Hunt, since his form is patchy and he's not starting regularly for Wolves.

But Hunt has played a fairly big part in the qualification campaign, has a lot of experience and, more importantly, has a definite role to play at the Euros. Hunt's one of our first options off the bench, given Duff rarely gets through 90 minutes and Stephen tends to have a big impact when coming on. Moreover he's great set-piece taker and a proven performer.

Can the same be said about McClean? Not at the moment. And would Trap, or anyone, be as confident calling him from the bench? I'm not so sure - and the last thing anyone wants is a Walcott type situation.

My view is Hunt would have to be playing total and utter muck to negate the positives he brings. And he tends to be a fairly streaky player - it wouldn't surprise me if he was instrumental in Wolves run-in (as he was last year).

I'm not against McClean, or anyone, going (I'd love to see McClean there!) but the majority of the squad are entitled to shirts given their experience, their proven performances, the transitory nature of 'form' and general squad unity. If a player's mentality and ability go completely in the next few months then their place could be in danger, sure, but, as I said, it strikes me as more about the players likely to go than someone new playing their way in.

I just think Traps comments are not the cleverest. Whatever about what his plans are privately, but to all but close the door on McLean publicly is unwise purely from a squad competitiveness point of view. Gibson and Sledge have/ are in the process of securing moves to ensure first team football, so as to increase their Euro 2012 prospects. Trap should at least publicly be endorsing competition for squad places so as to spur on Duff and Hunt to get the best out of them in the next few months, instead of cementing their place irrespective of how dismal their form has been of late.

I want to re-iterate, as of now, I want Hunt and Duff as I don't believe we should be suggesting McLean until he prooves himself at this level. But lets be equitable, judge the three lads between now and the end of the season. The two best performers should have a plane ticket.

According to the Irish News this morning Trap is directly quoted as saying the following about McClean "We have time, one month, two months before we will write the list of players. We are considering him, 100%. We just don't want to put him under pressure. That is important for him, he's 22-year old, but we have other players who deserve to be in Coleman, duff, McGeady"

And that's the end of that discussion. :)

from bbc text

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Sunderland's best chance to equalise comes... and goes. Stephane Sessegnon starts the move, releasing Seb Larsson down the right and his pull-back finds James McClean arrving unmarked at the back post. He must score... but scuffs his shot wide of the target. Black Cats boss Martin O'Neill has his head in his hands, and so does every away fan at Stamford Bridge.

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It's all McClean apparently!

Everytime Jeff sends it over to Thommo you hear "MCCLEAN"