Eligibility Rules, Okay

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02/05/2011, 2:34 AM
DannyInvincible

I can find that he's played 6 minutes of a competitive European Under-19 Championship qualifying game for NI against Switzerland at least: http://www.uefa.com/under19/teams/pl...166/index.html

That was in October of 2010.

Oddly, this has his place of birth down as Dublin, but surely it can't be right: http://www.worldfootball.net/spieler...daniel-devine/

Then, there appears to be another Daniel Devine of Aston Villa and formerly of Crumlin United who is about half a year younger, which is probably the source of some confusion: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aston_V..._Academy_squad
02/05/2011, 9:21 AM
ifk101

Place of birth is Belfast according to wikipedia which would be consisted with the clubs he played youth football with.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_...8footballer%29
02/05/2011, 10:47 AM
tetsujin1979

It does appear that there are two Daniel Devine's (queue the terrace chants "there's only two Dan Devine's" and "we all dream of a team of Dan Devine's")
Preston's Daniel Devine is from Belfast according to his club profile: http://www.pnefc.net/page/YouthsProf...730302,00.html
Aston Villa's Daniel Devine is from Dublin: http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/ReservesP...091238,00.html
He was recently named in the U19 squad to play Croatia in February: http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=c...r-19&Itemid=12
But he didn't appear in either game
Most recent report of him I can find on Villa's site is from the first leg of the FA Youth Cup Semi Final against Sheffield United, he was sent off late on for an off the ball incident: http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/NewsDetai...317643,00.html

If anyone is an Aston Villa tv subscriber, there's an interview with him here: http://www.avfc.co.uk/page/TV/Interv...306814,00.html
02/05/2011, 11:03 AM
SwanVsDalton

Miles off topic but the Villa Devine is quite highly regarded - thought to be a first-teamer in the making and been a lynch-pin of successful Youth squads.
02/05/2011, 11:21 AM
Predator

Quote:

Originally Posted by DannyInvincible

Still, though, don't the IFA realise that repoaching players is twice as bad?!

Shane Duffy was in one of Sean McCaffrey's training camps 3 or 4 years back. Afterwards, having not received a call up he remained with the IFA for a while before switching - so Devine is not lost yet!

However, on the notion of poaching and repoaching, since the player could not have possibly made his own mind up, it must have been the IFA with their 'dirty tongue in his ear' (honestly, these terms are ridiculous) who persuaded him to go back - morally suspect crowd that they are!
03/05/2011, 1:46 AM
ArdeeBhoy

Quote:

all call-ups for all levels must include a note that accepting the call-up means that they are explicitly committing themselves to NI. Anyone not willing to make this public and signed commitment should not be picked until they are prepared to do so. If someone wants to bide their time, that is their perogative, but it should also be made clear that any acceptance of a call-up from any other international association from- and this is crucial- a NI born player will, regardless of FIFA rules, mean that they will not be selected for NI at any level again. We are not obliged to pick people who qualify for us, were born in NI and think that they can chop and change their allegience.

DI, Predator etc,
Would such a 'signed declaration', be legal, in the context of the CAS ruling?? As in if it wasn't a competitive game, would this actually be 'worth' anything??

Quote:

We also, unfortunately, need a public statement from the FAI that they will not select anyone who has played for NI at u19, u21 or full international level, regardless of their technical eligibility for the ROI. The IFA should publicly demand a meeting with the FAI on this issue, and in the name of continued cross-border co-operation, ask for this. If it is not forthcoming, then the IFA has to ask very loudly "Why not?" after all, it would not be conceding the principle that NI born players can play for the ROI team, merely that the FAI do not select those that have already freely and willingly represented us. At this point, all ties should be broken and the FAI treated just like any other foreign association. The IFA can take the moral high-ground on this issue if it chooses, and, again, it should be stressed that these players were happy enough to represent NI at various youth levels, but if the FAI (and it is a big "IF") has any sense of decency it should sign up to this

Again, this is contrary to the CAS Ruling? If you read certain posters on here, they are very emphatic that we are completely 'foreign', have no eligibility to 'merge' etc.
So the FAI should ignore this bleating. If the IFA so desperately want these players, cap them in a competitive game.
03/05/2011, 1:47 AM
Charlie Darwin

I think the purpose proposed was that if a player commits to NI and then decides to declare for the Republic, he'd do so knowing that the IFA wouldn't select him again.
03/05/2011, 8:57 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

If the IFA so desperately want these players, cap them in a competitive game.

Not quite as simple as that AB.

I'm a supporter of fast tracking FAI targets into the Northern Ireland Senior squad for competitive matches* - this is in full knowledge that it makes the player declare his hand, so to speak.

The player, of course, does not have to accept the invitation to the Senior squad.

*On the proviso that the player is good enough to make the step.
03/05/2011, 9:03 AM
ifk101

How does the IFA determine if a player is a "FAI target"?
03/05/2011, 9:14 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

How does the IFA determine if a player is a "FAI target"?

If, for example, they are aware the FAI are sniffing around.

Some good clues to be found on here from time to time.:D

Ferguson is an example - but we missed a trick there. Hopefully lesson learnt for next time.
03/05/2011, 9:18 AM
ifk101

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

If, for example, they are aware the FAI are sniffing around.

But how would they become aware?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Ferguson is an example - but we missed a trick there. Hopefully lesson learnt for next time.

He hasn't switched - or given any public indication of his desire to do so.
03/05/2011, 9:29 AM
Not Brazil

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

But how would they become aware?

He hasn't switched - or given any public indication of his desire to do so.

It's a small place.

I know he hasn't.

We do know the FAI are sniffing - He should have been called up by the IFA for the recent qualifiers. Unfortunately, in not doing so, I think the IFA missed a trick.

The next competitive game for Northern Ireland will come to late, I fear, for the IFA to put Ferguson's commitment to the test.

But - other opportunities will arise, and hopefully the lesson learnt.
03/05/2011, 9:35 AM
geysir

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

But how would they become aware?

They phone Don Givens.
03/05/2011, 9:42 AM
ifk101

Don would give them a straight answer, that's for sure.
03/05/2011, 1:07 PM
DannyInvincible

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy

DI, Predator etc,
Would such a 'signed declaration', be legal, in the context of the CAS ruling?? As in if it wasn't a competitive game, would this actually be 'worth' anything??

I'm not sure what the legality of such a declaration or an "agreement" with an individual would be under FIFA's rules. Whilst a signed legal document might be enforceable under the law of the state on a contractual basis, I'd be pretty certain that FIFA would sanction the IFA over such a move. I'm not sure what exact rule might apply in such an instance and don't really have time to go searching through the statutes right now for something that mightn't be there, but I can't imagine FIFA would look upon it favourably, as, essentially, it would amount to an attempt to transcend or subvert their rules, whichever way one wants to view it. Maybe it would fall under that "governmental interference" sphere to which FIFA staunchly object? Either way, it's unrealistic. If the declaration had a contractual standing, I'm pretty sure FIFA would clamp down on it immediately, whereas, if it was a mere declaration with some unofficial but no contractual standing, there'd be no legal obligation on the player to adhere to it. Once signed, they could always switch after receiving a cap. Devious it may be, but who would have the power to stop them?

In saying that, if the IFA were to pursue an "unofficial policy" of refusing to select players who had wavered or made a switch only to declare an interest in returning to the IFA's fold, I'd imagine they'd be perfectly within their rights to not select such a player, with or without some written agreement. There's no obligation on any association to select certain players, unless FIFA were to enforce some rather ambiguous and subjective rule in relation to selecting the strongest team available, like the one under which the Premier League punished Wolves/Mick McCarthy when he rested a few "first-teamers" for a game against Manchester United they were likely to lose anyway so they'd be in better shape for an approaching relegation battle. Weren't Blackpool punished for similar reasons this season? It's very dodgy territory though - I think the Premier League were way out of order there, all things considered - and would be virtually impossible to enforce in international football where the concept of a regular seasonal or registered team doesn't come into play beyond a once-off selection for each international. And what use would that be anyway if the unwelcome players concerned weren't included in the squad selection anyway?
03/05/2011, 1:09 PM
DannyInvincible

Quote:

Originally Posted by ifk101

How does the IFA determine if a player is a "FAI target"?

That's very subversive thinking there, but I like it. ;)
03/05/2011, 1:31 PM
DannyInvincible

I also meant to add that I don't think FIFA are obliged to adhere to CAS rulings, but they generally tend to as they'd appear less accountable that way than they already do. I'm open to correction on that though, but I am aware that the Gibralter Football Association, for example, applied for UEFA membership and had it refused after the Spanish association kicked up a fuss and threatened to boycott competition. This was in spite of Gibralter taking their case to CAS who ruled that they did in fact have valid grounds for UEFA membership and satisfied FIFA's criteria for confederation membership. More about it on Wiki here.

Quote:

On August 25, 2006, it was proposed that Gibraltar will become a provisional member of UEFA. However, a decision on granting this was postponed in October 2006. The decision was made on December 8, 2006 that Gibraltar will be made provisional members of UEFA: FIFA had announced two days earlier that their executive committee had "ruled that Gibraltar does not meet the statutory requirements to become a FIFA member", despite the fact that the Court of Arbitration in Sport had already ruled to the contrary.

On January 26, 2007 Gibraltar membership had been rejected by the UEFA Board with only 3 out of 52 votes supporting Gibraltar's claim. Spain was the strongest opponent to Gibraltar joining UEFA, even threatening to boycott any competition in which the Gibraltar national team would compete.

The issue has again been referred back to the Court of Arbitration for Sport for a ruling.
03/05/2011, 1:37 PM
DannyInvincible

It would appear then that FIFA will follow CAS rulings, unless one of the big boys object. If the IFA had the stature of the FA or FFF, FIFA might be more sympathetic to their cause - money talks and all that - although it wouldn't mean that the CAS ruling was incorrect, nor would it mean that it would be fair to disallow certain Irish nationals by birth the right to represent their country. It would merely be indicative of FIFA's rather corruptible nature.
03/05/2011, 2:21 PM
Predator

Quote:

Originally Posted by Not Brazil

I'm a supporter of fast tracking FAI targets into the Northern Ireland Senior squad for competitive matches* - this is in full knowledge that it makes the player declare his hand, so to speak.

A form of positive discrimination? Are the IFA going to open up the FAI's 'Big Book of Catholic names' in order to ween out the dual nationals?
03/05/2011, 2:45 PM
BonnieShels

That's very interesting re Gibraltar. I used to take a great interest in smaller non-FIFA nations and regions however I haven't in a while.
I wonder if the Spanish objection to their status is from the FEF or actually (which I suspect) from the Spanish government.
Seems like "political interference" to me.

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