Republic of Ireland V Bulgaria - Wednesday, 18th November 2020 - Nations League

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

We have been weakened by all this, but they are getting it much worse.

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Here it is Paul. As usual you rush to thank it, and thank the counter to my response and accuse me of ignoring facts. I may have daft opinions sometimes but I don't take kindly to being told I ignore facts. I'd love to know by what objective measure you can accuse me of ignoring facts.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

That was my recollection too. Paul - answer the question.

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Truth game, @tets ...who do you prefer Bielsa or Paul_OShea?

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

Truth game, @tets ...who do you prefer Bielsa or Paul_OShea?

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Does tets have 24 hours to answer? ;)

Theres more people calling for Kennys head than I would have expected on here. I touched on it in a previous post but I think its worth asking the question.

If Mick McCarthy had been left in charge would the results in the last 8 games been much different?

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Originally Posted by Diggs246

Truth game, @tets ...who do you prefer Bielsa or Paul_OShea?

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Biela's not been around as long as Paul. Read into that what you will.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

The you should have written "ignore the facts, that's your prerogative", or "don't let the facts get in the way of the narrative". What you wrote made no sense.


"half the missing players" could have referred to either the missing Irish or Bulgarian players, be less ambiguous in future.

I don't see any thanks from him on your reply.

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Right, i didnt realise i was being ambiguous.

On the other bit here -> https://foot.ie/threads/261875-Repub...=1#post2058222

Do we really need to take up the posts with this though, its kinda digressing from the topic at hand, and I am sure others dont want to read it or care for it.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

That was my recollection too. Paul - answer the question.

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What, now I am confused? Answer what question? If ireland had bad luck or bulgaria had bad luck? I thought it was about Kellys argument saying dont ignore or words to that effect about Bulgaria being unlucky?

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Theres more people calling for Kennys head than I would have expected on here. I touched on it in a previous post but I think its worth asking the question.

If Mick McCarthy had been left in charge would the results in the last 8 games been much different?

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Law of averages, I doubt they'd have been any worse. He might have squeaked through the playoffs. He might have had the gravitas to keep ahold of McGoldrick for these games at least. It wouldn't have taken much more - just a goal here or there. It'd have been worse football, but in the end he'd have been as constrained as Kenny by injuries and covid.

I'm not among those calling for Kenny's head, but I certainly have sympathy with those who do. It's bloody hard to watch a team go 10 hours without scoring and remain even faintly optimistic, whatever the mitigating factors.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Right, i didnt realise i was being ambiguous.

On the other bit here -> https://foot.ie/threads/261875-Repub...=1#post2058222

Do we really need to take up the posts with this though, its kinda digressing from the topic at hand, and I am sure others dont want to read it or care for it.

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Paul, you've persisted with posts along the lines of "I said this before and nobody listened and now I'm right" for years, without being called out on it.
Now that you are, are you trying to back away from your statements?

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Theres more people calling for Kennys head than I would have expected on here. I touched on it in a previous post but I think its worth asking the question.

If Mick McCarthy had been left in charge would the results in the last 8 games been much different?

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I think that's hypothetical really, but as results go we'd probably have failed to score against Gibraltar this time around :) I think we'd have got a win or two under Mccarthy at least.

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Originally Posted by Razors left peg

Theres more people calling for Kennys head than I would have expected on here. I touched on it in a previous post but I think its worth asking the question.

If Mick McCarthy had been left in charge would the results in the last 8 games been much different?

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I think the results would largely have been the same, we might have beaten Slovakia on penalties instead of losing, we might have lost at home to Wales instead of drawing, but I think we'd have scored at least once.

There's a discussion on the Kenny thread about how the U21s would have done with Kenny still in charge which ties into the same question.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Paul, you've persisted with posts along the lines of "I said this before and nobody listened and now I'm right" for years, without being called out on it.
Now that you are, are you trying to back away from your statements?

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Can we take this off to rubbish and discuss there, and tell me what I have to answer? Where did I say Stutts ignored the facts, did i quote him and say that? And what question did I not answer, that Bulgaria had solely bad luck but we didnt?

I think its a bit silly clogging up this but I am more than happy to answer when I know what I'm being asked to answer.

On another note the search function is terrible on foot, i cant find others posts or mine when trying to recall or reprint what someone or ive written in the past. WOuld be good.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Right, i didnt realise i was being ambiguous.

On the other bit here -> https://foot.ie/threads/261875-Repub...=1#post2058222

Do we really need to take up the posts with this though, its kinda digressing from the topic at hand, and I am sure others dont want to read it or care for it.

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If you stop accusing me of ignoring facts I’ll cease to pull you up on it. If you continue, I’ll continue. I’m not that fussed if it distracts others. I’m not the cause of it.

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Originally Posted by John83

Law of averages, I doubt they'd have been any worse. He might have squeaked through the playoffs. He might have had the gravitas to keep ahold of McGoldrick for these games at least. It wouldn't have taken much more - just a goal here or there. It'd have been worse football, but in the end he'd have been as constrained as Kenny by injuries and covid.

I'm not among those calling for Kenny's head, but I certainly have sympathy with those who do. It's bloody hard to watch a team go 10 hours without scoring and remain even faintly optimistic, whatever the mitigating factors.

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It has been exceptionally hard to watch but I think it would have been worse under McCarthy. I believe we would have gone away to Slovakia with 11 behind the ball and invited Slovakia onto us for 90 minutes, who knows if we would have even made it to penalties. Then with the other games I firmly believe it would have been similar situation with minimal possession and setting up just to defend in all the games.

Thats why Im willing to give Kenny the benefit of the doubt until he has a full hand to play with. Hes made mistakes for sure but I think he gets credit for continuing to try install a new style of playing even with the majority of his best players missing. I also still think that we cant under estimate the fact that there are no fans to give the players that big push they sometimes need, no matter who has been the Irish manager.

There's also a real possibility that, before fans can return to stadiums, the results will mean the manager has already lost their support. As it is, he's already lost the support that comes with the benefit of the doubt a new manager gets

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Can we take this off to rubbish and discuss there, and tell me what I have to answer? Where did I say Stutts ignored the facts, did i quote him and say that? And what question did I not answer, that Bulgaria had solely bad luck but we didnt?

I think its a bit silly clogging up this but I am more than happy to answer when I know what I'm being asked to answer.

On another note the search function is terrible on foot, i cant find others posts or mine when trying to recall or reprint what someone or ive written in the past. WOuld be good.

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Maybe some of the football experts on your group chats, with their much greater football knowledge then us lesser mortals on foot.ie, could give you a hand

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

There's also a real possibility that, before fans can return to stadiums, the results will mean the manager has already lost their support. As it is, he's already lost the support that comes with the benefit of the doubt a new manager gets

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Thats true but when the game kicks off fans generally just get behind the team especially if the players are trying hard.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Can we take this off to rubbish and discuss there, and tell me what I have to answer? Where did I say Stutts ignored the facts, did i quote him and say that? And what question did I not answer, that Bulgaria had solely bad luck but we didnt?

I think its a bit silly clogging up this but I am more than happy to answer when I know what I'm being asked to answer.

On another note the search function is terrible on foot, i cant find others posts or mine when trying to recall or reprint what someone or ive written in the past. WOuld be good.

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Are you seriously denying you accused me of ignoring facts? Really?

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Do we really need to take up the posts with this though, its kinda digressing from the topic at hand, and I am sure others dont want to read it or care for it.

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I dunno, I'm all ears here anyway. Carry on.

I don't like Kenny much but I wouldn't be calling for his head. The run of luck makes it very hard to judge. It wasn't a 2nd string he had against Bulgaria, it was the 2nds and 3rds. We didn't even have our main striker who is now a 19 year old warming the bench for Norwich.

I still think he might do what he did at Dundalk and start earning the loyalty and maximizing the potential of these younger lads who he is blooding. We need to get the most of of what we have and he can do that. He may also do what he did at Rovers and buckle under the pressure, especially when the more senior players are around. Either way, it's too early to make that call I think. He got hired based on his achievements with Dundalk but the scenario was very different there to what he stepped into at Rovers. Dundalk were garbage and he managed to earn their loyalty, boost their confidence, find a good system and get the most out of lads like Shields. He took them from being below average LOI players to competing and getting results in the Europa League. I'd still probably prefer if he had stayed with the 21s until that crop was all ready to step up to senior but here we are.

Mick wouldn't have done any better for me though. I think people are quick to forget just how bad we were under him. It was depressing to watch and you were looking at our best 11 more often than not. Talk of fans turning their backs is a bit rich - most of the fairweathers I know had already had their heads turned by the rugby or gaa due to how bad we've been for a long time under multiple managers. Crowds were already ****e. As bad as last night was, at least we showed some positives with Cullen, Knight (2nd half), Byrne, O'Shea and even Curtis all looking useful. And as weak as Kenny can be in the media, at least we haven't had to listen to Mick or Martin or Trap's negativity. Imagine the excuses and moaning if they'd had the squad turnover Kenny's had to deal with. Sure they were prone to knocking our best players and saying we couldn't compete, what would they have said about the rest? Would Trap have even known who to call up? Couple that with the fact we were wasting so much money on these big names while the debts were astounding.

Talk of scouring the world for some young up and comer is a little odd as well - what would you look for? Someone who took a small club to unprecedented heights and ideally knew our young players well?

I have concerns, notably in his formation and fear of using Byrne which go hand in hand. We are built for wing backs. We have 2 of the best from one of the best leagues in the world in the side and Byrne would thrive in that set up as he does at Rovers. Maybe not to start, I'm not saying he would've lit it up against England or will change us completely, but in that system we can at least use him against Bulgaria and switch to someone else if we need to keep it tighter against the better teams. Who that is I don't know as Brady is too lazy to rely on and Hourihane is too cumbersome. Maybe Ronan/Cullen/Knight can play in there.


Putting it to bed now until March. The FAI cup beckons thankfully.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Can we take this off to rubbish and discuss there, and tell me what I have to answer? Where did I say Stutts ignored the facts, did i quote him and say that? And what question did I not answer, that Bulgaria had solely bad luck but we didnt?

I think its a bit silly clogging up this but I am more than happy to answer when I know what I'm being asked to answer.

On another note the search function is terrible on foot, i cant find others posts or mine when trying to recall or reprint what someone or ive written in the past. WOuld be good.

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Here, I found it using the search functionality. Easy when you know how.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

But yes i meant its the individual posters right to ignore the facts, as they choose.

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which clarified this post from you

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Don't let the facts get in the way of the perogative.

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Who was this referring to?

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

I dunno, I'm all ears here anyway. Carry on.

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I'm good with it.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Here, I found it using the search functionality. Easy when you know how.

which clarified this post from you

Who was this referring to?

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It was clearly referring to the only poster who queried backstowalsall’s contention that Bulgaria were “much worse” hit than us. I’ve no beef with backstowalsall’s position here. My beef is with being accused of ignoring facts. I can rattle off several facts that fairly back up my view. At the end you have one set of facts (Bulgaria’s losses) and another (our losses). Of course we can take an objective view of whose were worse, but that’s not the point. In disagreeing with backstowalsall’s point I didn’t accuse him of ignoring facts. I wouldn’t do that. But in agreeing with him Paul did, a few times, as Tets quoted above.


Remember there was also this needlessly aggressive comment in the same sequence of posts:

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Nothing like a good dose of reality to wake up the "hard done" by.

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Reality versus fantasy again. Facts versus fiction. Paul’s favourite theme.

Paul then even moved the goalposts to say each side had maybe faced the same bad luck.

Just man up Paul and we can move on.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

It was clearly referring to the only poster who queried backstowalsall’s contention that Bulgaria were “much worse” hit than us. I’ve no beef with backstowalsall’s position here. My beef is with being accused of ignoring facts. I can rattle off several facts that fairly back up my view. At the end you have one set of facts (Bulgaria’s losses) and another (our losses). Of course we can take an objective view of whose were worse, but that’s not the point. In disagreeing with backstowalsall’s point I didn’t accuse him of ignoring facts. I wouldn’t do that. But in agreeing with him Paul did, a few times, as Tets quoted above.


Remember there was also this needlessly aggressive comment in the same sequence of posts:

Reality versus fantasy again. Facts versus fiction. Paul’s favourite theme.

Paul then even moved the goalposts to say each side had maybe faced the same bad luck.

Just man up Paul and we can move on.

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Agreed. Paul, why did you accuse him of ignoring facts?

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

It was clearly referring to the only poster who queried backstowalsall’s contention that Bulgaria were “much worse” hit than us. I’ve no beef with backstowalsall’s position here. My beef is with being accused of ignoring facts. I can rattle off several facts that fairly back up my view. At the end you have one set of facts (Bulgaria’s losses) and another (our losses). Of course we can take an objective view of whose were worse, but that’s not the point. In disagreeing with backstowalsall’s point I didn’t accuse him of ignoring facts. I wouldn’t do that. But in agreeing with him Paul did, a few times, as Tets quoted above.


Remember there was also this needlessly aggressive comment in the same sequence of posts:

Reality versus fantasy again. Facts versus fiction. Paul’s favourite theme.

Paul then even moved the goalposts to say each side had maybe faced the same bad luck.

Just man up Paul and we can move on.

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I've missed this place.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

It was clearly referring to the only poster who queried backstowalsall’s contention that Bulgaria were “much worse” hit than us. I’ve no beef with backstowalsall’s position here.

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If i might add, in a dreadfully off topic way (sorry admins), that as a nordie i can only admire the level of discipline required to never recognise my 'new' username (It's what, 2 or 3 years now?).

You would fit right in almost anywhere in the north of Ireland, but particularly well in Londonderry.

That's after giving me a proper auld laugh Walsall.

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It's actually nearly 5 years!

Request on 09/12/2016.

Changed on 16/12/2016. Even Adam wasn't happy about it!

https://foot.ie/threads/207341-Usern...=1#post1852838

You'll always be our Opal Fruits!

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Originally Posted by backstothewall

If i might add, in a dreadfully off topic way (sorry admins), that as a nordie i can only admire the level of discipline required to never recognise my 'new' username (It's what, 2 or 3 years now?).

You would fit right in almost anywhere in the north of Ireland, but particularly well in Londonderry.

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Old habits die hard - apologies! Think of me as an elder statesman like Johnny Giles. My analytical powers remain strong but ability with names is brutal.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

It was clearly referring to the only poster who queried backstowalsall’s contention that Bulgaria were “much worse” hit than us. I’ve no beef with backstowalsall’s position here. My beef is with being accused of ignoring facts. I can rattle off several facts that fairly back up my view. At the end you have one set of facts (Bulgaria’s losses) and another (our losses). Of course we can take an objective view of whose were worse, but that’s not the point. In disagreeing with backstowalsall’s point I didn’t accuse him of ignoring facts. I wouldn’t do that. But in agreeing with him Paul did, a few times, as Tets quoted above.


Remember there was also this needlessly aggressive comment in the same sequence of posts:

Reality versus fantasy again. Facts versus fiction. Paul’s favourite theme.

Paul then even moved the goalposts to say each side had maybe faced the same bad luck.

Just man up Paul and we can move on.

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Agreed. Paul, why did you accuse him of ignoring facts?

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Paul, I'm going to need an answer on this by 6pm this evening.

Thread locked and archived