FAI Investigate Alleged Racist Abuse Of Zayed

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

But if there's no corroborating evidence then it's just one man's word over another and any positive ruling from the FAI would have serious legal implications.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

most trials are one persons word against another. In cases where it is one persons word against another (e.g. rape) other evidence (including things such as believability and character) can lead to a court finding someone guilty. No legal implications whatsoever provided the FAI investigation is conducted fairly and properly.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Well what I mean is that the FAI is (in a sense) a media organisation and they have no more a right than the Evening Herald to make definitive judgements based on two people's contrasting stories.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

no way CD. Do you really believe that?!

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willing to concede on that point now CD? :p

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Originally Posted by SkStu

FFS Rovers fans, forgetting about whatever was said or not said for a second, instead of acting put out by all this and coming across as vindicated and victimised, you need to ask yourselves the tough questions like what is the value of having a complete scuzzball like Chris Turner (whose moral fibre is non-existent) at your club and being banned for 3 important games of the season.

Time to get real lads and start asking the right questions. Who is going to step up within your ranks and be that person?

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Oh Please :rolleyes:

http://www.sondrakistan.com/wp-conte...en_Lovejoy.jpg

Moral fibre, value of a player scoring winners in semifinals etc..if you weren't such a Bohs fan, I'd be questioning had you taken the wrong tablets today, Sk :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RovF1zsDoeM

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Originally Posted by dfx-

Oh Please :rolleyes:

http://www.sondrakistan.com/wp-conte...en_Lovejoy.jpg

Moral fibre, value of a player scoring winners in semifinals etc..if you weren't such a Bohs fan, I'd be questioning had you taken the wrong tablets today, Sk :)

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"Carry On... Regardless" Rovers fans.. I dont give a sh!t.

Frame my post whatever way you want to make yourself feel better but they are the questions you should be asking yourselves today.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

willing to concede on that point now CD? :p

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Well I think the verdict fits with what I was saying: the FAI couldn't get enough evidence to rule he'd made a racist comment but did decide he said something less serious. I have no idea how the hearing actually went down: it could have been that Zayed said Turner called him X and Turner replied that he actually said Y, and the FAI punished him for saying Y.

Algebra.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Frame my post whatever way you want to make yourself feel better but they are the questions you should be asking yourselves today.

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Spare the moral fibre tripe. The questions being asked about Turner will be whether he's good enough to start ahead of Rice McCormack Finn or O'Donnell. He'll be judged on the pitch.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

FFS Rovers fans, forgetting about whatever was said or not said for a second, instead of acting put out by all this and coming across as vindicated and victimised, you need to ask yourselves the tough questions like what is the value of having a complete scuzzball like Chris Turner (whose moral fibre is non-existent) at your club and being banned for 3 important games of the season.

Time to get real lads and start asking the right questions. Who is going to step up within your ranks and be that person?

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Good post. It is obvious at this stage that Shamrock (Management/Players/Fans etc) can do no wrong in the eyes of Shamrock fans. Even the most odious of behavior will be defended by them and they will then profess to be the "model club".

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Originally Posted by dfx-

Spare the moral fibre tripe. The questions being asked about Turner will be whether he's good enough to start ahead of Rice McCormack Finn or O'Donnell. He'll be judged on the pitch.

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It comes as no surprise to myself (and probably the majority on here) that morals are a long way down the list on Shamrock's priorities.

Glad to see that Turner was found guilty of the racist abuse. It came as no surprise once we heard who it was who made the comments. They guy is a complete scumbag and I would hate to have him at my club.

Only sad thing is that it is only 3 games. If Rovers had any class they would have some sort of internal punishment on top of the FAI one but I wouldnt hold my breath.

Only one party found guilty of racial abuse yet there isn't a word about them from the usual suspects on here, the focus is entirely on Shamrock Rovers. Funny that but not surprising.

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Originally Posted by nzamcdza

Glad to see that Turner was found guilty of the racist abuse.

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He hasn't been found guilty of racist abust, he's been found guilty of saying something offensive to Zayed that wasn't construed to be racist by the disciplinary committee of the FAI. That's the fact no matter how much you don't want it to be true.

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Originally Posted by sullanefc

It comes as no surprise to myself (and probably the majority on here) that morals are a long way down the list on Shamrock's priorities.

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I think you're getting mixed up, sullane. Nobody claimed Rovers were the moral club; everyone knows Rovers are the model club.

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Originally Posted by nzamcdza

Glad to see that Turner was found guilty of the racist abuse. It came as no surprise once we heard who it was who made the comments.

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Except he wasn't..

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Originally Posted by Jicked

What did you think about St Pats fans being found guilty of racist abuse?

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I think the ONE fan who done it, even though he came forward the next day admitting it, should definitely be further punished by the club

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Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever

I think the ONE fan who done it, even though he came forward the next day admitting it, should definitely be further punished by the club

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ONE fan? The FAI clearly stated it was a (albeit small) number of supporters?

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Originally Posted by Jicked

ONE fan? The FAI clearly stated it was a (albeit small) number of supporters?

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Yep, it was one fan. The FAI also clearly state that in the recent racism allegations made by Zayed, Turner has been found guilty and recieved a ban. Do you think SRFC should take further action for the embarrassment he's caused your club?

The FAI should have just released a short statement saying: "Believe whatever you want."

Why did the FAI say there was multiple fans involved?

Terrific bit of wording there to make it seem like he's been found guilty of making racist comments. But no, I don't think we should take further actions, despite SkStu's fantastic post on the previous page.

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Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever

I think the ONE fan who done it, even though he came forward the next day admitting it, should definitely be further punished by the club

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Id find ONE fan racially abusing someone worse then ONE player saying something offensive.

Most people were telling Rovers fans to wait and see what came from the investigation before calling Zayed a liar now that the investigation has said that Turners comment whatever he said was not racist they are ignoring it.

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Originally Posted by Hibs4Ever

Unsurprising to see Shams fans defending the scumbag. Player and club are a perfect match

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Defending him against what exactly?

I'd say Turner is a relieved man that it was an offensive comment and not a racist comment he got banned for. Jason McGuinness has said that the punishment of having to sign for Sligo because of his indiscretion was too high a price to pay.

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Originally Posted by sundance kid

I'd say Turner is a relieved man that it was an offensive comment and not a racist comment he got banned for. Jason McGuinness has said that the punishment of having to sign for Sligo because of his indiscretion was too high a price to pay.

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Being Chris Turner should be punishment enough imo

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

Well I think the verdict fits with what I was saying: the FAI couldn't get enough evidence to rule he'd made a racist comment but did decide he said something less serious. I have no idea how the hearing actually went down: it could have been that Zayed said Turner called him X and Turner replied that he actually said Y, and the FAI punished him for saying Y.

Algebra.

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Well no, it doesnt fit in any way with what you were saying. You said they couldnt make a decision based on one persons word against another. They did. If we go on your version of events, they believed Turners version ahead of Zayeds version. If we go with another approach, namely, the comments to Zayed were not technically racist but were "offensive", they also believe one word over another though didnt agree with the characterisation of those words.

To quote PC Paul McInally of Charing Cross Police Station in the Mark Thomas docu about the SOCPA Laws and what constitutes offensive comments:

"One man's **** is another man's crap is another man's poo"

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Originally Posted by SkStu

Well no, it doesnt fit in any way with what you were saying. You said they couldnt make a decision based on one persons word against another. They did. If we go on your version of events, they believed Turners version ahead of Zayeds version. If we go with another approach, namely, the comments to Zayed were not technically racist but were "offensive", they also believe one word over another though didnt agree with the characterisation of those words.

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I said they couldn't brand him a racist based on one man's word and they didn't. Of course they can make minor disciplinary decisions based on a lower standard of evidence.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

I clearly said that Rovers fans should be questioning the wisdom or value of having a well documented racist, bigotted scumbag at their club instead of worrying about defending his "honour". He clearly made comments serious enough to warrant a 3 match ban. Those comments were racially motivated or, at best, borderline racist. Is this the sort of player that Rovers fans want to support or defend? Your collective answer is a resounding yes. Fair enough.

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Care to explain those statements?

Could you not have explained it in a letter to SARI (Réiteoir will have the address) who could pass it on to the FAI disciplinary panel so the punishment would've been suitably altered and action could be taken. It is clearly information that you have that they didn't.

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Originally Posted by SkStu

thats not what my fantastic post said though Jicked. Please point out to me where i called for further action to be take. I clearly said that Rovers fans should be questioning the wisdom or value of having a well documented racist, bigotted scumbag at their club instead of worrying about defending his "honour". He clearly made comments serious enough to warrant a 3 match ban. Those comments were racially motivated or, at best, borderline racist. Is this the sort of player that Rovers fans want to support or defend? Your collective answer is a resounding yes. Fair enough.

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The bits in bold Stu. Where are you plucking them from? Do you know Turner personally to label him a racist bigotted scumbag? He's been cleared of being a racist by an independent disciplinary panel, if he was a bigot would he be playing for Shamrock Rovers with all these catholic irishmen? If he was such a bigot would he (a protestant Rangers fan) be friends and share banter with someone like Gary Twigg (a Catholic Celtic supporting Glasweigian)?

As for your claim that his comments "were racially motivated or, at best, borderline racist" well how do you know, were you there? The FAI have cleared him of saying anything racist and I don't believe whatever he said to him was racially motivated either. In the 15 minutes Turner was on the pitch the only time I seen them near each other was when Zayed dived over Turner's leg near the sideline earning himself a free kick and Turner an undeserved yellow card. If Turner then turned around and said something offensive to Zayed it was motivated by Zayed getting Turner booked not from the colour of Zayed's skin or his ethnicity.

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Originally Posted by Réiteoir

To quote PC Paul McInally of Charing Cross Police Station in the Mark Thomas docu about the SOCPA Laws and what constitutes offensive comments:

"One man's **** is another man's crap is another man's poo"

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After a curry, I tend to refer to it as a holiday.

Never seen a club welcome a 3 game ban

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Originally Posted by hoopy

For what it's worth I think if Turner had've been found guilty of racism he should've got a 10 match ban.

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Your claim would have had a lot more credibility if you had made this call BEFORE the ruling was known

The club statement is astonishing.

It celebrates that the abuse was not established as racist as though this is some form of vindcation of the club and player.

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Shamrock Rovers does not condone any form of abuse, racial or otherwise, and has strict policies in place to deal any such activity, if it were to occur.

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What are these strict policies? How will Turner be dealt with now by the club as a consequence of his abusive behaviour?

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While the committee ruled that Chris Turner made an offensive comment to Eamon Zayed, for which he received a three match ban, it did not find that this was racist in nature. In fact, the committee imposed the ban under a separate rule, one which does not cover racist behaviour

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Although the statement acknowledges the ruling and the ban, the absense of any acceptance that this abuse occured speaks volumes.

Rovers may not condone this sort of behaviour, but they certainly don't condemn it either!

Jason McGuiness holds his hands up & admits straight away he made a stupid comment & gets 5 game ban.

Chris Turner denies it, is found guilty & gets only a 3 game ban. What a joke.

Typical of the "model club" in their response to the matter. Head in the sand & deny everything.

They have shown by their comments/actions on the matter the club's standard of conduct is so low they could parachute out of a snake's arse.

This is classic stuff, keep it coming guys. Some of the outrage is absolutely priceless.

Fair play to Pats though, have they got this guy in as a spin doctor?

http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__.../4f/Tucker.jpg

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Originally Posted by White Horse

Whatever Turner said was in the heat of a game.

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"Gaddafis love child"

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Originally Posted by Jicked

This is classic stuff, keep it coming guys. Some of the outrage is absolutely priceless.

Fair play to Pats though, have they got this guy in as a spin doctor?

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In my 6 years on foot.ie, I haven't read make-it-up and refuse-to-read-the-verdictism to compare with today.

And that's a lot of outrage and make-it-upness in that time..

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Originally Posted by kdjaC

"Gaddafis love child"

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Are you sure it wasn't "shoe bomber", "paki", "camel jockey", Libyan c**t or any of the other internet rumours that claimed this was what he definitely said?

Have to endorse what jicked said above. Some of the stuff here today is priceless. KOH - Keep on Hating lads :)

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Originally Posted by dfx-

In my 6 years on foot.ie, I haven't read make-it-up and refuse-to-read-the-verdictism to compare with today.

And that's a lot of outrage and make-it-upness in that time..

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The club's statement is bizarre, is all, in light of the fact that one of their players has just been found guilty of offensive/abusive behaviour and been handed a three-match ban. The statement strangely celebrates that as some sort of vindication of the player and you'd be forgiven for thinking that Turner was cleared of any wrongdoing by the tone of it, save for a relatively brief addendum at the end. I just think that's odd. Whatever about people getting outraged - I'm not getting all het up about it - but you'd nearly wonder did Rovers read the verdict?

Perhaps given some people's inability to figure out the punishment is for offensive comments not racism (many many examples in this thread all day of people not getting this), perhaps it is needed to highlight it. I'd consider the clearance of racism charges more important to stress than the punishment for offensive comments.

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Originally Posted by dfx-

Perhaps given some people's inability to figure out the punishment is for offensive comments not racism (many many examples in this thread all day of people not getting this), perhaps it is needed to highlight it. I'd consider the clearance of racism charges more important to stress than the punishment for offensive comments.

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Your point is not at all unreasonable and I have no difficulty with the Rovers statement (or any poster here) clarifying that Turner was sanctioned for offensive or abusive behaviour as opposed to racist abuse.

The absense of any inkling that this behaviour is regarded as unacceptable by Shamrock Rovers is the kernal of the problem.
The statement waffles on how "Shamrock Rovers does not condone any form of abuse, racial or otherwise, and has strict policies in place to deal any such activity, if it were to occur", but does not acknowledge that it did occur or what these "strict policies" are or how they will be applied to Turner by the club.

It smacks of denial!

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Originally Posted by kdjaC

"Gaddafis love child"

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If this is true Eamon Zayed needs to toughen up in a major way.

Petty to even make an issue of it to be honest.

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Originally Posted by sundance kid

I'd say Turner is a relieved man that it was an offensive comment and not a racist comment he got banned for. Jason McGuinness has said that the punishment of having to sign for Sligo because of his indiscretion was too high a price to pay.

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tough on him being top of the league alright