LOI in Europe 2022

Look, hate to be another one to pile onto Rovers...but...


They have a 5-point lead in the League and their next game is at home to a mid-table team - they have plenty of wiggle room (as much as they could expect), I do not get why they would be so cautious and set up their team to lose. Rovers should have enough about them to challenge that Group. It boggles my mind that they gave it up. And it is giving it up - they just constantly make excuses to underperform.

They play Gent before they play Derry. I could understand it then - maybe the group would have decided- and Derry is a 6-pointer. But he has now already played that card... If you do it too often, you are making a mockery of the achviement of making it to the group stages.

Can Rovers fans say they will ever be competitive in a group stage in Europe under Bradley? The answer is quite frankly no... There is always an excuse not to push on. You can say a lot about Bradley, but you can not say that he and this Rovers team are 'ambitious'. Maybe their aim is just to make money. Get to the group, get the 4 million, forget about it then.

I think Rovers fans definitley disagree with me, but I feel this Euro campaign has been a net-negative for the league. So many poor poor showings by the Champions, it has made it harder for the media and neutral fans to take LOI in Europe seriously- You can see that in the TV coverage last night

(Positively though, it again shows how a quite ordinary league-winning team should always now be making the group stages in Europe now that the Conference was introduced.)

I think for Neutrals (well at least the Neutral neutrals i.e not CSAD) this idea that the league is wrapped up is easier to accept than for Rovers fans.
a 5 point lead with Derry to come to Tallaght is potentially only a 2 point lead i.e nothing so what appears comfortable from outside feels anything but from a Rovers perspective.
The league could and should have been wrapped up by now but its harsh to blame that on Bradser, Mandroiu leaving was a blow and Jack and Burkey have a total of nine 90 minute matches between them this season and 19 and 9 starts in total in the league.
That level of creativity being missing has brought us way back. Ritchie Towell has had a number of injuries as well and only 14 starts. With Jack Burkey and Mandroiu missing most of the season he should have been starting every game but instead has been trying to play his way into form coming back from injuries.
The exact creative hub of the team is basically missing the year.
Retaining the league is the priority and hopefully qualify for group stages again next year.
With a (Hopefully) fully fit creative fulcrum back in action and a couple of additions with this years money i think we can have a real cut at it next year with the league hopefully secured earlier.
No matter how big the squad though you cant take the 3 most creative players out of the side and expect it to perform to its top level.

Rovers away have been awful as we know but I would reserve overall judgement until after the groups have completed.
They?ve two home games to come and they are a different beast at home. I know the argument could be made that the Ludogorets and Ferencvaros ties were over by the 2nd legs but there is no way Ludogorets played to be 2 down in the 89th minute and Ferencvaros did not go out to lose so Rovers earned those wins in my book.
That Djurgarden point at home is looking better by the week and I think they?ll go for it at home to Molde and especially Gent, who aren?t all that great. If they finish on 4 or 5 points then the picture looks a lot more rosey then it does now.
Are they Dundalk 2016, no. Not sure they are even as good as Rovers 2020/2021 but winning the league again, making the groups and some points in the bag would have to be viewed as a very successful season.
Then can build again for targeting group stage qualification next season and improving on their displays from this year. I?d say we?d all like to have their problems.
Now I am off to wash myself as I feel very unclean after this post.

The reaction from the Rovers fans in this thread has been nearly as embarrassing as their team's away performances in Europe. Plenty of very valid points being ignored and shouted down for some reason.

I said this to a Rovers mate and I stand by it.

I`m not buying the holding players back for the league game on Sunday, thats b/s, with respect to Shels (hard working team), they were never going to beat Rovers in Tallaght on Sunday.

My point is, Rovers are not 'having a proper go' at the group stage, and that's disappointing for the league, almost (so far) just turning up and being ultra cautious, never making that extra effort to try and win a game. They have injuries, but who doesn't, they effectively have 2 teams, we effectively haven't had a striker since Mid August !!!

Dundalk in 2016 is the yardstick and will be hard for any Irish team to match those performances, maybe Rovers will beat 4 points in last 3 games, but I doubt it. High point was beating Macabi 2-1 and going second in the group that night, and still retaining the league.

Fast Forward to 2020, a patched up team, abs and utter chaos behind the scenes and still performed 'reasonable' in the group, yes lost all 6 but scored at least once in all games apart from Arsenal away, even that was 0-0 at 44 mins, again that team 'had a go' plus should have got a result in Vienna (lost 4-3) and then won the cup a month later, so even for all their limitations they could still battle on two fronts.

Back to the point, why have Rovers seemingly 'given up' on the group stage?

I wonder if Rovers’ stance would have been different had the league season gone from August to May instead of February to October.

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

I think for Neutrals (well at least the Neutral neutrals i.e not CSAD) this idea that the league is wrapped up is easier to accept than for Rovers fans.
a 5 point lead with Derry to come to Tallaght is potentially only a 2 point lead i.e nothing so what appears comfortable from outside feels anything but from a Rovers perspective.
The league could and should have been wrapped up by now but its harsh to blame that on Bradser, Mandroiu leaving was a blow and Jack and Burkey have a total of nine 90 minute matches between them this season and 19 and 9 starts in total in the league.
That level of creativity being missing has brought us way back. Ritchie Towell has had a number of injuries as well and only 14 starts. With Jack Burkey and Mandroiu missing most of the season he should have been starting every game but instead has been trying to play his way into form coming back from injuries.
The exact creative hub of the team is basically missing the year.
Retaining the league is the priority and hopefully qualify for group stages again next year.
With a (Hopefully) fully fit creative fulcrum back in action and a couple of additions with this years money i think we can have a real cut at it next year with the league hopefully secured earlier.
No matter how big the squad though you cant take the 3 most creative players out of the side and expect it to perform to its top level.

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Except you forget Rovers under O?Neill and Dundalk under Kenny had no problem performing on both fronts?why? Because they actually had competent managers who could adapt and get the best out of their squad, something Bradley isn?t capable of I?m afraid.

Perform to their top level?.not performing to that level is one thing?producing the sh!te Rovers have produced away from home this season is a whole other story, to describe last night as anything other than embarrassing is just deluding yourself. Yes they are missing some players here or there but it?s situations like this that truly test the strength in character of the players in the squad and the coaching ability of the those in charge and throughout this season we?ve seen that the squad is severely lacking on both fronts. Also I?m sick of all the bollock excuses, all we here from Bradley is ?we need to improve??where is the improvement? If anything last night is the worst of the worst so far, they made a pretty bang average Molde side look like a EPL side.

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Originally Posted by sbgawa

Your beekeeping teacher wouldn't like you using twitter either. :) :)

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Surely Bumble would be more his thing ? :cool:

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Originally Posted by CSAD

I follow specifically my local team Cork City but I support Irish teams in Europe like they were my own team, hence why I can be objective in how poor Rovers have been consistently compared to Dundalk for example. Hell even Rovers in 2011 that won in Belgrade, took to lead against Spurs, fought back against PAOK to almost snatch a draw?where has a Bradley side ever managed something like that in a game of relevance?

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Cork? Had you down as a bohs or dundalk man. Now I have to read your posts in a Cork accent. That's gona make them even harder to take to be honest.

And look you have some fair points. I've outlined before why I still like Bradley but it's obviously been poor away from home in Europe.

As for the league being wrapped up....lads...take a look at the form table and fixtures. The team Derry built is looking very strong. It ain't over by a long shot. We were great against a poor Sligo but otherwise awful the past few weeks and even months. There's criticisms there for the manager too but it's hard as a hoop to go in too strong when you know what he's going through.

While we're confessing here I'll admit that, for some reason, I thought CSAD was a Derry fan.

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Originally Posted by sadloserkid

While we're confessing here I'll admit that, for some reason, I thought CSAD was a Derry fan.

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Yeah I thought the same a few seasons back. But he's really jumping on rovers lately so I assumed a club with more of a.... complicated...relationship with us..I quite like Derry.

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Originally Posted by ger121

Rovers away have been awful as we know but I would reserve overall judgement until after the groups have completed.
They?ve two home games to come and they are a different beast at home. I know the argument could be made that the Ludogorets and Ferencvaros ties were over by the 2nd legs but there is no way Ludogorets played to be 2 down in the 89th minute and Ferencvaros did not go out to lose so Rovers earned those wins in my book.
That Djurgarden point at home is looking better by the week and I think they?ll go for it at home to Molde and especially Gent, who aren?t all that great. If they finish on 4 or 5 points then the picture looks a lot more rosey then it does now.
Are they Dundalk 2016, no. Not sure they are even as good as Rovers 2020/2021 but winning the league again, making the groups and some points in the bag would have to be viewed as a very successful season.
Then can build again for targeting group stage qualification next season and improving on their displays from this year. I?d say we?d all like to have their problems.
Now I am off to wash myself as I feel very unclean after this post.

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That winning bet has changed you ger.....

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Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

Cork? Had you down as a bohs or dundalk man. Now I have to read your posts in a Cork accent. That's gona make them even harder to take to be honest.

And look you have some fair points. I've outlined before why I still like Bradley but it's obviously been poor away from home in Europe.

As for the league being wrapped up....lads...take a look at the form table and fixtures. The team Derry built is looking very strong. It ain't over by a long shot. We were great against a poor Sligo but otherwise awful the past few weeks and even months. There's criticisms there for the manager too but it's hard as a hoop to go in too strong when you know what he's going through.

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I could forgive Bradley if performances away from home like last night were a once off but in reality they have become the norm. Even last night when by some miracle Rovers were in the game at HT he made literally no changes to the set up or line up to fix the obvious issues they have?dare I say it if they were any worse than last night you?d swear they were losing on purpose, it really was that bad and the only silver lining is realistically I don?t think it?s possible for Rovers to be that bad again as that really was rock bottom.

Derry may have built a strong squad but it?s still not as strong as Rovers and Derry had a mini collapse at one point this season and yet are still in with a realistic shout of the title, imagine if Derry didn?t have that collapse where they would be?

I understand what Bradley is going through and my criticism is nothing do with him as a person or what he?s going through as I would wish that on my worst enemy but at the end of the day in this line of work you simply have to be able to separate the two sides of the coin and the reality is this is a Rovers side that in totally inconsistent and in Europe their performances really have been totally unacceptable and any team that has any ambition of doing well needs to be asking these questions. We?ve seen Dundalk 2016 and Rovers 2011 who were able to compete on both fronts with Michael O?Neill and Stephen Kenny, with due respect that?s the level of manager Rovers need to be looking for if they want to compete on both fronts and take the next step and with all due respect Bradley is not even in the same stratosphere as these managers.

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Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

Yeah I thought the same a few seasons back. But he's really jumping on rovers lately so I assumed a club with more of a.... complicated...relationship with us..I quite like Derry.

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Just look at the Rovers results & performances in Europe and that will tell you why I?ve been jumping on them lately. And frankly if you were a true fan you?d want the very best for Rovers and if that?s the case you?d be equally critical of what we?ve seen in Europe this year.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

Just look at the Rovers results & performances in Europe and that will tell you why I?ve been jumping on them lately. And frankly if you were a true fan you?d want the very best for Rovers and if that?s the case you?d be equally critical of what we?ve seen in Europe this year.

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You're not going to get very far questioning other fans like that.

You want to have a decent debate without throwing out insults every couple of posts? PM me and I'll happily discuss things but the thread tends to descend into childish crap when you get involved so I'm not really interested in being a part of that. You're not alone to be fair, but you're always there.

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Originally Posted by ontheotherhand

You're not going to get very far questioning other fans like that.

You want to have a decent debate without throwing out insults every couple of posts? PM me and I'll happily discuss things but the thread tends to descend into childish crap when you get involved so I'm not really interested in being a part of that. You're not alone to be fair, but you're always there.

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It?s a valid line of questioning though, if a fan wanted the best for their club surely they would at the very least be open to criticism especially if it?s justified but many on here are just putting their fingers in both ears and yelling ?lalalalala? the minute anyone says anything negative.

The main reason it does is I keep engage with that particular Shamrock Rovers poster (Sgbawa) who?s talking about beekeeping when this is a football thread. Probably the best advice I?ve heard all day is stay clear of this individual

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Originally Posted by CSAD

It?s a valid line of questioning though, if a fan wanted the best for their club surely they would at the very least be open to criticism especially if it?s justified but many on here are just putting their fingers in both ears and yelling ?lalalalala? the minute anyone says anything negative.

The main reason it does is I keep engage with that particular Shamrock Rovers poster (Sgbawa) who?s talking about beekeeping when this is a football thread. Probably the best advice I?ve heard all day is stay clear of this individual

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Right so very interesting debate and sitting here on my fence i kinda see both sides. Myself and my pals all south stand aul lads to a man believe that winning league is the end all absolutely. Rovers have struggled for a lot of the year, yes some decent home performances in Europe but until that win in Sligo last weekend nothing great without being complete pants. Bradley sees this too and is off the same mind ehhh we are only ok but we can still win the league so thats where my priorities are is obviously his thinking. Bradley always talks about the clubs philosophy around it being built slowly with incremental improvements each year. Wining the league and qualifying for the group stages of European competition even with zero points sits snugly within in this ever upward curve. Wining the league maximises the clubs chances of group stage qualification next season and with a lot more revenue. Many of us aul lads may very well come off our comfortable fence next season.

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Originally Posted by CSAD

It?s a valid line of questioning though, if a fan wanted the best for their club surely they would at the very least be open to criticism especially if it?s justified but many on here are just putting their fingers in both ears and yelling ?lalalalala? the minute anyone says anything negative.

The main reason it does is I keep engage with that particular Shamrock Rovers poster (Sgbawa) who?s talking about beekeeping when this is a football thread. Probably the best advice I?ve heard all day is stay clear of this individual

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I've given you answers multiple times over the years on the topic of Bradley. Questioning me as a fan based on the responses you've gotten from others is exactly the sort of response that makes you difficult to discuss anything with. Now to be fair I did call you a troll a few pages back. Probably uncalled for but it's hard to tell sometimes.

On the European campaign I agree with some of what you've said. I just tend to reserve my criticisms of Rovers for Rovers people. But I do disagree that we should have been "giving it a go" in Molde just for the sake of the image of the league etc. That's grand for neutrals who would also love to see us lose the league but as a lifelong Rovers support and current member I want #20 and the league is by no means over. Getting to the groups was the target and I'd honestly have sacrificed that for the league. So everything else is a bonus. I don't like losing in the manner we have and that needs to be fixed. But I understand the situation. There are more games to come and the club is in a great position overall. That's down in large parts to the manager you think we should be sacking. So, I want what's best for my club. And I know better than you what that is, all due respect.

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Originally Posted by Kingswood Rover

Right so very interesting debate and sitting here on my fence i kinda see both sides. Myself and my pals all south stand aul lads to a man believe that winning league is the end all absolutely. Rovers have struggled for a lot of the year, yes some decent home performances in Europe but until that win in Sligo last weekend nothing great without being complete pants. Bradley sees this too and is off the same mind ehhh we are only ok but we can still win the league so thats where my priorities are is obviously his thinking. Bradley always talks about the clubs philosophy around it being built slowly with incremental improvements each year. Wining the league and qualifying for the group stages of European competition even with zero points sits snugly within in this ever upward curve. Wining the league maximises the clubs chances of group stage qualification next season and with a lot more revenue. Many of us aul lads may very well come off our comfortable fence next season.

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Rovers being average alone would be enough for them to win the league simply happy with only winning league is setting the bar for success as low as possible as anything less than that would be a tremendous failure given the squad and resources they have at their disposal. You can tell just from what the players do during these sort games that this Rovers team is a very poorly coached side that only get away with it in the league because they are still better than their opposition but badly gets exposed in Europe when the bar is raised.

Rovers haven?t even improved from the qualifying round, the beatings are only getting more and more embarrassing, just look at the goals they are conceding they aren?t even good goals they are just incredibly poor defending, some of the defending against Molde the other night was eye opening , almost like they had only met each other before the match started. It also shows how tactically naive Bradley is, he literally has only one way of playing and if it fails he does little to fix the issues, any half decent coach will exploit that which is why Rovers get their asses handed to them repeatedly. Molde aren?t as good as Gent or Ferencvaros yet the loss was far more humiliating.

How is it an upward curve, the only reason Rovers improved this year is because they got a much easier pathway to the Conference league, if they played the Flora side they played last year would the result be any better? The evidence suggests no as they are making the same basic mistakes consistently and ironically even then no one was calling out Bradley.

A lot more revenue for what? To get another good beating unless they get lucky and get an easy draw again? Go away from home when eventually they play a half decent side, make that half decent side look like a top team and then get a moral victory when the tie was already over and rinse repeat? There is 0 ambition at Rovers and that will eventually come back to bite them in the league when some of these old timers in the squad are past it and the rest of the league catches up.

And out of curiosity in what way have Rovers improved? Because I?m not seeing it, I?m fact I?m saying the same things as I was saying last year?it?s almost a carbon copy.

Decent game in oriel pk tonight. Which club is better suited to giving Europe a go next season I wonder. Dundalk really look toothless without Hoban up front.