That's fair enough but it seems like we are showing no respect for our national side by allowing Cannon to dictate all aspects of this decision regardless of how good a player you think he isQuote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
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That's fair enough but it seems like we are showing no respect for our national side by allowing Cannon to dictate all aspects of this decision regardless of how good a player you think he isQuote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I don't want to derail this thread but Grealish always knew he was going to play for England. The primary reason that he played for Ireland was because we stretched him at older age groups and he could always move to England. The secondary reason is his strong family ties, although I think it is very clear that his father pushed him to play for England. If you think that him dragging granny from Sneem over for a day out with the rest of his family to collect his under 21 poty award whilst knowing he was going to jump ship is a sign of respect then fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
I think Cannon is a little like Rice in that the England option is only becoming apparent now. His decision is far more precarious than Grealish's was ever. And more precarious than Rice's post 3 friendly caps because Rice knew he was nailed on for England by then.
Honestly, I don't see much of a difference between the three and think that as they qualify for Ireland and definitely feel partly Irish then they deserve the caps they have all received (so far for Cannon).
Cannon should have tipped away with our 21s while he was able. I have heard or read his agent (Moyes' brother) is a fiery character (can't remember where) so maybe he jumped the gun a little. Maybe Leicester would have paid more if he were an England under 21 cap was his reasoning.
Grealish behaved really well with rhe issue, rice behaved terribly and Cannon is also behaving terribly. .Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Was Grealish all that much better really ?
Anyway if Cannon came on board in a year or two and played well for us ~ All would be forgiven ~ That's football.
If you think of the financial possibilities of playing for England ~ Well ? !
Also it has got harder for smaller countries ( except for one or two exceptions ) to compete against the bigger / stronger nations.
As a striker would you want to be playing in front of the Irish midfield of the moment ?
If Ferguson turns out to be a super-star ( here's hoping ) then we might get a bit of the Gareth Bale affect that he had for Wales i.e Attracting a few who might be between two minds.
Sadly, in this day and age the attractions ( financially and otherwise ) of playing international football for England far outweigh anything we have to offer.
As I say ~ ~ Sadly, we have to be realistic and, not be burning boats too easily on players with potential. I wish it wasn't so but that's the way it is.
How is Cannon behaving terribly?Quote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
He’s not. I think Liamoo is being a little overly sensitive to the situation - which is fine. He’s asked for time to make a decision that will materially impact his career. It’s not disrespectful and it’s not terrible in my opinion. Neither his nor Grealish’s behaviour is anywhere as close to contemptible as was Declan Rice’s. They don’t belong in the same conversation in fairness. Hopefully we can swing him our way as I agree he looks a real top prospect while also not quite looking (yet) like a nailed on English multi-cap player.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Are you serious? Rice took senior caps, 3 of them before Southgate fluttered his eyelashes at him. Anyone with a moral compass or shred of decency would have done one of two things 1) turned down the senior caps or 2) told Southgate that the FA missed their chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Fair enough. but I sort of remember the Grealish saga going on for a long time as well. And I was more comparing Grealish with Cannon.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
I think the fervour and Impetous of a new regime is a bigger hook and “jumping on” point than what we’ve had in recent years. That needs to be sorted soon if it’s to be capitalised on with regards to dual nationality players with other options.
As for Cannon, I’m not happy with him but if he plays hard to get for the new mangers first squad then he can definitely get ****** there after.
You can't force a dual eligible player to play for us, or any player for that matter. I would say it would be more disrespectful to the national side to start putting unnecessary deadlines in front of players and losing their services as a result. Give the man a bit of time and space to make his decision. If he goes then that's up to him. I'd rather he took the step back and made his decision at this point rather than doing what Rice did and taking senior caps when he wasn't fully committed.Quote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
In terms of the three I would rank them as follows:
Rice - took Ireland senior caps when not fully committed and then defected, disgraceful in my view.
Grealish - appears to have taken Ireland underage caps purely for career advancement purposes, knowing full well that unless things went wrong for him he was going to play for England. Poor form if true, but at least he made his decision before taking any senior caps so less of a disgrace than Rice.
Cannon - accepted Ireland caps thinking there was no interest from England. Had his head turned by someone when he was on the verge of a senior call up and has taken a break from international football to allow him time to make a decision. Not ideal, but completely different to the other two cases.
And bottom of that scale you could add Patrick Bamford - one u18 cap, but quickly decided his heart wasn't with us. I don't recall him stringing us along, and he might be an England one-cap wonder but I'm sure it means more to him than 50 with us. If Cannon prefers to play for England, I'd rather he decided now. Better for him to put the issue to bed and put his focus into getting that call-up. That said, I hope he stays with us. I'm just not optimistic he will.
If it were my son, my advice would be pick a horse and back yourself to do well with them. Get rid of the distraction. Commit to one or the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
I do recall Jack Grealish in the middle of the whole saga saying 'I look forward to pulling on the green jersey again'. Which was a stupid thing to say when he'd no intention of playing senior for us.
I also really hearing a story of him in an underage Irish camp during a team building exercise where everyone had to share their hopes and dreams for the future. Jack stunned the room when he said his dream was to one day play for England senior team.
But because he was such a good player and affecting games so much for us, the manager didn't pull him up on it.
First time I heard that one - any source ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
If it happened Grealish should have been benched on the spot.
The one player that openly declared he used the Irish underage set-up to advance his career because he couldn't get selected for the English underage teams was Michael Keane - and he jumped as soon as he was called up by England. For me that is by far the worse case.
The decision by both Grealish and Rice was driven by money - being Irish internationals would have halved their transfer fee and halved their contract size. The switch was driven by agents and their club. Grealish's father now works for the agent who got Grealish to declare for England.
I don't have a problem with Cannon taking his time - when he makes a decision you know he will be committed, no matter which way he decides.
That's one that's being doing the rounds that definitely isn't true - someone said they'd heard off someone who heard it, just after he'd confirmed he was gonna play for England. It doesn't even make any sense - there's no way a 15-18 year old kid seriously says that in an Ireland camp, in front of all his Irish team mates. People do need to remember that England were chasing Grealish and he rejected them from age 15 up (offering him to join their u17 euros squad at age 15). If, at that age, he wanted to play for England, it was really easy to do so and England were trying everything to make it happen. They continued to chase him every year and at every age group and they were constantly rejected.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
i also heard the exact same story about 15 years ago, except it was an england underage team building squad and it was Kevin Kilbane saying he dreamt of playing for Ireland. and again a decade ago with James McClean for a NI underage squad (which actually seems more believable)
It's all a bit like the one about Wayne Rooney being kicked out of a trial at Liverpool for wearing an Everton jersey. Good story that fits a certain narrative but didn't happen...
If Mrs. Feet and I had a kid, he'd be eligible for Ireland and South Korea.Quote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
Imagine he was a good young League One player with a high ceiling, with scouts from EPL clubs looking at him; he's not on Ireland's radar yet, but has a potential pathway to our senior team if he maxes out on his talent.
But then Korea offer him an immediate place in their senior squad to fill a problem position, with the likelihood of a 50+ cap career.
In that case, I'd advise him to wait and see. Get established in his club career first, find his level, and then assess his options. International managers are pragmatists; once he's committed either way, they'll call him up if he's good enough to add to their teams. There won't be any deadlines set. I wouldn't be telling my kid to commit out of 'respect' to Korean fans, especially not a bunch of angry lads on Internet forums. Fans are fickle - a few good performances and they'll be won over.
In Cannon's case, committing to Ireland over England could mean foregoing huge earning potential as well as (probably) a childhood dream. It's not a decision he should take lightly, especially with us being unlikely to qualify for any major tournaments in the next five-six years, and the fact that he plays in the same position as our only elite-level player.
I heard it from a father of one of his team-mates in the set-upQuote:
Originally Posted by Jolly Red Giant
South Korea vs Ireland is a no-brainer. You'd pick SK. They qualify for things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Supreme feet
My son is half Korean and he's not getting back into the house, if he picked KoreaQuote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
What about his Mother ? !Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
I was wondering this too, but surely under Irish football law, she is entitled to lodge a protest as Gaeilge like the rest of us?Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Diggs wears the trousers in the relationship, lads.
Thanks Germaine Greer !Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Who's afraid of Virginia Wolf ? !Quote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
From what I can tell it looks like he was dropped completely from the Leicester match day squad. It’s been a bit of a rollercoaster ride for him and probably hasn’t worked out too well overall.
I really have never seen much in his all round game to make me think he is going to be a premier league level striker. I don't think he is such an incredible goalscorer that he can get away with having an average all round gameQuote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Will he be name checked for the up and coming U-21 match?
"....missed a handful of games, with a knock, post-international break" according to the Lancashire Evening Post (11 April). " I feel sad. He trains well every day. At other clubs, he would be a striker who could score goals. But we have so many strikers. He is a fantastic professional." (Leicester City boss, Enzo Maresca, on having left Cannon out of the latest squad).
In a weird way, not playing is exactly what we want him to be doing at this point in time.
There's probably a nice middle ground of maybe 7/8 goals this season in fairness!
Some Cannon fodder !Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soc...medium=twitter
Another example of an Irish football journalist not understanding the eligibility rules, which he gets completely wrong, but interesting comments from Cannon and hopefully he gets his competitive cap this autumn.
It reads a little like he was considering his options or he was waiting for something more compelling to come from England but it never came following an initial approach.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
“It never really entered my head in terms of I am going to have to pick one over the other, more [a case] of taking a step back from it and looking at the situation and going from there."
Very disappointing that Carsley reached out to the agent though.
Why though? He's an U21s player and Carsley is the U21s manager. Why wouldn't he want to strengthen his own team. Kenny and Crawford met with Jack McGlynn in the US last year.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
Yes I don't think Carsley is doing anything other than his job. And Cannon is an English born dual national and is entitled to consider it until such time that he is tied.
I'm glad that it sounds like Tom has taken the time, had a think and looks to be committing to us now. It's possible that his injury disrupted season came at a good time for us, but we'll take any small bit of luck we get right now, because we haven't been getting much of it.
I think he's a very good prospect, he outshone Troy Parrott by a distance when they were at Preston together and, if he avoids further serious injury, he'll have a good career in the Premier league or at the top end of the Championship. I hope he gets a good reception on his debut.
Didn't realize Kenny or Crawford had 40 caps for the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by JR89
It's just disappointing for me. I would rather an ex player of ours didn't make an approach to bring a current player of ours into another country's international set up.
I didn't say he didn't have the opportunity or right to make the approach, did I?
So Carsley shouldn't do his job because he's an ex international?Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
No. I shouldn't be disappointed because you said I shouldn't be.Quote:
Originally Posted by JR89
He's just doing the job he's (well) paid to do though. Where do you draw the line? Would you rather Jack Charlton hadn't managed Ireland against England in 88? With English players too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé