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Nothin for nothin lads, but it is sort of pointless rehashing the whys and wherefores of whether we were better or worse in this game or not, five years ago. Can you both look to the future and come up with some sort of way forward for the international team? I think everyone on here should be thinking for solutions tonight.Quote:
Originally Posted by the doc
Likewise, The Germany loss (1-6) in 2012 was something I could handle as they were brimming with world class players, I would say something if Denmark were a world class side oozing with talent but they're not aside from Eriksen. But they could pass and move and do the basics well, after the 3rd went in I knew it would be a rout. All of our failings were viciously exposed tonight. Heart and passion only get you so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by gastric
If the FAI want to look at a strategic plan I would recommend that they head north to Iceland and look what they are doing, but I won't hold my breath. We'll just plod along with you know who at the top of the pile.
And that's why Delaney frustrates me so much. Too busy protecting his position, not leading and repeated claims that the debt will be paid by 2020. Personally, I would rather the debt paid by 2100 if it meant money was spent on better coaching. As Mark said rather than pussy footing around dissenting groups, just cut ties with them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Comic Book Guy
A genuine scumbag? 4realz? I think I disagree with you on pretty much all of those challenges being designed to injure opponents btw although I concede I only saw them in real time (and I was more punch drunk than attentive as things went on).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingdom
This team are tightrope walkers and not necessarily good ones - when they make it all the way to the other side, they look heroic. When they fall off, they look idiotic.
So many feelings on tonight but for some reason I can't stop thinking about those half-time subs and our consistent inability to implement any kind of plan B.
No-one may like plan A but we can surely all agree that it basically comes down to not conceding and nicking a goal.
Against Wales at home, we needed a plan B. Didn't have it.
Against Serbia at home, we need a plan B. Didn't have it.
Before tonight, it wouldn't have taken a genius to work out there was a realistic chance we would go in at half-time one goal behind and needing two. So O'Neill responds by taking off two workhorse, combative midfielders for two passers who can't tackle butter.
Now, I appreciate the gamble inherent in this move. But how can we move from one tactical extreme (compact shape, defensive mentality, physical intensity) to another (passers, players looking for space, possession and interplay)? How does that make sense? Who was going to win the ball for us to play with it? Hendrick, who looked gassed after 30 minutes? Brady playing (please for the last time ever) in deep central midfield?
I almost think O'Neill saw us own the ball for 10 minutes before half-time and thought Denmark would sit back and let us have it...
I don't buy the game was over after 45 minutes, although we had dug ourselves a nice comfy hole. I just wish we had an idea of how to respond to the foreseeable situation we found ourselves in.
Was a bit surprised with the first 45, just expected us to wrap up and wait for the second half to go for a goal. Instead it was more like Serbia - thrash and metal, physicality, bite, pressure. At least we went for it, but, as ever, needed so much more composure. The problem with revving these players up is they're all the more likely to overheat.
It was always going to be a difficult without an away goal, they were happy to draw at how because they knew they would outscore us
in a non-defensive game.
On their day they are a very good side, Poland topped their group yet they beat them by 4 goals, they same margin they beat us, yet Poland are going to the World Cup!
I think they will do very well in Russia.
That's the best description of this side that I've read yet. Bravo Sir!Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
I'm not so sure. I think if a team is set up well against them and denies Eriksen space then you do nullify a big portion of their attacking game. I think Serbia and arguably Wales are more dynamic than them.Quote:
Originally Posted by tricky_colour
In Euro 2016 they finished third behind Portugal (understandable) and Albania and then lost to Sweden in the playoffs. For Wc 2014 they finished as the worst runners-up, behind Italy. Very slack results cost them points, they drew twice with Bulgaria and lost 4-0 at home to Armenia.
What gives you that impression? They played us off the park. Blew through defense and persistently forced mistakes, having run rings around midfield the forced the manager to implode tactically and isolated our impotent attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
I think much of last night was down to ourselves and especially the tactics. Denmark were good but we gave them so much space. If you contrast it with the first leg, where we pretty much nullified them, then you have to ask the question did we collapse (tactically) or did they somehow find a whole new level of playing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ccfcman
We've faced teams who have been significantly more technically good than Denmark in the last 3-4 years (Serbia, France, Germany, Bosnia, Conte's Italy, Belgium) and have never been as badly exposed (although Belgium was close). To me it's a bit of a misnomer to say the opposition was so technically superior they just blew us off the park, and to imply we never really had a chance.
Hendrick and Brady are at the age where they should be key players for us. And there are not. Whether this is down to the manager, the individual or a combination of both they are underperforming and it is frustrating to see last night's game pass them by.
I don't know how Christie stayed on the field after half-time.
Denmark are a decent side . I thought Sisto was excellent in both games and they showed a good understanding of each other.
O’Neill’s substitutions baffled me. I would’ve taken Ward off and put Brady in LB. Christie off and Meyler in RB. Then stuck Hoolahan and Long in. Our two full backs both made mistakes that led to Danish goals.
It makes no sense to take off our captain who was doing fine and has a calming influence over the team. Hendrick did nothing in th match and, even though, Arter was nutmegged by Sisto, Harry offered more energy.
Disappointing. It was a big gamble by O’Neill that failed miserably.
I’m not calling for his head though like most people. The team will have a little bit of developing to do now I feel with Hoolahan, O’Shea and possibly Walters, Whelan and Ward retiring.
If he just stood at the post instead of kicking the ball into the net who knows how this conversation would be going. I can't for the life of me figure out why his body is positioned the way it is. The worst goal we've ever conceded.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
We also need to stop taking the Denis O'Brien money.
The other small countries show that you don't need to pay 1.5 million a year to a coach to get success. You just need a plan.
As true now as it was 8 years agoQuote:
Originally Posted by Roy Keane
Once they went behind in the tie, they stepped things up with real purpose and as an organised unit.
Once we went behind, we collapsed tactically and mentally. It was difficult to watch, really.
Had actually forgotten about his input for that goal. But we lefted a 2on1 situation from the corner kick to start ...Quote:
Originally Posted by Real ale Madrid
In fairness this season they scored 4 against Poland.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
Winning by 4 goals in the process- like last night. Flawed fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Have calmed down a bit. Football is fine margins. We take one of those two chances when we were one nil up, or if Christie sorts his feet out, it could have been a different story. There was a snowball effect leading to the haplessness of the second half: that dumb equalizer, the poor tracking back for the second, the Danes playing with the pressure off, having to chase the game, the crowd quietening (like they always do when it goes wrong), players sniping at each other. We needed to score quick in the second half, but didn't, and the Danes were allowed to play at their ease and take the chances when they came. After the third most of the squad gave up, and everything that was teetering already collapsed.
Think the Germany game was worse personally, just because I think we played worse for longer in that game, while here it was really after the third that headless chickens reigned, on the pitch and off it. That's not to say that it isn't as bad as it looks. It's really, really bad.
Randolph - At fault for any of the goals? Don't think so, a couple of brilliant saves early that'll be forgotten now. I hope he doesn't get a stigma from this, like other keepers have in similar circumstances. He looked so furious after the third.
Christie - Disastrious. At fault for first two goals in a huge way.
Duffy - Tried I suppose. Only defender who looked bothered in the last ten minutes.
Clark - Struggled, can't pick out anything major he did wrong that I wouldn't lay at the feet of their whole defence. Was giving out to other players I noticed.
Ward - Oof, not as bad as Christie but fell out of the game after error leading to the second. Stupid mistake for fourth.
Meyler/Arter - Outplayed for large parts, but Ireland were a better team when they were on.
McClean - He does try doesn't he? That first half chance will haunt him, and they should have kept trying that avenue. Fell out of the game with rest of midfield in the second.
Brady - Has regressed a bit. Deliveries poor, link-up play vanished after 30 minutes.
Hendrick - He played apparently? Can't remember a single thing he did.
Murphy - Isolated, ineffectual. The usual.
Hoolohan - Threw himself around a bit, but he's not a miracle worker.
McGeady - Pointless to bring him on. Failed to beat his man with his first possession, passenger after that.
Long - Real "Might as well" feel to him being sent on in place of Clark. Another terrible miss, that'll continue to do his confidence a world of bad.
MON - Awful. No effective Plan B when we went behind. Last sub reminiscent of previous managers in reaction to setbacks. When it goes wrong under him, it really goes wrong.