It's all to play for...

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Originally Posted by geysir

I think our midfield is all right now. Eirebhoy is right in that we should /could be doing better or have good solid potential to take on teams and qualify for tournaments.
One of the important differences between now and then as Paddy G already pointed out is leadership quality (Carsley excepted). Our teams in the Charlton era were littered with club captains and captain quality.
Even in Eoin Hands time, a midfield with Daly, Grealish, Brady and Heighway, we'd do all right with that lot now.

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I think this current team would be very good if we had better (or fitter) central midfield.

I think the team lacks stature, both moral and physical. Leadership is one thing that's lacking, but I think Cyprus knocked some reality into some who were showing prima donna tendencies.

Physical stature is another thing. Whelan, McGrath, Lawrenson and Townsend were all the physical and athletic match for their opponents. These days midfielders are 6 feet plus and mobile. Look at Germany, Czech Rep. Slovakia and Cyprus: they towered over our lot. Have you seen the size of the Croatian XI? Australia and Scotland even. Italy's WC winning full backs were both about 6 feet 2 or 3.

Was it this thread where the impact of foreigners was cited, and it was contended that Houghton and others wouldn't sit down and let a foreigner take his place? That may be true, but it's also true that players like he and Aldo may never have played for the league champions in today's climate. Would Man U or Chelsea buy players from today's equivalent of Oxford?

It galls me to see a useless git like Samaras play for City when they let a talented player like Stephen Elliott go. There's a new route our players must take these days, and staying in the eLOI for longer or doing what Andy Keogh is doing is the way our players will emerge, as I don't think it can be denied that mediocre foreign imports crowd out Irish players.

I agree with you Stutt - I think you are dead right about our midfield.

I actually cited Keane as not being willing to let his place go to a foreigner. But I would contend that a player of Houghton's class, who almost never misplaced a pass, would still shine. You can afford one little guy if you can balance it elsewhere across the midfield.

Chelsea just bought a player from Reading. Liverpool bought two players who had just won the League Cup, Houghton being magnificant.

Fair enough, and clubs like Spurs frequently look at the lower division too for players I suppose. Reid, Dawson, & Huddlestone spring to mind.


If you stand out in the Championship the bigger move will probably come.

hows about this for a team then , I think S Reid will be at the fulcrum of the team for the future
Given
Finnan McShane Dunne O'Shea

Carsley S Reid A Reid

Keane Doyle Duff

Kinda like the Barcelona formation with Carsley taking the Edmilson/Motta role and Reids doing Xavi and Deco

Just something I discussed in the pub at the weekend most likely eirebhoy's suggested something very similar in the past

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Originally Posted by gustavo

Carsley S Reid A Reid

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god help us andy reid in there again ???

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Originally Posted by RogerMilla

god help us andy reid in there again ???

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Whats wrong with that? When fit he's by far and away the most talented midfielder we have. I'd definitely have a place for him in our midfield...he's a far better player than Ireland imho...

i dont think he has proved himself at all in an ireland jersey , thats whats wrong with that. i hope he does prove himself but as far as i am concerned he has not. also i cannot see ireland ever playign a 4-3-3 you need serious footballers in midfield to be able to pull that off and sadly midfield is where we are most deficient.

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Originally Posted by mypost

When we went ahead against Israel at home, we went for the second goal, and got it. Then.......

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Key words: "at home". When have we ever done it away? Amsterdam?

If we score we invite teams to attack us, almost always.

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Originally Posted by gustavo

hows about this for a team then , I think S Reid will be at the fulcrum of the team for the future
Given
Finnan McShane Dunne O'Shea

Carsley S Reid A Reid

Keane Doyle Duff

Kinda like the Barcelona formation with Carsley taking the Edmilson/Motta role and Reids doing Xavi and Deco

Just something I discussed in the pub at the weekend most likely eirebhoy's suggested something very similar in the past

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This looks like a solid enough team but i don't think stephen reid could play in the kind of role xavi or deco play. Andy reid def has the range of passing abilities to open up defences and keep possession at vital times in games but I'd seriously question whether S Reid would have that sort of control to his game - especially when he plays centre mid.

I'd agree with the startin eleven above but i'd keep S Reid out on the right, A Reid and Carsley in the centre and Duff on the left. Ireland would be a viable replacement for A Reids role.

Bit pointless considering Duff as an option, no?

Given
Carr or Finnan – Dunne – McShane – O’Shea

Finnan or A. Reid – Carsley – AN Other – Hunt

Robbie – Doyle

* AN Other: I think Stan may stick with Kilbane.

Both Reids if fit are an option, so is Ireland if you compress the midfield 3 behind him and play him more advanced.

I wonder if Darren Potter has a chance of playing himself into the team in time?

I don't like S. Reid RHM but I'd consider him RHM in a 4-3-1-2. Ireland or Andy Reid could be the "1".

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I wonder if Darren Potter has a chance of playing himself into the team in time?

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Playing regularly in central midfield for Wolves, did well on the US tour, moreso in the first game, we're bereft of central midfielders at the moment (if Carsley picks up a knock....) so I think he'll be in the squad

Given

O'Shea Dunne McShane Finnan

Carsley

S Reid Ireland Hunt

Doyle Keane


I think Stan will find a place for Kilbane though........

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Bit pointless considering Duff as an option, no?

Given
Carr or Finnan – Dunne – McShane – O’Shea

Finnan or A. Reid – Carsley – AN Other – Hunt

Robbie – Doyle

* AN Other: I think Stan may stick with Kilbane.

Both Reids if fit are an option, so is Ireland if you compress the midfield 3 behind him and play him more advanced.

I wonder if Darren Potter has a chance of playing himself into the team in time?

I don't like S. Reid RHM but I'd consider him RHM in a 4-3-1-2. Ireland or Andy Reid could be the "1".

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Think we were just discussing our best team at the mo with everyone fit. Could Duff possibly be fit for the Germany game? Hunt is without doubt the best replacement right now.

Anyway, regarding your above team, Carr simply isnt good enough for Ireland considering his performances for Newcastle ever since he went there (i think his injuries affected him badly), Finnan has to be played at RB and not wasted right mid (or LB for that matter). He's rock solid defensively and when he overlaps the right winger he opens up space aswel as putting in great crosses.

And i think its way too soon to consider Potter as a starter, he simply hasn't proved himself a better option than other possible CM such as Carsley, Ireland, the 2 Reids or even Kilbane

Link

saw this today .. Matthaus was sacked this week as Salzburg manager and has had talks with the Czech Republic about taking over. Just the sort of rumours I like to here .. bit of unrest with the Czechs etc.

He's not much of manager either .. was a disaster at Rapid Vienna ... so can't see how the Czechs would appoint him on his record so far ..

then again .. one word ... Stan

matthaus is a brutal manager , no loyalty to any team he has ever been with , hungary , red star (?) , etc etc , bring him on!!

I think for the last few games of Newcastle's season Carr made it back to the first team as soon as he was deemed fit (by Newcastle's standards).
Kelly probably will have a good chance be a premiership player.

We will have to wait and see how the Reids fare out in their club games. Their history has shown that their fitness level can not be depended upon.
What's best for the team, give Ireland & Hunt more and more playing time or relegate them whenever the Reids are match fit?

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

Playing regularly in central midfield for Wolves, did well on the US tour, moreso in the first game, we're bereft of central midfielders at the moment (if Carsley picks up a knock....) so I think he'll be in the squad

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i think if anyone proved himself on the US tour it was potter , definitely a case for inclusion and miles ahead of liam miller for example

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Originally Posted by RogerMilla

god help us andy reid in there again ???

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You don't think he's good enough, plenty do. I'm more suprised that you question someone thinking he's good enough for our team. You're saying he hasn't proved himself in an Ireland jersey. He settled into the Ireland set up as quick as anyone imo. I'm sure he's regarded very highly by the Ireland players.

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Originally Posted by lionelhutz

This looks like a solid enough team but i don't think stephen reid could play in the kind of role xavi or deco play.

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He could play the role Iniesta does, or the role Perrotta plays for Roma in a similar formation. I'm really gone off the basic 4-4-2 tbh but it's the safest bet at international level.

Personally I think you pick the formation that gets the best out of the players you have, or to cater for a particular situation.

If we had a Keane-Kinsella type partnership in CM, 4-4-2 would be hard to argue with in any situation, but we don't.