Martin O'Neill and Roy Keane

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

The notion that the players wouldn't listen to Kenny is laughable. Most of the current squad haven't played a game in Europe whilst Kenny has managed a team there. Also he's an impressive and intelligent man when he speak. First impressions would be strong there. Lads that don't listen to him might be the same lads that allowed former Shams manager and his League One strikeforce press them to the hilt against NI.

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I don't think the players would deliberately snub Kenny, but maybe subconsciously he wouldn't command the instant respect of a bigger name. Whether our players have played European football or not isn't likely to matter too much, they play at a consistently higher level than the LOI, both in terms of publicity and actual standard, be it the PL or the Championship. I don't think it's unreasonable to fear the job would be too big for him, but it would be intriguing to find out.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I don't think the players would deliberately snub Kenny, but maybe subconsciously he wouldn't command the instant respect of a bigger name.

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Yes this is precisely what I meant.
In the same way some players may have subconsciously thought Kerr is used to managing kids, not senior internationals.

And where is the proof that Kerr wasn't able to command respect in the dressing room?

Kerr got a rough run of it. First campaign, inherited a team that had lost their first two matches and their best player. Managed to turn things around but had some bad luck in the final match.

Second campaign, missed out on playoffs by one point. In qualifier group with eventual World Cup finalists.

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Originally Posted by brine3

And where is the proof that Kerr wasn't able to command respect in the dressing room?

Kerr got a rough run of it. First campaign, inherited a team that had lost their first two matches and their best player. Managed to turn things around but had some bad luck in the final match.

Second campaign, missed out on playoffs by one point. In qualifier group with eventual World Cup finalists.

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In one of the away qualifiers Kerr was shouting instructions to one of our players ( I actually think it might have been Kilbane believe it or not, but I'm not 100% sure tbh) and said player turned around and said
" we know what were doing Brian" that's not professional respect

Our performances with the players we had might suggest it.
Throwing away two leads against Israel.
Not performing against Switzerland when we really needed to.

He didn’t have us motivated the way he was able to get the absolute best out of his youth teams.

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Originally Posted by brine3

And where is the proof that Kerr wasn't able to command respect in the dressing room?

Kerr got a rough run of it. First campaign, inherited a team that had lost their first two matches and their best player. Managed to turn things around but had some bad luck in the final match.

Second campaign, missed out on playoffs by one point. In qualifier group with eventual World Cup finalists.

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We didn't have bad luck in the final game, we were garbage away to the Swiss and lost 2-0 iirc. He had turned things around by winning the games he'd have been expected to win and got us into a position where two wins from our last two games would have qualified us. We got one draw.

Second campaign if we'd won both games v Israel we'd have topped the group and we would have were it not for his tactical calls, particularly in the home game when he replaced Robbie Keane with Kavanagh after Keane picked up a first half knock instead of going like for like.

When push came to shove and we needed results he couldn't deliver them. Bringing Roy Keane nack into the fold didn't pay off either, it p1ssed off a chunk of the squad and he wasn't the same player at that stage anyway plus was injured regularly.

The time was right for him to go, the problem was who the FAI brought in to replace him.

And I say all that as a Kerr fan.

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Bringing Roy Keane nack into the fold didn't pay off either, it p1ssed off a chunk of the squad and he wasn't the same player at that stage anyway plus was injured regularly.

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But is it Kerr's fault that he inherited a poisoned chalice? Keane did very good away to France where he played their midfield off the park.

I am a fan of Kerr. I do think he could have done better. He made some strange tactical decisions such as playing Zinedine in central midfield, which smacks of not wanting to take a risk so much that you actually end up taking a risk by doing something silly like that.

But people are saying he didn't have the respect of the players. When I saw Kerr's teams I didn't see a team where the manager had lost the dressing room.

go back and watch the 0-0 game against Switzerland. I still remember Andy Reid walking off the pitch when he was substituted, like he just didn't want to be there any more

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

go back and watch the 0-0 game against Switzerland. I still remember Andy Reid walking off the pitch when he was substituted, like he just didn't want to be there any more

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I was at that game. The fans had to roar at the players to get into the box for a last minute set piece we had. Its was horrendous to be there and see that

So was I, South terrace behind the goal.

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

In one of the away qualifiers Kerr was shouting instructions to one of our players ( I actually think it might have been Kilbane believe it or not, but I'm not 100% sure tbh) and said player turned around and said
" we know what were doing Brian" that's not professional respect

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Total myth, absolute bull.
The game was v Israel away, Kerr was actually roaring at Kilbane to get forward.

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Originally Posted by brine3

But is it Kerr's fault that he inherited a poisoned chalice? Keane did very good away to France where he played their midfield off the park.

I am a fan of Kerr. I do think he could have done better. He made some strange tactical decisions such as playing Zinedine in central midfield, which smacks of not wanting to take a risk so much that you actually end up taking a risk by doing something silly like that.

But people are saying he didn't have the respect of the players. When I saw Kerr's teams I didn't see a team where the manager had lost the dressing room.

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Kerr had no problem to gain the respect of star players like Roy Keane and others. I doubt if Kenny would have any hassle with feeling he had to earn the respect of current 'star' players with the likes of Burnley. But there is a question how well Kenny would adapt, not everything he has touched has turned to gold. Certainly I'd welcome another season at Dundalk :)

Personally Id like to see Kenny have another go "Across the Water". Id have no doubt he would be sucessful, especially when you see what Paul Cook has done.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Total myth, absolute bull.
The game was v Israel away, Kerr was actually roaring at Kilbane to get forward.

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Is that not pretty much what he said?

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Originally Posted by Fixer82

Is that not pretty much what he said?

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Keane had made a forward surge, Kilbane did not follow up to give support, Keane lost the ball, Kerr gestured and shouted to Kilbane that he should have supported Keane. I'm pretty sure Kilbane did not turn around and say "we know what we are doing Brian". Other wild interpretations of Kerr's instruction to Kilbane was that he was exhorting him not to go forward, as in don't take risks. I'm sure Chris took notes and recorded the incident on his clipboard.

Routine is biting hard and ambitions are low. Resentment is riding high and emotions won't grow.

Time for us to change our ways and for Martin and us to take different roads.

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Originally Posted by brine3

Routine is biting hard and ambitions are low. Resentment is riding high and emotions won't grow.

Time for us to change our ways and for Martin and us to take different roads.

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Before we get torn apart.

Again.

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Originally Posted by geysir

Keane had made a forward surge, Kilbane did not follow up to give support, Keane lost the ball, Kerr gestured and shouted to Kilbane that he should have supported Keane. I'm pretty sure Kilbane did not turn around and say "we know what we are doing Brian". Other wild interpretations of Kerr's instruction to Kilbane was that he was exhorting him not to go forward, as in don't take risks. I'm sure Chris took notes and recorded the incident on his clipboard.

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I see now what you were saying. Apologies

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

go back and watch the 0-0 game against Switzerland. I still remember Andy Reid walking off the pitch when he was substituted, like he just didn't want to be there any more

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Therefore Andy was disgruntled with Kerr? That’s one hell of a stretch. The team put in a spirited performance that night, the Swiss matched our vigour and we lacked guile. The image of Kerr from that night was the frustratingly conservative Kerr, going like for like with poor subs, sticking with 2 upfront going into the last 15 mins.

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra 69er

We didn't have bad luck in the final game, we were garbage away to the Swiss and lost 2-0 iirc. He had turned things around by winning the games he'd have been expected to win and got us into a position where two wins from our last two games would have qualified us. We got one draw.

Second campaign if we'd won both games v Israel we'd have topped the group and we would have were it not for his tactical calls, particularly in the home game when he replaced Robbie Keane with Kavanagh after Keane picked up a first half knock instead of going like for like.

When push came to shove and we needed results he couldn't deliver them. Bringing Roy Keane nack into the fold didn't pay off either, it p1ssed off a chunk of the squad and he wasn't the same player at that stage anyway plus was injured regularly.

The time was right for him to go, the problem was who the FAI brought in to replace him.

And I say all that as a Kerr fan.

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To this day I think Israel away and that late equaliser was a Sliding Doors moment in Irish football.

I thought we were unlucky at home to Israel and their cnut of a goalkeeper.

I don't think we were remotely unlucky at home to the Swiss. Harte missed an early sitter but that was it from then on. The Swiss players' body language said it all. Despite it being a perfect result for them they were disappointed. And Kerr took off Keane in that game when we needed a goal.

I love Kerr but despite any hard evidence all the talk was that he wasn't working well with the dressing room.