Stephen Ireland

Playing with 2 out and out wingers (2 from Duff, McGeady, SHunt, Keogh have started the qualifiers) then you're going to lose possession on the wings. That's the disadvantage of the formation and tactics Trapattoni has employed to date.
Kilbane was clearly targetted by the Bulgarians, and they scored twice in the two games. Unfortunately, apart from Damien Delaney, he's the best option we have there at the moment. If (IF) Stephen Kelly gets a run at Fulham, or Steve Finnan returns to fitness and form, then O'Shea could be shunted over there, but again he'll just be the latest square peg in that particular round hole.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Kilbane was clearly targetted by the Bulgarians, and they scored twice in the two games. Unfortunately, apart from Dean Delaney, he's the best option we have there at the moment.

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Presume you mean Damien, isn't Dean a keeper?

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Originally Posted by razor

Presume you mean Damien, isn't Dean a keeper?

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D'oh! Original post fixed. That's not the first time I've made that mistake either!

Charlton wants no return for Ireland

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Originally Posted by co. down green

Charlton wants no return for Ireland

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Jack didn't want a return for this bloke for about 2 years as well............. see how that one worked out.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/image...y_1990_512.jpg[/QUOTE]

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

I agree with most of this but, like Wolfie, wouldn't be quite as content with the centre midfield. The fact that there is competition for places there is only down to the fact that they are all very limited in what they can do. Obviously Stephen Reid could change this big time, not to mention the other fella!!

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Well Im thinking Andy Reid, Stephen Reid, Stephen Ireland,Darren Gibson, all possibly being fit and available for a place by the time the next qualifiers come around. Then there is the likes of Keith Andrews, Glenn Whelan & Liam Lawrence who although limited could do a job should three of the four mentioned be unavaliable. Considering that they are all Premiership players its hardly a weak position.

Our really weak position is left back, if we could somehow conjour up a quality left back i think id be confident enough of getting to south africa next summer. Kilbane has cost us four points in these series of qualifiers. We would be in a great position if we had them.

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Originally Posted by SallyMan

Well Im thinking Andy Reid, Stephen Reid, Stephen Ireland,Darren Gibson, all possibly being fit and available for a place by the time the next qualifiers come around. Then there is the likes of Keith Andrews, Glenn Whelan & Liam Lawrence who although limited could do a job should three of the four mentioned be unavaliable. Considering that they are all Premiership players its hardly a weak position.

Our really weak position is left back, if we could somehow conjour up a quality left back i think id be confident enough of getting to south africa next summer. Kilbane has cost us four points in these series of qualifiers. We would be in a great position if we had them.

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Well obviously it depends on whether you are talking about the next campaign or this one in relation to centre mid. Whelan and Andrews is a suspect pairing, PL players or not. Even in relation to the next campaign we can't take much for granted, Ireland might not return, Trapp might still be there and therefore Andy Reid might not and Steven Reid's fitness is anybody's guess.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

I also wouldn't share your assessment of Folan. Big and strong and can make a nuisance of himself but he has little else going for him. Did ok in the two appearances against Italy and Bulgaria but was by no means exceptional. To say he should be considered for a start instead of Doyle is nonsense imo who is a far superior player. Folan will struggle to hold down a place for himself in any team in the Premiership (as he did in a very poor Hull side last season). He'll probably have to drop down a division to get a regular starting berth next year and even then he won't set the world alight in the Championship.

Leon Best is a better long term option for the big man/little man striker combination role if we want to go down that route or possibly Cillian Sheridan if he continues to improve over the next season or two.

In any case that tactic is only useful in International football when used sparingly unless you have a top quality target man like Kohler that has other valuable attributes in his game (Kohler was also a top class goal poacher and finisher and not just a striker for someone more talented to play off).

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Ah he was brilliant in the two games hes played for Ireland. You must have a set against him to not see that!! He gave us an outlet time and time again Bulgaria, and often was able to hold off one or two players and feed it back to the nearest supporting player. Whilst this might not seem much to you, i thought it provided us with our only outlet, it ensured that we could boot the ball to safety and folan 9/10 if he got possesion he would hold it up and start an attack. He outshone Robbie Keane on both occasions and he set up the goal we scored against Italy, he also set up another great chance in that game which Robbie Keane nearly converted aswell, proving they have a chance of getting an understanding going.

Doyle may be a far superior player...which I would dispute having watched the two qualifiers (and its all im judging Folan on). But Folan offers you a completely different option imo, Doyle is more likely to try and do things on his own. Folan realises his strenghts and weaknesses and uses them intelligently, he doesnt try and go alone when he realises its not on and thats a main reason i think he would work well in the irish team.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Jack didn't want a return for this bloke for about 2 years as well............. see how that one worked out.

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Jack said he would not pursue Ireland, possibly in reference to Trap's alleged pursuit of Ireland.
Implying, that if Ireland wanted to be considered he would have to pursue Jack? or Ireland would have to wait until Jack felt he was needed.
Jack did not pursue O'Leary for years until injuries to the center halves forced the issue for Jack. Once O'Leary turned up and played then he was sort of back into the scheme of things

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Originally Posted by geysir

Jack said he would not pursue Ireland, possibly in reference to Trap's alleged pursuit of Ireland.
Implying, that if Ireland wanted to be considered he would have to pursue Jack? or Ireland would have to wait until Jack felt he was needed.
Jack did not pursue O'Leary for years until injuries to the center halves forced the issue for Jack. Once O'Leary turned up and played then he was sort of back into the scheme of things

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Yeah - O'Leary and Ireland is not a like for like situation.

O'Leary was effectively in enforced exile for 2 years as Charlton wouldn't select him.

Ireland absence is obviously self enforced.

My main point is that if Jack had have continued with his pig headed refusal not to select O'Leary, he'd never have taken that peno in 1990.

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

Well obviously it depends on whether you are talking about the next campaign or this one in relation to centre mid. Whelan and Andrews is a suspect pairing, PL players or not. Even in relation to the next campaign we can't take much for granted, Ireland might not return, Trapp might still be there and therefore Andy Reid might not and Steven Reid's fitness is anybody's guess.

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Im talking of this campaign, the next games arent until September i think it is so as I said all four could be available, the chances are that at least Gibson will be available for selection, so if continues the form he showed this year i would expect him to be a starter. I do honestly think that trap would favour a gibson / steven reid partnership in an ideal world, but with both being unavailble at different times in the campaign Whelan and Andrews have filled in ok. I think trap had to play with two holding midfielders to protect a weak defence imo, and because whelan / andrews are having to hold these positions it gives the opposing central midfield a lot of time on the ball, it also makes both players look bad as they are chasing the ball for 70% of the time. Its a tough job and both players have done it quite well. It is this system that will ensure we will not concede breakaway goals. The only problem with this system is kamikase kilbane.

“Stephen Ireland is a good, decent player but if he didn’t want to play for his country I wouldn’t pursue him,” said Charlton


That is it in a nutshell really. Why can't people se this and get over it?

Because he could be the difference between us qualifing or not qualifing. Also because, if he wanted, he would walk into the team. At the end of the day we want to go to South Africa, and with Stephen Ireland it would be a hell of a lot easier!

Ifs, buts and maybes; we should all know by now that club form doesn't always translate into international form. Look at S. Ireland's own teammate, Dunne. Not the greatest of seasons for his club (albeit with legitimate reasons why), but stellar for Ireland.

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Originally Posted by Keen2win

Because he could be the difference between us qualifing or not qualifing. Also because, if he wanted, he would walk into the team. At the end of the day we want to go to South Africa, and with Stephen Ireland it would be a hell of a lot easier!

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If we don't qualify, then so be it. It is a matter of principle at the end of the day. No room for mercenaries.

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Originally Posted by amaccann

Ifs, buts and maybes; we should all know by now that club form doesn't always translate into international form. Look at S. Ireland's own teammate, Dunne. Not the greatest of seasons for his club (albeit with legitimate reasons why), but stellar for Ireland.

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4 goals 6games not bad form

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Originally Posted by Keen2win

Because he could be the difference between us qualifing or not qualifing. Also because, if he wanted, he would walk into the team. At the end of the day we want to go to South Africa, and with Stephen Ireland it would be a hell of a lot easier!

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That's speculation, he would likely be a liability and may adversely affect the team spirit.

I'm happy to trust Trap's judgment and skill in handling this type of situation. That extends to managing morale & deciding how to accomodate him.

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Originally Posted by tricky_colour

That's speculation, he would likely be a liability and may adversely affect the team spirit.

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Thats specualtion too

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I'm happy to trust Trap's judgment and skill in handling this type of situation. That extends to managing morale & deciding how to accomodate him.

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..sums it up perfectly, in Trap we trust!