you know the natives are getting restless when theres talk of 4231..... ;)
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you know the natives are getting restless when theres talk of 4231..... ;)
It's the boards equivalent of a mexican wave.
We've been playing 4231 since Trap took over. Nothing like that team, but with Robbie Keane dropping off the front man, Whelan and Andrews both holding the centre, and the wide men pushed on, are we really playing
---------- Given --------------
O'Shea Dunne St. Ledger Kilbane
Lawrence Whelan Andrews Duff
----- Keane ----- Doyle ------
or
---------- Given --------------
O'Shea Dunne St. Ledger Kilbane
------ Whelan Andrews --------
Lawrence --Keane -------- Duff
------------- Doyle -------------
None of which has anything to do with Seamus Coleman at all, so bringing it back to the point, would we be better trying him out in his O'Sheas position where he will be more natural, or the right wing where he played for Everton against Liverpool? The wing is probably where we could do with the cover, and any defensive vulnerabilities in his game are obviously less likely to be exposed further up the park.
It might sound like hyperbole - but is ex Sligo Rovers player Seamus Coleman, simply the most attack minded Irish player in the English league? With the exception of Doyle and Duff on their good days -- there is simply no Irish player as dynamic as the Killybegs warrior. He has played as a defender and winger and gets forward to supply and score goals -- at the highest level in English football. What more do you need to do to merit a place in the Irish team. He must get a run out in the Norway friendly and display his credentials.
Séamus is simply fearless and I'm glad that Moyes is now willing to trust him - he's come a long way from his baptism of fire in Lisbon.Quote:
Originally Posted by shellyriver
My neighour is an Evertonian and was at the game on Sunday. He said Coleman played really well and has a superb first touch.
Just not in defence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Predator
He needs to be a mostly unused sub for Hull or play for Derby County.Quote:
Originally Posted by shellyriver
Yeah, maybe a few sessions on the sunbed and a bleaching of his trestles might also garner further attention from Trap whilst knocking about those illustrious clubs near at the Pennines:cool:
Lads he's definitely gonna get his chance, lets be fair to Trap he still hasn't even started that many games in the PL. Yet, undoubtedly, it's a measure of our need for optimism that everyone is clammering for him to get a chance at the minute. He certainly has the attributes to trouble any defence: good touch, low centre of gravity, strength and pace.
I have not really seen much of him apart from his run last weekend but I was impressed with what I saw.
Trying to think of who his determination reminds me of ;)
He made Premiership reporter team of the week here, not bad going really, they should know their stuff!!
http://football.fanhouse.co.uk/2010/...-derby-triump/
Indeed. He'll be impossible to ignore anyway if he keeps this up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Docboy
That's true. Moyes has openly criticised Coleman's defending in the past, although it could be argued that he faces more competition for the right back slot, with Neville, Hibbert and Heitinga ahead of him.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
It's not that hard to pick the country's top 11 form players.
Coleman, is at present, the form Irish player in the Premiership. He's being doing it for two seasons, with exception of Lisbon game and a few iffy calls for penos -- he was central to Blackpool's promotion and has been a new creative power-house for Everton.
It's nothing new. Up here in Sligo and anyone who supports the League of Ireland has seen him literally slice through defences. He's just achieving recognition at highest level in England.
Level-headed guy, with great attitude and will to win. If Coleman doesn't get a start in the Norway game -- Trapp, along with a translator, he should be handed blue glasses and stick.
Literally slice through defences? Sure it wasn't Limerick and not Sligo he was playing for?
I keep saying this, Coleman hasn't done enough yet to suggest he should start ahead of any of the regular right fulls (O'Shea, Kelly, Foley) and is not as good a wingers as those ahead of him in the squad (McGeady, Lawrence, Fahey). He should be in the squad, but he's not going to be a regular starter for Ireland yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by shellyriver
Tets, your point is valid, but the reason we all want him to play against Norway is because he lacks inhibition and attacks at will. This is in contrast to the conservative and boring style Trap advocates and would excite any fan.
If Coleman is to play right full for Ireland he needs a run of games in that position for Everton. His defending is a little kamakazi and he still has a lot to learn defensively. However he is an exciting prospect, especially when attacking. At the moment, I think O’Shea, Kelly and Foley are ahead of him.
I doubt he will start the game but I would be disappointed if he didn't start the 2nd half or the last 30mins. He has pushed himself into the reckoning for a squad place.
Regardless of his own rational view on his bext team, I suspect that Trap recognises he is under a bit of pressure. His hints about flexibility after last week's games suggest this. If he's any good at managing his own PR he'll give a few young guys a look next month. Clark, Wilson, McCarthy and Coleman are the obvious candidates. The Wolves duo and Westwood may figure for part of the game. I think a look at Long & Doyle together would be useful at some stage. Any more changes than this would make a joke of the game.
...he also needs Trapattoni to pick Lawrence for the right-wing. I can't see Coleman and McGeady populating the right side of any Irish line-up under Trapattoni.Quote:
Originally Posted by drummerboy
...which is tet's point.Quote:
His defending is a little kamakazi and he still has a lot to learn defensively.
would love to see a team made up mainly of lads starting for their clubs each week preferably in the premiership no matter how inexperienced they are v norway. one of the main problems we had against russia was that we had far too many lads not playing for their clubs or playing for clubs at a low level. we couldnt live with the pace the russians played at as a result.
you've a really valid point there jb. coleman if he continues to start for the blues will make a compelling case for inclusion.
I accept the "starting for your club" argument, but the players who disappointed most and who didn't look match sharp were in central midfield and up front. Coleman isn't an option to replace these guys.
Who is Coleman competing with? Lawrence & McGeady have both been starting. Fahey may not be but he was excellent last week. John O'Shea is in and out at MUFC but will most likely stay at RB. Maybe if he was to move to LB, or if he was to partner Clark at CB (it'd make sense to give a debutant CB a more experienced partner than Sledge) it'd free up a slot for Coleman. Kelly and Foley are each at least as deserving of the full back role as Coleman in my opinion, just as Tets says.
If I was looking to rejig this team in November the players I'd be most inclined to start are:
McCarthy
Foley
Ward
Wilson (though 2 new CM's is unlikely)
Westwood (just to keep him feeling involved)
Long
That means sub appearances at best for Coleman, Clark and Walters.
Bear in mind that Hunt, Duff and Andrews might all be back fit. It's getting a bit crowded and changing things may not be as easy. Trap has said that winning the Carling Celtic thingy is important so only the Norway game is one he'd take any big risks in I reckon.
I agree except not with your first sentence. I don't think the pressure bothers him, but I think he was shocked by how easily Russia outplayed us and will look at new options purely because we need to improve.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Fair point, but the 'bit of pressure' is what occupies the space between the shock and looking at new options.
I think it's still pressure he's putting on himself, sort of the flipside of his own arrogance being that hates failing. When people talk about pressure you usually think pressure from the association or the media - the FAI are too scared to criticise him and he clearly doesn't give a fig about what the media has to say.
It's a very nuanced point. I'd say the situation rather than external pressure is what will drive changes, though he's a smart guy and will know that from a PR perspective he can fight off criticism by a few bold selections.
Sven was an expert at it for England. He picked who the press told him to pick most of the time. They could never criticise his selections!
Is it an arrogance to hate failing? I suppose it can be, depends who it is. Trap doesn't strike me as having a streak of arrogance, unlike a few managers we have crossed swords with. Primarily he is cautious & methodical in his approach, and has a deep sense of pride.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
On the other matter of pressure, it would have been impossible for him to operate as manager in all the various top managerial positions he has had, without being acutely aware of the responsibility and expectations of the job and deal with it at the same time. This is a results game and one point from the last two games is probably one point below his minimum standard. It would be foolish to hide behind Robbie's failure to strike for goal in a second half where we hardly had an effort. Trap was somewhat on the defensive after the Slovakia game when he faced the press.
He will bring new players in just as he has done all along, but he will do it methodically. The same method that was applied to Lawrence and Fahey will be applied to Coleman. These friendlies and the training will be used to give a serious look at a few candidates.
Beg to differ. O'Shea, a number of seasons, is what Coleman is now -- a versatile attack-minded defender-cum-winger, but with natural goal scoring/providing instinct. As for a comparison with Kelly it's odious. Foley he's a grafter but still not of same calibre as Coleman. Regarding wingers, Coleman is vastly superior to Lawrence and Fahey, along with being a harder grafter than McGeady. My point is Coleman is, with the exception of the aforementioned Duff (when not injured) and Doyle, on a good day, he is the most most attack minded Irish player in England. He deserves a start (don't care for how long).
Look aside to all the pyscho-babble re Trap's internal dialogues, re team selection, it doesn't take a genius to work out that with players of Coleman's calibre (ie top quality new blood) and they're aren't many, they need to be in the Irish side -- Ireland problem, aside to dodgy defending is complete sterility up front, with Keane's efforts showing that and management stating 'they alooking fora strika everya daya'!!!
yep and that was probably their most successful period in recent times, so perhaps the majority are generally right and not just the people with actual football experienceQuote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I agree with all, but I'm not reading too much into Longs last performance. Can't see him being able to sustain it. He's been too patchy for too long in my mind. Would like him to take a closer look at Walters, even if it's just the squad he makes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
I'm still not fully convinced about Ward. For example, I thought he was absolutley skinned by Hutton leading up to his concession of peno versus Spurs. I understand that is one specific incident but I've seen players ghost past him far too frequently in the past.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Yep, I've nagging doubts about Ward too and I should have included Stokes to the list.
Ireland A versus Ireland B would be an interesting game. Remember in rugby they used to have Probables versus Possibles for the benefit of selectors?
Funny enough a few years back people were saying the same thing about...Quote:
Originally Posted by shellyriver
...Stephen Kelly.Quote:
Originally Posted by shellyriver
He's certainly making a good case but he ain't a magic bullet. Take more than devil-may-care winger to change our mentality and cure our attacking ills. Just look at McGeady. Would give him a second-half run personally, and more exposure during the Celtic Cup.Quote:
Originally Posted by shellyriver
I wouldn't make any conclusions based on the nightmarish case study that is the England football team.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
It's not directly comparable, but 18 months ago Gareth Bale was seen as a suspect left back with attacking potential (at best). Now look at him. Superb. Do the same Seamie!
same against liverpool last year, its like he is almost too big for a full back. He gets caught out, a bit clumsy and not quick enough for a full back today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
Ya, how many goals did spurs concede last night again?Quote:
It's not directly comparable, but 18 months ago Gareth Bale was seen as a suspect left back with attacking potential (at best). Now look at him. Superb. Do the same Seamie!
Coleman has got one foot in the door already, it is a logical next step for Trap to give him some decent playing time.
Unfortunately for Stokes, I think Long has become the flavour of the month and Trap will pursue trying him out at the expense of Stokes who, imo, is a far better prospect for our team.
I'd pay to see it... More valuable and inclusive than a game against Forrest if nothing else!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88