Printable View
I don't think any of this is about sour grapes.
It is all about fair play. There is a difference. Had we lost fairly and we complained that would be sour grapes.
If someone steals your wallet, is it sour grapes to complain? That's what some of the forgive and forget folks make out.
Anyways, the hypocrisy of FIFA is pretty blatent. It is a sham of an organisation, a mickey mouse institution. The WC will be more like EuroDisney than a serious football competition because of FIFA.
Did it take this to make that clear? The world cup is a football themed marketing exhibition, and FIFA is an advertising agency. It has not been about the football since at least the 1970s, if it even was then. Good of the game me ***** ******.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
Now?Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
It has never been a serious infringement of the rules.
Intentional handball is a yellow card offence, that's the extent of it.
As for your nonsense about stealing our wallet....
Just close the thread, please!
FIFA are a shambles, but they have been for decades, and they would have been exactly the same shambles run by exactly the same idiots even if we had qualified. It's not like FIFA = Farce is new information.
could they not have charged him with the catch-all ungentlemanly conduct or bringing the game in to disrepute?Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmet7
if they really wanted to punish him in some way they could have found a way. when cantona kicked that fan that time he wasnt on the field of play but still got a lengthy ban
use of the hand to stop a goal is a straight red so why shouldnt scoring (or setting up a score) be deemed a red also?Quote:
Originally Posted by tiktok
Have to disagree with you there. The VERY least that should have emerged out of all this is that something should have been put in place to ensure it doesn't happen again. I could just about stomach it then. Henry had everything to gain and absolutley nothing to loose by breaking the rule, and that gap is still there to be exploited. It shows how little regard FIFA have for the integrity of the sport.Quote:
Originally Posted by twoenz
I hope the ***** in FIFA get the tournament they deserve. FYI There's companies selling Stab Vests in the colours of respective countries competing. FIFA are snapping. More about how it reflects on their "brand" rather than the fans safety I'd imagine. I hope the tournament riddled with security problems and drug scandals. (No deaths obviously for anyone about to mount their pedastel)
bleating about no legal foundation for punishing Henry is making me sick, FIFA are the ones who set the laws, so why not do something about it?
I've a terrible feeling that the next time something like this happens (and it will happen again) the powers that be will just point to this ruling, shrug their shoulders, and let it happen over and over again
it suits FIFA that they can do nothing in this case but you can be sure if it was a lesser country they would have found a way to punish the player involved.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
which was worse henrys cheating or liam bradys alleged clip round the ear that he gave the bulgarian player in '87? brady got a three match ban yet henry gets off scot free :confused:
http://notthenuacht.com/?p=177
Punished at last
It's a straight red because that's the ruling when someone denies a clear goalscoring opportunity, the mode of the offence [handball, tackle etc.,] is irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
There is no parallel rule for unfairly scoring a goal being a red card offence.
I think the opposite actually. If it happens again but hinders one of the big dogs, it'll be acted upon and closed out.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
A player raising his hands to the face/head of an opponent is always going to draw a stronger reaction than a handball.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
but it is still a red. i know the opposite does not apply and thats the question i was posing.... why not? its double standards and discriminates against defendersQuote:
Originally Posted by tiktok
agree. but which had a greater impact on the result of the game? clearly henrysQuote:
Originally Posted by tiktok
I don't think it is realistic to expect FIFA to make up a new rule and punish Henry retrospectively for it. I would be a terrible precedent to set. Any punishment should be in line with existing rules.
So, what are some existing rules under which he could have been punished?
bringing the game into disripute?Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Once again it needs to be pointed out that Ireland are out of the World Cup not because of the handball goal. But because we failed to take our chances to score a second.
Remember at the time of that goal, we were drawing. At best it would have gone to penalties. A second goal and we would have won the tie, even with Henry's handball goal we would have won on away goals.
The offence being punished is denying a clear goalscoring opportunity, not the handball in of itself, that's just the vehicle by which the offence is committed [as in, violent conduct is the offence, the rules don't break it down further, whether you use your fist, a headbutt or a kick is irrelevant, the violent conduct is the offence you're punished against]Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Henry's did certainly, but that's irrelevant because incidents and fouls have to be judged on an objective basis. Now whether that should be the case, you can argue, but the fact of the matter is that it's the way things are.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
yes, but its about time that clear cheating such as deliberate handball, pulling back a player in the box etc before putting the ball in the net should be treated the same as offences that deny a goal scoring chance are. at the moment someone can fist the ball into the net in the hope of getting away with it and if they are caught, ah well, heres a yellow and dont do it again. defenders dont get such leniencyQuote:
Originally Posted by tiktok
Yeah, I think that'd be fair enough. Costing a goal by cheating should carry the same weight as scoring a goal by cheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
However, applying that retrospectively isn't a runner. You can only charge people against the rules that were there at the time of the offence, so henry really doesn't have a case to answer in terms of a ban, even if they did place one on him, he'd win on appealing it.
Could stand corrected on this one, - wasn't Brady's ban a UEFA imposed band as opposed to FIFA?Quote:
Originally Posted by jbyrne
Wasn't Brady sent off in that match? As the ref took no action against Henry, the matter ends there.
I'd agree with all this (indeed I posted the same thing on the last page, so tiktok probably just stole my idea).Quote:
Originally Posted by tiktok
What will be interesting to see is if / how FIFA so to try and make sure it doesn't happen again. It's all very well to say that "there are currently no rules under which he can be punished", but FIFA make the rules, and rules could be changed or introduced so that next time, there is a rule under which a player can be punished.
However I think FIFA are very very reluctant to introduce rules whereby foul play missed by the referee at the time can be reviewed and punished by video evidence afterwards. I'm guessing that they are worried about undermining the authority of the referee (which is the reason they're so against using video evidence during play as well).
Their message seems to be along the lines that it's a shame players get away with these kinds of things, but the situation is still preferable to introducing video evidence.
But there are other options aside from retrospective punishment , if they don't want to go down that route. Umpires? Technology etc?
There should at the very least be some lessons learned here, but no.
The level of apathy to what we lost due to the breaking of the fundemental rule of the game is shocking. It's galling. The fat **** was mocking us at one stage.
I hope the tournaments a disaster for them on every level.
As fans I think we have moved on from the desperation, the anger, the hurt etc that we felt in Paris that night. That doesnt mean that we have got over it or that what has happened is now ok. Our dream of a WC died that night in the worst possible fashion and for anyone to belittle that, doesnt understand imo.
The real issue here is that if the game was replayed tomorrow and Henry did the exact same thing, he would get away with it again. At the least lessons should be learned from this saga but it now looks like none will.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
was using the brady incident as an example of how a player can get a ban that affects his participation in a finals for something trivial that does not affect the scoreline or result yet a blatant cheat affects a result and gets to participate fully in the finalsQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
All well and good, but it's no precedent for a ban against Henry, as my post showed.
This is kinda the point Stu, it's time a precedent was set to deter this in the future
Put it this way - how many players do you think missed a drugs test before Rio Ferdinand? And how many missed one after?
i didnt say it set a precedent. just a comparison to illustrate how unbalanced the "rules" areQuote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Agree completely tets, but you can't pin that on Henry.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
They could put the rule in, as jbyrne has suggested, to level the playing grounds between denying a goalscoring opportunity and gaining false advantage to create a goalscoring opportunity [or some such Blather for Blatter] and punish both with Red Cards. Then if the Henry situation was to pop up again, you could point to what the player had done as a Red Card offence, therefore warranting a ban, and give him a ban.
The Rule has to come first, but sure we all know how likely that is with FIFA.
Henry handled the ball once in the match, the referee did not see it. Why should he be banned?? Robbie Keane handled it at least three times in the same match, but the referee did see these and gave free kicks, should he be banned too?? Or is it different for him because your wearing green tinted glasses??
Is it possible you have posted the same irrelevant point 161 times. I know you think this is a really clever point but we've all heard it now.Quote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
On the Henry decision it's a huge missed opportunity. It will be used to justify any cheating in future and shows the whole fair Play initiative as irrelevant
I still don't really see how they couldn't have applied the "gross unsporting behaviour" charge that they charged Rivaldo and Materazzi with, and that UEFA slapped at Raul (also for handball).
maybe because Materazzi and Rivaldo werent clever enough to cry on the phone to Sepp Blatter about how unfair it was that they were being made out to be such a bad guyQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
So if FIFA turned around and banned Henry for 3 games tomorrow, would you be happy if the said, after reviewing the game we have decided to ban Thierry Henry for 3 competitive games, we will also be banning Robbie Keane for the same offence??
but robbie got punished at the time i.e feekick. and also didnt cost a country millions of euro and breaking countless hearts, by cheating and failing to admit it, as aparently a world renound sportsman, icon and 'rolemodel' can be seen to say cheatings ok if your not caught.. henry let the sport down.... you dont justify your point of view by repeating it over and over. its time for change thats what everyone is trying to say.
its not ok to cheat period.
You seem to be unable to seperate the severity of the offences & the actions taken by the officials.Quote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
To use the Rivaldo example FIFA fined him because it was an especially bad case of feigning injury to try and get another player sent off. Personally the punishment did not go far enough because on a world cup stage it was again a great opportunity to hand out a ban and send a message but FIFA bottled it because it was Brazil. In the same tournament there were loads of other dives that went unpunished beyond a fee kick but FIFA did not need to act on these because they had acted on the worst offender(s).
You pick the most blatant offenders and punish them severely, it sends a message to the wannabe’s but as an English friend said to me, International football is like the premiership, its run for the big boys who are most marketable & can bring in the most cash.
actually 3 times in about 1 sec if you look closely enoughQuote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
Words fail me Weldoninhio.
I didnt want Henry banned.
I did want FIFA to take the opportunity to ensure this doesnt happen again.
They didn't.
So basically if any of you guys are coaches, you should now train the kids to handle the ball where at all necessary because they may gain an incredible advantage that will not be punished. :o:mad::rolleyes:
that does seem to be the message Blatter is giving doesn't it?Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
From absolving him of the foul, and then commenting that he himself bent the rules as a player, he really doesn't seem to be aware of what he's saying and what it means to football fans in general