The Steve Staunton Discussion thread

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Originally Posted by citizenerased

I thinkl that pro-stan argument is laughable, how can you compare him in any sort of way to ferguson or charlton for than matter...He has not shown one single shread of any football managerial skills...He is a complete joke, a laughing stock!!! he actually is the personification of the circus that is the FAI. He looks like a caricature for god sake!!

Dont go feeling sorry for him either! he took the job understanding the consequence, and he is getting well paid aswell 500,000 a year...Stan your having a Giraffe!!!

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Well, I actually think he IS taking it on the chin quite well. He doesnt need my sympathy..thats correct. And he is paid good money. He knows the score if the results dont come and so do I. (they are coming though...just...)

In terms of Stan's managerial skills let me have a go at being positive....

1) He has brought a lot of young players in in the early stages...Doyle,hunt,douglas,elliot,mcgeady,mcshane ,ireland,stokes. You cant say he isnt giving youth a chance.....

2) He learns from his mistakes. He corrected the Carsley mistake. He corrected the right wing Ireland mistake on saturday. It was a mistake to defend the team after San Marino and he corrected that this saturday by being more honest.

3) He is generally saying very little to the media which is sensible given that they rip everything to shreds...

4) He is developing a team that gives their best. I know in places they didnt - Cyprus,Holland, Chile.. But I disagree that they didnt try against Germany, Czech, San Marino or Wales. I can support a team that tries.

In terms of negative managerial style...

1) He has made some selection mistakes but in my opinion you can atleast see why he does it at some times.... like Finnan is better than O'Shea so his position at right is sacrificed to suit O'Shea... Carsley was left out for a younger player (he likes youth). The media thing was defensive after San Marino because he'll have thought the win was the win... But he has corrected these things.............

2) He isnt charismatic as a speaker............SO WHAT EXACTLY??

3) He's had some bad results. This is his biggest negative.... Chile, Holland, Cyprus and San Marino were bad........

But I want him to recover, so I'm trying to be positive....it really knocks things back to have to change a manager.... I'd rather he came through this.

Comparing him to Jack and Alex Ferguson seems daft, but I'm talking about early in their jobs. Jack was ridiculed back then. And Ferguson would have had the look of a walking disaster at that moment when he was about to be sacked. They came through those moments and I hope Stan does.

I wish he would turn a corner and just keep walking to the next corner and the next one after that and not stop until he's back in Walsall where he belongs

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I dont want him to go into tactics with the media. That way the slovaks will find out our gameplan if we have any.

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i don't either but i'm sure the team do! badly worded by me above.

on charisma, if he can't open his mouth without him sounding like a moron when talking to the media does anyone really think he can talk in the dressing room without the players having a little giggle at his expense. name any good manager and i would safely think that they showed a bit of savvy when talking to the media. it is about general communication ability - stan don't got it

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Originally Posted by craig7042

Comparing him to Jack and Alex Ferguson seems daft, but I'm talking about early in their jobs. Jack was ridiculed back then. And Ferguson would have had the look of a walking disaster at that moment when he was about to be sacked. They came through those moments and I hope Stan does.

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Do you not think the fact that Charlton and Ferguson had previously shown themselves to be good managers maybe have something to do with them getting a little bit more time to turn it around.

And your explaining of the O'Shea/Finnan thing makes you sound like Stan. Finnan plays right-back for his club and is one of the best right back in the English Premiership. O'Shea has played over 100 times for Man United at left back, but sure that Ferguson fella wouldn't know what he's doing would he. :rolleyes:

The poor guy lacks in my opinion the three things that make a good manager.

• Charisma
• Conviction
• Communication

Clough had all three in buckets, Mourinho, Ferguson Wenger have it in their own unique styles.

The most knowledgable player in the world (and Stan has a lot of miles under his belt as a player) will never have succeed in management if they are lacking in these basic skills.

His tone and demeanour carry no authority. If he cant communicate with the media, how does he communicate and motivate the players. Make no mistake about it, our players need to be motivated. Its obvious Croke Park and the jersey isnt enough.

I take no pleasure in watching him fail in such a public humiliation. It reminds me of the Christians being fed to the lions. Who would have turned down the oppurtunity to become manager of his country?

Hes in a corner now and hes trying to fight back but its pitiful. I honestly dont think that the media have been grossly unfair and has been created by Stan himself. As a lifelong servant of Ireland Id like to say thanks for the memories Stan but if you could do one more thing for your country - be honest.

Just picked out a few managers roles on monster, the competencies are repeating themselves.

To be a manager you...

...are responsible for the success of your team/dept/organisation
...are accountable for the failings of your team/dept/organisation
...must drive the team/dept forward and lead by example
...must identify shortcomings and rectify

To be a manager you must have...

...excellent communications and interpersonal skills
...demonstrated leadership and organisational skills
...a proven track record in previous managerial role(s)
...ability to encourage and motivate staff and maintain high morale

sums it up Dawn Run

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Originally Posted by charliesboots

O'Shea has played over 100 times for Man United at left back, but sure that Ferguson fella wouldn't know what he's doing would he. :rolleyes:

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O'Shea hasn't played anytihng like 100 games at left full for united.

You're opinions are your own... I'm just highlighting a change in stans attitude that I think is better than it was.

He's an easy target. Repeatedely highlighting his limits as a manager achieves what exactly?? Someone go off and print the criteria for a supporter there while your at it.

Cheering on the opposition? What's that sh!t about? Sitting at your keyboards spouting the gospel according to Dion Fanning. Too many sheep on this board! :rolleyes:

Stan should never have got the job. That is clear. The rest of you are just tools of the tabloids and are playing firmly into the hand of those in the FAI that are playing the deflection game at the minute.

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his only form of communication with the supporters is through the media. 30 seconds! is that all we are worth

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touché

An ignorant move by a desperate man. Cascarino pointed out he's trying to create some siege mentality that just never really existed. People want to back him but he just makes it so hard. He has a smug side to him that makes you just want to get sick

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Originally Posted by Soko

An ignorant move by a desperate man. Cascarino pointed out he's trying to create some siege mentality that just never really existed. People want to back him but he just makes it so hard. He has a smug side to him that makes you just want to get sick

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Thats the awful thing. I loved Stan as a player, always available, always gave 100%, played several positions to an excellent standard and was a WC captain. You wanted him to succeed but now I just want him to go before he does anymore damage to the team and his own reputation as a servant to Ireland. I'm not enjoying this one bit but I'm also not going to bury my head in the sand regarding his potential as a manager because there isn't any.

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Originally Posted by craig7042

Comparing him to Jack and Alex Ferguson seems daft, but I'm talking about early in their jobs.

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Craig -it was you who dragged up a Ferguson and Charlton comparison.
I merely took you to the cleaners on it.

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1) He has brought a lot of young players in in the early stages...Doyle,hunt,douglas,elliot,mcgeady,mcshane ,ireland,stokes. You cant say he isnt giving youth a chance.....
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...which gives him a convenient fig leaf for when it all goes tits up. meanwhile -others who probably deserve a call up but aren't fresh faces are left back at their clubs.

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1)
2) He learns from his mistakes. He corrected the Carsley mistake. He corrected the right wing Ireland mistake on saturday. It was a mistake to defend the team after San Marino and he corrected that this saturday by being more honest..

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If the guy learned from his mistakes there wouldn't have been a Cyprus, and if he learned from Cyprus then there wouldn't have been a San Marino. he learns jacksh1t.
He had to be dragged kicking and screaming on the Carsley issue.

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3) He is generally saying very little to the media which is sensible given that they rip everything to shreds....

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As it happens I agree with keeping a healthy distance from the media, the print media in particular and the big letters print media especially. Do I think Stan is doing it strategically or spitefully (the latter being meat and potatoes to them)?!?! What do the rest of ye reckon?

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4) He is developing a team that gives their best. I know in places they didnt - Cyprus,Holland, Chile.. But I disagree that they didnt try against Germany, Czech, San Marino or Wales. I can support a team that tries.

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I believe the team is trying, they're trying to play football while weighted down with a manager who evidently cannot manage and does not manage.

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

He's an easy target. Repeatedely highlighting his limits as a manager achieves what exactly?? Someone go off and print the criteria for a supporter there while your at it.

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A supporter is not a job with set criteria of which your supposed to succeed in. A supporter does not get paid to watch this stuff, a supporter pays. As such a supporter is entitled to express his opinion of the product he's paid for.

If me seriously doubting Stans ability as a national coach means I'm a sheep then so be it. But going on what I've seen over the last 13 months or so I think I'm well within my rights to say I'm not happy with a kicking by Holland, a kicking by Cyprus, a defeat by Chile, a dreadful last minute victory over the mighty San Marino, and a poor and disjointed 1-0 win over a dreadful Wales side. The only positive was the Czech game which was not a good footballing performance but just gutsy, and the Czechs were clearly happy to come away with a point.

I don't think it's so much Stan turning a corner as maybe a few players getting together on the side and saying "Jaysus lads, the Gaffer hasn't a clue, we're goin to have to work out our own tactics."

A bit like when you were playing Under 12s Gaelic and the manager never bothered to turn up and you had to get one of your supporters to pick the team and he said "ah, just play where yiz usually play".

Somethin like that.

There's a fine line between criticism and insults, and the tone of the posts are in keeping with the papers almost to within the day of print.. That's why they're sheep.

Some people have even taken to turning on Mick Burn FFS as if he's the root cause. They turn on Stan for doing the very thing they turned on Brian Kerr for not doing.

I also seriously doubt the mans ability as a coach. I just don't see the point of post after post of his limits at this stage. Spare me the Walsall tea boy shpeel or the sarcastic Gaffer :rolleyes: comment.

I'm seeing a change is all.... And a win+performance tomorrow will turn this whole thing round.

Does ANYONE back him?

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

There's a fine line between criticism and insults, and the tone of the posts are in keeping with the papers almost to within the day of print.. That's why they're sheep.

Some people have even taken to turning on Mick Burn FFS as if he's the root cause. They turn on Stan for doing the very thing they turned on Brian Kerr for not doing.

I also seriously doubt the mans ability as a coach. I just don't see the point of post after post of his limits at this stage. Spare me the Walsall tea boy shpeel or the sarcastic Gaffer :rolleyes: comment.

I'm seeing a change is all.... And a win+performance tomorrow will turn this whole thing round.

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I don't agree and you insinuating that most people on here are sheep and can't think for themselves which is wrong and ironically enough a personal insult.

The press are merely reflecting our views. You'll always get a few that lash out the personal insults but thats life and they're usually a minority. But like I said plenty of times most of the reporting from the decent papers has been fair and I haven't seen a lot of personal abuse in here just a lot of people disillusioned with what they're seeing and rightly so.

I don't really understand what you want, is it for people to have gotten over San Marino, Wales and Cyprus and to now be stupidly positive about Stan despite the evidence? Most people have convictions and stick by them.

I should have said the tone of SOME of the posts...

I don't think most people here are sheep. But there's no escaping the fact that there are a number that are. The clowns having a pop at Mick Byrne is an example...

Those around stan, within the FAI and even former players and colleagues reckon Irish fans expectations are too high and that we haven't got the squad we've had in decades past. I think it's a huge disservice to the irish fan. We're painfully aware we have'nt got the players we've had in the past but the question we're asking now is the same one we asked when stan was appointed last year "Is a man with no experience the right man to get the best out of a limited bunch of players?".

Now as things stand there's an astute level of deflection going on within the FAI citing poor feeling amongst the supporters down to media manipulation. Now baring this in mind take a look at the majority of posts over the last two or three weeks here and get back to me and tell me some of them don't give credence to what John Delaney, Kevin Moran, Ronnie Whelan has said about Irish fans.

I think they do. The whole debate has gone from the fact that Stan should never have been appointed in the first place to picking away at the man, repeatedly, post after post after post, insults and so on. All very English tabloid.

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

I should have said the tone of SOME of the posts...

The clowns having a pop at Mick Byrne is an example...

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Mick Byrne is a tool, people are entitled to have a go at him.
Have you ever gone to him with an injury? He is useless.
What other physio in world football is as well known as him? They normally just sit there and do thier job
The one or two you know the name of are brilliant at what they do and not just some sort of publicity seeking clown

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

I should have said the tone of SOME of the posts...

I don't think most people here are sheep. But there's no escaping the fact that there are a number that are. The clowns having a pop at Mick Byrne is an example...

Those around stan, within the FAI and even former players and colleagues reckon Irish fans expectations are too high and that we haven't got the squad we've had in decades past. I think it's a huge disservice to the irish fan. We're painfully aware we have'nt got the players we've had in the past but the question we're asking now is the same one we asked when stan was appointed last year "Is a man with no experience the right man to get the best out of a limited bunch of players?".

Now as things stand there's an astute level of deflection going on within the FAI citing poor feeling amongst the supporters down to media manipulation. Now baring this in mind take a look at the majority of posts over the last two or three weeks here and get back to me and tell me some of them don't give credence to what John Delaney, Kevin Moran, Ronnie Whelan has said about Irish fans.

I think they do. The whole debate has gone from the fact that Stan should never have been appointed in the first place to picking away at the man, repeatedly, post after post after post, insults and so on. All very English tabloid.

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Yeh course they do, like I said there'll always be a minority and likewise there's one or two (definitely one) that think Stan can turn all this around. Most of us are still entitled to post what we feel and that what we feel happens to be reflected in the press is probably because that's the way things are. I'm not going to be stupidly positive for the sake of it though and if the press have the same sentiments its hardly my fault.

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Originally Posted by hoops1

Have you ever gone to him with an injury? He is useless.

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I have, many, many moons ago, when Rovers were at Milltown. I had a knee injury. Mick sits me up on the table and gets out some gel and an ultra-sound! Me and this other player are looking at each other as if to say,WTF. I'm told by Mick that I may have a torn ACL. End up going to Naas hospital and guess what? He was right! Just my story about Mick Byrne. Say what you want, but he had my diagnosis correct.

* Just glad I wasn't pregnant! :D *

A ****ing witch doctor could diagnose an ACL.
He didnt fix you Naas Hospital did

On reflection of the wide and varied thoughts in this thread, I sincerely think that the greatest manager on the planet would have his work cut out with any of the international teams of these west european Islands:eek:

All the players involved are millionaires or are about to be, and as Marvin Hagler once said, "Its hard to get up at 5am for a 10 mile run when you are wearing Silk Pyjamas!" The drive isnt there, even in the so called european countries where players remain in education rather than putting all thier effort into sporting sucsess.

God himself would have problems motivating this lot, would rather prefer being in nightclubs with the WAGS rather than play international football.

The club is where the cash is. Half a million euros from the players fund wouldnt cover thier wages for playing in a championship finals. So why bother? Pride in the shirt? Show me the money!:(

Slovakias players will bust a gut tommorrow night as they are in the shop window of the premiership. Simple as that.

Sad

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

I'm seeing a change is all.... And a win+performance tomorrow will turn this whole thing round.

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I agree. On Sports tonight this evening the texts quoted were far more balanced with people speaking out now against the negativity and abuse of the team. People want improvement but they dont want what we've been getting - simple anger and abuse...

Stand up fo rthe boys in green tomorrow night and you just never know. They could get the win you know....I have a feeling in me stomach!

www.theboysingreen.blogspot.com

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Originally Posted by dr_peepee

I should have said the tone of SOME of the posts...

I don't think most people here are sheep. But there's no escaping the fact that there are a number that are. The clowns having a pop at Mick Byrne is an example...

Those around stan, within the FAI and even former players and colleagues reckon Irish fans expectations are too high and that we haven't got the squad we've had in decades past. I think it's a huge disservice to the irish fan. We're painfully aware we have'nt got the players we've had in the past but the question we're asking now is the same one we asked when stan was appointed last year "Is a man with no experience the right man to get the best out of a limited bunch of players?".

Now as things stand there's an astute level of deflection going on within the FAI citing poor feeling amongst the supporters down to media manipulation. Now baring this in mind take a look at the majority of posts over the last two or three weeks here and get back to me and tell me some of them don't give credence to what John Delaney, Kevin Moran, Ronnie Whelan has said about Irish fans.

I think they do. The whole debate has gone from the fact that Stan should never have been appointed in the first place to picking away at the man, repeatedly, post after post after post, insults and so on. All very English tabloid.

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I 'm not sure I know where you are coming from, do me a favor and watch Norn Iron. I saw their game against Spain and they were awesome, organized, commited and yet there is hardly a single Norn Ireland player who would get into our first 11. We really don't have a "limited bunch of players", I think we have the players to really compete for qualification. We have however serious management problems, that is obvious. Stan has given no indication that he actually knows what he is doing and he has been in charge of two of the most appalling performances an Ireland team has ever put in. I don't blame him as much as I blame the FAI but his amateur and childish behavior cannot go unremarked.

The criticism comes with the territory, and it is born out of frustration and not malice. I do get tired of people critcising the players though.

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Originally Posted by Qwerty

I 'm not sure I know where you are coming from, do me a favor and watch Norn Iron. I saw their game against Spain and they were awesome, organized, commited and yet there is hardly a single Norn Ireland player who would get into our first 11. We really don't have a "limited bunch of players", I think we have the players to really compete for qualification. We have however serious management problems, that is obvious. Stan has given no indication that he actually knows what he is doing and he has been in charge of two of the most appalling performances an Ireland team has ever put in. I don't blame him as much as I blame the FAI but his amateur and childish behavior cannot go unremarked.

The criticism comes with the territory, and it is born out of frustration and not malice. I do get tired of people critcising the players though.

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Agree with a lot of that. This business that we don't have the players is a real cop out, all we need is some leadership. But that also includes the senior players in the squad. Unfortunately apart from Given we've no talisman and its a bit tough for him to influence whats happening outfield.

Excellent post Qwerty. Staunton is simplty not getting the tactical basics right. His actual knowledge of football seems embarressing and his interviews with the media enforce this view. The job is way to big to him and i pray that he realises that sooner or later. Unfortunatly his 100+ caps for us will now be forgotten due to his complete ineptness at management

Easy to blame the manager, but even with my limited knowledge of football, I would have picked a team and managed this game better than the inept Staunton.

I spent the last 30 minutes shouting at the television becasue I could tell what was going to happen. It was obvious by the way we were playing, like the game was won with the second goal.

O'Shea and Kelly played out of position. Gibson put on before Reid. McGeady rightly substituted but where was Reid and where was Hunt?

We created nothing, Doyle's goal was a one in a million. Stan learned nothing from the Denmark performance, absolutely nothing. Get rid of him and quickly.

Slovakia are a sh!t side, with the quality we have we should have had no problem with them. 2 points dropped and sorry Stan, but this is down to you.

I have to totally agree here. some people may say that we would not be even writing this if we had not conceded in the last minute, but from the start, we could see that there were concerns about the Stauntons selections. Can't tell you how disapointed i was that Stephen Hunt did not play, along with Shane Long, however Stan felt that an untried Gibson and a League one player in Douglas would do a better job than Reid or Hunt. Just can't believe whats just happened here against an awful Slovakian side. I could sit here all night and go on about Staunton. I just feel sorry for Dunne, Given, and Doyle, the only players of quality we really have. John O'shea and kilbane are a disgrace

Reid and Hunt would of been better options in anyones book. As for playing both full backs in their wrong sides again. What is he playing at!!!!!

I thought kilbane was pretty decent actually.

o'shea looked out of his comfort zone at right back mind you.

personally I thought slovakia looked alright. not great but alright. If we want to qualify we should beat them but I'm not convinced we should take it for granted.

shame about the result.

I thought Kilbane actually had a good game other than fcu!<in around with the ball by the corner flag. Only one man to blame for this defeat and he's from Dundalk.

Did anyone else have a sickening feeling in the last half an hour that an equaliser was sure to come? If we did get out with a win we would have been lucky, lucky, lucky.

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Originally Posted by dynamo kerry

I thought kilbane was pretty decent actually.

o'shea looked out of his comfort zone at right back mind you.

personally I thought slovakia looked alright. not great but alright. If we want to qualify we should beat them but I'm not convinced we should take it for granted.

shame about the result.

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Its a shame for everyone in the country about the result.
I just personally think Kilbane was shocking, I think he's shocking in general, plenty of heart fair enough, but absolutely no ability, just like O'shea. The small thing about Kilbane annoy me so much like in the first half when he turned back into a Slovak player when he had nearly 35 yards infront of him in the centre of the park. Andy Reid would have offered a lot more tonight yet could'nt even get a run from the bench along with Hunt or Long. Very disapointed in Stan, particularly after the excellent result and promise we showed in Denmark.

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Originally Posted by dynamo kerry

shame about the result.

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Agree totally with the OP

To quote non-league manager Andy Preece coming off after a similar match last season:

"What good's a f****** point?"

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Originally Posted by rocketballs7

Its a shame for everyone in the country about the result.
I just personally think Kilbane was shocking, I think he's shocking in general, plenty of heart fair enough, but absolutely no ability, just like O'shea. The small thing about Kilbane annoy me so much like in the first half when he turned back into a Slovak player when he had nearly 35 yards infront of him in the centre of the park. Andy Reid would have offered a lot more tonight yet could'nt even get a run from the bench along with Hunt or Long. Very disapointed in Stan, particularly after the excellent result and promise we showed in Denmark.

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I do think we're quite a limited side in many ways but I must admit I did think the first sub was going to be reid and then I though ok, he'll bring on hunt. It never occured to me that douglas could come on and as for Gibson...

Im not entirely convinced about andy reid but surely hunt should have started. I could see myself that McGeady was poor after 20 mins and should have been taken off at half time. Douglas my lord god is playing league one football for leeds and if thats changed it shouldnt have because he is shocking bad and the young lad gibson- its a horrid pity he didnt play with northern ireland he is so bad. O shea is a disgrace the man is dire. Stephen Kelly should have cleared their first goal off the line but showed a complete lack of agression or spunk to stick his head in there and get rid of it. The attacker you will notice didnt shirk his responsibility. Apart from Stan completely out of his depth which is obvious to the extreme the players themselves know how to flippin hold out or kill off a game with a minute to go. There was so much wrong with the performance you could be here all night analyzing it. We will be beaten wednesday playing with that team and with that set up. I could see after 10 mins even after our goal we wouldnt win. McGeady and Kilbanes crossing was Eircom League standard in fact its doing a disservice to the Eircom League John Reilly and Jamie Duffy from my team could deliver better balls into the box then they did. Kilbane is such a trier and a work horse with guts and determination but he simply isnt good enough. Hunt should have played and of all stans errors tonight that remains the most galling. That and the fact he persisted with McGeady so long and his subs. It was ridiculous. Stan is not an imbarrasment to Ireland he is an imbarrasment to himself!!

Totally sick about the result. I got that feeling that it was all going to end unhappily when Staunton patted Doyle's back when he came off. Looked like he thought the game was won. A good manager wouldn't be acting like that. Bloody hell :rolleyes:.

It's hard to know where this is going to go. Giles made a good point about the midfield in that the last time McGeady, Ireland and Kilbane played together was in Cyprus. He does a shrewd analysis at times. Douglas coming on was a waste of time. Needed a player to relieve the defence. The only answer there is Hunt or maybe Long, not Douglas. How does Staunton make these decisions?

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Originally Posted by Sonic

Stephen Kelly shold have cleared there first goal off the line but showed a complete lack of agression or spunk to stick his head in their and get rid of it. The attacker you will notice didnt shirk his responsibility.

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I must agree, if they are not going to give it all, they should not be wearing the shirt. As for O'shea he looked like Billy Elliot trying to block down the shot for the Slovak 2nd goal :( . What annoys me most is Stauntons smile from ear to ear when Doyle came off in the 88th minute. Remind me , is'nt there 90 minutes in a game of football?????????? And to not know this in international football, let alone us being Ireland and our disgraceful record of conceding last minute goals, is inexcuseable.

He showed his inexperience tonight with his substitutions- I thought it seemed like he thought the game was won and decided to give the fringe players a run out.

Christ, that slovakia team were bad and they showed it in the 1st 15 mins until we sat back and gave them confidence..Then they started to hit that big man up front for them called o"sheasky..he was there main threat..
Staunton, please go after czech game..delaney, well i would get banned here if i spoke my mind..and i am going to prague wed:o