But what about the ones NB mentioned up thread who he said had just Irish passports? How are they now 'British'?Quote:
Originally Posted by awec
:rolleyes:
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But what about the ones NB mentioned up thread who he said had just Irish passports? How are they now 'British'?Quote:
Originally Posted by awec
:rolleyes:
Except this is a thread about eligibilty. Not overly much to do with football. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
They are BOTH - Dual Nationals.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
They don't have to have a British passport to play for Northern Ireland - they just need to be British Citizens.
They can use their Irish passport to travel to away games with Northern Ireland
Hmm, you are a British citizen without a passport??
Know of a few Brits who'd definitely dispute that....
;)
And a few people in the North who may be 'eligible', but they've never been citizens. Of Britain, that is.
Despite that dubious birthright.
Yes - you don't need to have a British Passport to be a British Citizen.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
To be "eligible" to play for Northern Ireland, you need to be a British Citizen (caveated by Article 16 of the FIFA Statutes).
Just out of curiousity, would some ROI players travel on a British Passport?
The following is the written legislation on the matter, whether one would agree with it or not. Since the British Nationality Act 1981 took effect in 1983, a child born in the UK to a parent who is a British citizen or "settled" in the UK is automatically deemed a British citizen by birth. "Settled" status in this context usually means the parent is resident in the United Kingdom and has the right of abode, holds Indefinite Leave to Remain, or is the citizen of an EU/EEA country and has permanent residence. Irish citizens in the UK are also deemed settled for this purpose.
British nationality law doesn't demand its nationals possess a passport. Nationality laws of respective nations generally don't.
Unaware of that '83 Nationality Act, which to be fair would now incorporate most current players, but definitely not the case before.
And would have been around the same time that all Irish players would have to had an Irish passport, but Charlie Hurley (raised in Britain), told a supporters meeting a while back, this was 'always' the case.
DI, I guess, would give a more authoritative answer.....
It's an interesting one. Often, I see FIFA's rules misrepresented in the media somewhat as we're told that "a FIFA ruling declared that possessing an Irish passport deems one eligible to play for Ireland" or some such half-informed blather. It's not necessarily a passport that makes a person eligible, but their nationality. I suppose a passport is just the document most often cited as proof of someone's nationality. The IFA situation, where players in possession of Irish passports only can play for them, would suggest that a passport may just be for identification and travel purposes, however. If this is the case, then I can't see why an Ireland player couldn't travel on a British passport as long as he's entitled to one. How would one prove their nationality other than via a passport though? How do those NI players with only an Irish passport prove their nationality to FIFA as being that that makes one eligible to play for NI, because Irish nationality alone certainly doesn't permit it? Birth certificate and birth certificate of parents perhaps?Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
There was a few minutes discussion about the eligibility issue on last night's MNS (approx. 10 minutes in).
http://www.rte.ie/player/#v=1099059
Short interviews with Michael O'Neill, Tony Kane and Daniel Kearns.
I'm not actually aware of what the official position of the FAI or FIFA is regarding actual passport documents beyond the nationality of a player. Maybe someone else would know?Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
However, I do know that when there's talk of, say, an English-born player with Irish grandparents getting called up for us, we often hear about him getting his papers and passport processed. I take this to mean he's being issued with an Irish passport. This would suggest that the FAI at least have a policy of ensuring all our players have such a passport. Maybe it's a safety-check mechanism just to ensure the Irish nationality of the player concerned is unquestionably valid and verifiable in case the FAI ever did come under scrutiny from FIFA over something "dodgy", like Tony Cascarino's eligibility maybe. Nothing authoritative from me though, unfortunately. :o
NI Supporters Clubs To Fifa: Waaaaah Waaaaah Waaaah
Don't really want to read it, but anyone get the Irish News today?
Prior to 1983, British nationality law was actually less stringent. It was similar to how Irish nationality law was until 2005 after our automatic right to citizenship by birth in Ireland was removed by the twenty-seventh amendment to the constitution. Now, for Irish nationality to be conferred, at least one parent also needs to be an Irish national.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
Before 1983, birth in the UK was generally sufficient in itself to confer British nationality irrespective of the status of parents.
They'd better be careful not to shout too loud about "footballing apartheid" or FIFA might actually get the wrong idea and unite the two associations as a solution, God forbid.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
I think that's right DI - birth certificates.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
You'll recall the furore about Northern Ireland players having to have a British Passport a few years back - it's not deemed neccessary.
I've seen Northern Ireland players travel on Irish Passports for years, on my travels.
You are so right about Nationality making a player eligible, not a passport - the kack that's printed about passports making a player eligible frustrates the life out of me.
"We believe this situation to be unique in world football, whereby one national association may select two jurisdictions worth of players," he said.
I could be wrong but is there not an analogous situation in Croatia, where they are free to select Bosnian Croats?
The BBC are at it now - inaccurate reporting.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
"Fifa rules include a clause allowing players to change nationality once before they play a senior competitive match if they were born on the territory of the relevant association".
In the name of Sweet Jesus.:rolleyes:
It's getting beyond a joke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
That "Football Apartheid in Ireland" rubbish really kills of any sympathy I have for the NI fans. Absolute hyperbolic garbage.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
For them to use the term "Apartheid"; such an emotionally charged phrase in this context, is absolutely disgraceful and again another terrible move PR wise. Its militant stances like this that will drive more young nationalist kids right into the hands of the FAI.
Presumably that only applies to those born after 1983? Because it didn't always before that date....Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
On that piece SVD posted, it's disappointing to see the trusty old BBC are also making errors of fact I thought only fit for the Belfast Telegraph.
As regards the letter itself from the AoNISC, I can't see where it'll go at all considering FIFA aren't seriously going to give a supporters club greater consideration than one of their own member associations, the IFA, who have been pleading with them to no avail to change their position for quite some time. Filling the open letter with factual errors obviously won't have assisted the cause either.
Not sure what the situation is with Bosnian Croats - you could easily be right - but that claim from the letter isn't even technically correct. The FAI can't really select two jurisdictions-worth of players; they can select only those players who are nationals of the country the association represents, just the same as applies to every other association around the world. The rules are universal. The FAI can't call up northern-born players who don't acknowledge or effect their birthright to Irish nationality.Quote:
Originally Posted by French Toasht
Assume this is alluding to the supposed "gentleman's agreement" for which CAS could find no evidence. If one had existed, you'd expect the IFA to be able to offer proof of it. There is only evidence for FIFA issuing a dictat effective upon the IFA in order to prevent them from selecting players born south of the border. No corresponding dictat was ever issued to the FAI. Regardless, rules supercede "agreed and established practice" every time.Quote:
Originally Posted by AoNISC
Not sure why it would seem that way considering northern-born players were playing for us years before the GFA.Quote:
It seems therefore that the FAI is using the Belfast (Good Friday) Agreement as an excuse for breaking this longstanding policy.
There is no active "policy", but attempting to deny an Irishman the right to express his identity and play for his country drives a wedge just as deep as the one alleged.Quote:
This FAI policy is driving a sectarian wedge between the two communities in Northern Ireland in regard to football.
It will continue to do so.Quote:
We are hugely proud to support a team that includes members of both traditions in Northern Ireland, and want to continue to do so.
Indeed; come join us as one. ;)Quote:
We want an end to Football Apartheid in Ireland.
There is a somewhat analogous case in Germany with Miroslav Klose and Lukas Podolski. Both were born in what was then, and remains, the state of Poland but both are entitled to German citizenship by birth due to the way the borders were divided after the wars. I don't think that entitlement is granted anymore, though, which is where the parallels end.
Not sure what you're referring to exactly. Presumably what only applies? Prior to a few years ago - I'm sure NB can provide the exact year - it was my understanding that if a player wished to play for the IFA, they expected him to possess a British passport. It's possible that FIFA also expected the same of such players; likely actually, as I seem to recall someone at the IFA having to lobby FIFA for a change in order to allow players with only Irish passports, but otherwise eligible, to play for NI. Neither have this expectation as a rule any longer. I don't know whether FIFA have abolished their stipulation universally or if it's just a case of making a special allowance for the IFA, where their players need not prove eligibility via a British passport but by birth certificate.Quote:
Originally Posted by ArdeeBhoy
In the star today , they mention that young Conor Delvin on Man utd (GK) is the next to switch from the North ... I can see this thing im getting a lot worse for the North.
May 2006.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
FIFA decreed that the players representing the IFA would have to possess a British Passport to confirm eligibility - the IFA approached FIFA, and had this requirement scrapped.
Prior to the FIFA diktat, the IFA had never objected to players holding an Irish Passport playing for Northern Ireland.
FIFA advised that he mere fact that a person may be holding an Irish passport did not provide conclusive evidence for a match commissioner to know that a player is entitled to represent Northern Ireland.
Less than 1 month later, the matter was resolved, and FIFA accepted that Northern Ireland players could hold either passport and travel on these as long as the IFA certifies the eligibility of the players involved.
From personal experience, I know that Northern Ireland players were travelling on Irish passports before May 2006 - I travelled to the West Indies with Northern Ireland in 2004, and some players were travelling on Irish Passports.
Aye, but how many caps did you get? :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
So is this what you might call a "special dispensation" for the IFA or did FIFA scrap the passport stipulation universally, do you know?
I don't see why there'd be a problem traveling on an Irish passport. FIFA only need it to confirm you are who you say you are - eligibility is all sorted out before that.
I don't honestly know DI, but I suspect it was "an Irish thing", so to speak.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Nay an Irish solution to an Irish problem?Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Brazil
Comments made on BBC NI coverage after the Ireland v Northern Ireland Nations' Cup game by Jim Magilton:
Now after transcribing all of that I have learned a few things:Quote:
Stephen Watson: Giovanni Trappatoni told me tonight that FIFA must sort out this eligibility rule and this, eh, so-called poaching of players. Wha... what's your take as a former Northern Ireland captain of what the Republic of Ireland are doing at the moment?
Jim Magilton: I agree. You know... eh... I think that they... eh.. FIFA should... it's simple. Ja know for me if you know at the end of the day if... Why, why haven't they really stepped in and said, suggested that anyone played in the North you play for the North and anyone pla... born in the South you play in the South. At the end of the day, maybe you have to ask the players, who have actually gone and played for the Republic why they have chosen the Republic ahead of Northern Ireland. Maybe it's time that they answered a few questions, maybe it's time that you know, someone sat them down and said right listen, wha... why.. whats'... why... what are the reasons behind, you know, you want to go and play for the Republic? And and maybe getting the answers then. Then maybe if you get them sort of answers then you can come out and deal with it. But at the minute FIFA are hiding behind and I think FIFA should be you know, should come out and be a lot more stronger about it.
1. I never want to hear Jim Magilton's voice again.
2. I will never make it as a stenographer.
3. Listening to it so often has made it lose it's meaning as he really didn't say an awful lot in the end.
4. The ignorance re eligibility is only being highlighted by the IFA and their allies and the FAI really need to start underlining this fact and start standing up for the Irishmen and I'm sure women that have decided that their allegiance lies with their national team.
5. Trap didn't say at all what Stephen Watson alluded to. I will now transcribe that...
PS. Adam I'm sorry I don't have a link. I did what I could.
Comments made on BBC NI coverage after the Ireland v Northern Ireland Nations' Cup game by Giovanni Trapattoni:
Found it very funny how they didn't ask Worthy what his thoughts were.Quote:
Stephen Watson: One of the big talking points... controversial talking points in the build up to this game has been the perceived poaching of Northern Ireland's players by the Republic of Ireland, as the headcoach wha... what are your thoughts on that subject?
Giovanni Trapattoni: That is no... that is no... that is no... our problem because I understand also our... our colleague... aya our... the other players, but the reason is we let them (de)cide. Dera dera dem... UEFA... de de de the rules I think is better if federation, the FIFA can clarify these rules, after we can no ask the player. The play... the family, the players decide if they want play with Ireland or the other country. For us its not a big problem.
Earlier in the day he was still banging on about players strictly representing the countries they were born in. I guess that's the equivalent of shooting yourself in the foot but having nerve damage in said foot so the injury goes unnoticed.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
His address reached an epic climax with the totally pro-freedom declaration that the gate needs to be 'firmly shut' on players who want to switch associations. Honestly, the only thing lacking was the College Green and 60,000 spectators his speech truly deserved.
I figured that was why however I also thought that maybe they did ask him and they decided to edit it out as it sounded awfully like the crap he's been spouting for the last few days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullivinho
Oddly, what Trap said makes more sense than what Magilton said.
I also reckon that maybe outside the Guild Hall in Derry might be the most appropriate venue for Nigel's presidential-style address.
Listen to Niall McGinn at 1.18. Almost brings a tear to my eye :) :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn8bk...layer_embedded
"Obviously I'm a Republic of Ireland fan so obviously it was good to play against them"Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapAPony
Even the players who stick with them have Ireland's interests at heart. OK, I think I've officially reached the point where I start feeling sorry for them. It was a long road but here I am.
As long as they were born in Northern Ireland of course. It's not our fault he doesn't like the rules, so he can live with it or quit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullivinho
He lost 5-0 to a nation's reserve team. That is the main issue he should be focusing on.
Not very honest by Niall McGinn when he says the only positive he can take from the game is that he got Robbie Keane's shirt.
What about the result Niall? We won! :)
The main story on last night's UTV Live News programme was about the boycott.
We had close to 10 minutes on that, and the eligibility issue.
According to the UTV Reporter, the IFA have tried several times to have the FIFA rules CHANGED.
Either this is just **** poor reporting, or it's a blatant lie.
The IFA fought with FIFA to have their rules UPHELD.
The IFA got what they wanted.
wasn't that Caleb Folan wandering by while Niall McGinn was gushing about playing against his heroes? thought he'd dropped out.
That was Darren Randolph. :)