Euro 2012 Squad Discussion

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Originally Posted by cavan_fan

The only alternative scenario is that he explained the situation to Trap who decided that he would be largely sat on the bench for 4 weeks and it would buy him player good will for the future if he said 'Take the summer off' rather than having a future key player getting annoyed that he was making a personal sacrifice to sit on the bench.

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That's probably closest to the truth I reckon.

I think it can be argued that this situation offers Trap an elegant escape from the popular calls to include a player he was unlikely to start. It definitely made the 24 into 23 maths easier.

From McCarthy's side it's hard to be critical. I don't think you can compare Wigan in February when the players get a couple of days off a week anyway to a minimum of 4 continuous weeks abroad. In general, English club football has moved international football to a more peripheral role than it used to be and that's just the way it is for now. I'm sure some players may have come regardless but I think given McCarthy's likely fringe involvement there's no damage done.

He's increasingly looking like a player we could do with but we'll have to wait. Jeez, he had some swagger about him last night.

I think that the PR disaster that this could have been if handled differently has been avoided and we can now begin preparations on the front foot. I don't think anyone has any serious complaints over this squad, some marginal nitpicks at best. The standby list is a bit unimaginative but no big deal.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

That's probably closest to the truth I reckon.

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Well its not unless you're implying Trap is lying. He said the player categorically ruled himself out and accommodating options were never explored. It's as simple as Trap declaring his interest to pick him and James responding with a rejection and explaining his reasons. I don't think there's anything more to it, he unconditionally rejected the call up.

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Originally Posted by Murfinator

I would say many of us in the back of our mind have doubts about McCarthy's commitment and this is the latest in a long line of incidents that would raise question marks on the subject. .

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I dont and never have done. I think James has confirmed his commitment to us often enough. I thinks its more those swayed by irrational sensational tabloid headlines/journalism that perhaps have that view. He's a young lad who has only just been brought in to the international fold over the last season or so and very much on the periphery at that. The slow introduction has made sense to me, as the lad was settling in to his new club at a higher level and the pressures of being with a Premiership club needed to be considered.

When playing in Wigan (or Blackburn as it was last night) you can be in Glasgow in 2 and a half hours. Players get midweek days off where he can travel up to see his folks. Being away in Italy/Poland/Ukraine for 3 or 4 weeks is a different kettle of fish. No doubt a man of Traps life experience was happy to help James through this difficult decision.

I said it elsewhere, but the lad is going to be a star for us in the next campaign - a key memeber of the 'spine' that all good teams should have.

If the old story is true, were it not for the wishes of a dying grandfather then McCarthy may never have donned the green jersey. It's cruelly ironic that circumstances surrounding another sick family member have served to impede McCarthy from representing the country of his grandparents on the biggest international stage (after the WC).

I'm fairly accepting of some people having doubts with regards to McCarthy's commitment as it has been an ongoing and well-documented issue for one reason or another for quite a while. But this is the biggest instance of McCarthy ruling himself out of selection for Ireland and with stakes so high from a personal perspective, then I feel he should be afforded much respect for doing so.

McCarthy is incredibly young at 21. A season in the premiership has probably taken it's toll on him. While McCarthy may have comprehended his chances of action were very limited, I think it's also a possibility that were he even to get some playing time McCarthy could have felt distractions would serve to affect his performance and so he would not do himself or Ireland justice.

In relation to him taking time out of his Wigan career for a month, Wigan is a damn-sight closer to Glasgow than Poznan is. So, if the illness has been at large for the last month then I'm sure McCarthy has been afforded more opportunities to spend time with his father than he could ever be during the Euro's, when all he will be afforded is a phonecall.

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Originally Posted by cavan_fan

I have been in a very similar situation and the key is everyone reacts differently of course.

Im not criticizing McCarthy. Its his decision to make and it is an understandable one. However it is clear not all players would do this. It also felt a bit odd that he was playing last night and will presumably play at the weekend v Wolves. I think there is a logical conclusion that playing for Ireland means less to him than playing for Wigan. Again, he's probably not the only player for whom this was or is true but as an Ireland fan I'd rather it was the other way around.

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You are speculating and making presumtions on a person's individual situation without knowing the full details, and noone will ever know, so I don't think anyone should be critical or question his commitment in this case. That can be reviewed another day if neccessary.

Obviously those who have experienced it with an immediate family member, can say ah what do you know etc, but everyone is different and thats the thing here.

I thought it was a fair question from TOD about trying to accommodate, obviously Trap did too as he responded and mentioned same. Tod himself was in this position so he could ask it. Someone mentioned terminal in the stuff about Mr Mccarthy but we dont have a clue what exactly is going on. The key point I found that Trap raised was that pyschologically he wouldn't "be there", i.e. he wouldn't be in the right frame of mind, and thats enough for me. It doesn't matter if he could fly in and out on the same day even, if he isn't there mentally then no point in having him at all.

Interesting though over the last few months his performances have improved for Wigan, i wonder has it somehow coincided with the bad news he received about his father.

Anyway all the best to James and his family, we will know in time how committed he is or isn't to Ireland - now is not the time for that.

Murfinator I imagine what ever player it was going to be you would question the committment, yet you know the ireland situation better than some and you empathise or are at least more understanding. Something tells me if it were a rugby player you would be sitting clearly on the other side of the fence defending the player.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I thought it was a fair question from TOD about trying to accommodate.

Interesting though over the last few months his performances have improved for Wigan, i wonder has it somehow coincided with the bad news he received about his father.

Anyway all the best to James and his family, we will know in time how committed he is or isn't to Ireland - now is not the time for that.

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Stupid question from TOD who should know better, wouldn't make a big thing of that though.

The whole Wigan team improved over the last few months???

As you said, no one should be questioning his commitment right now.

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Originally Posted by Murfinator

Well its not unless you're implying Trap is lying. He said the player categorically ruled himself out and accommodating options were never explored. It's as simple as Trap declaring his interest to pick him and James responding with a rejection and explaining his reasons. I don't think there's anything more to it, he unconditionally rejected the call up.

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Not suggesting Trap is lying at all. I'm suggesting that Trap was 100% supportive as he said, and decided not to labour the issue too far in order to keep the player's goodwill. As you know, the press conference yesterday was quite disjointed but the quotes in the press from a week ago, flagging that there was an issue that would be made clearer later, suggested that some accomodation of the player's circumstances might be being explored. Trap was aware that trying to talk James into going to Poland in these circumstances and then not picking him could have consequences for their relationship.

June's really the only month a footballer gets free, so is the only time James could spend some extended time with his father. Fair enough really, regardless of if he's still playing for Wigan.

All speculative, but if the worst was to happen (God forbid) I'd imagine James would regret not taking the chance to spend time with him.

It's ridiculous people are doubting his commitment - this is a hugely traumatic event and he has responded maturely and treated the FAI and the supporters with total respect. The fact is that if James really wanted to have summers off he would have declared for Scotland.

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

I'm fairly accepting of some people having doubts with regards to McCarthy's commitment as it has been an ongoing and well-documented issue for one reason or another for quite a while. But this is the biggest instance of McCarthy ruling himself out of selection for Ireland and with stakes so high from a personal perspective, then I feel he should be afforded much respect for doing so.

In relation to him taking time out of his Wigan career for a month, Wigan is a damn-sight closer to Glasgow than Poznan is. So, if the illness has been at large for the last month then I'm sure McCarthy has been afforded more opportunities to spend time with his father than he could ever be during the Euro's, when all he will be afforded is a phonecall.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

The key point I found that Trap raised was that pyschologically he wouldn't "be there", i.e. he wouldn't be in the right frame of mind, and thats enough for me.

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They're probably the key points I reckon.

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Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin

The fact is that if James really wanted to have summers off he would have declared for Scotland.

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Lol :)

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Originally Posted by Olé Olé

I'm fairly accepting of some people having doubts with regards to McCarthy's commitment as it has been an ongoing and well-documented issue for one reason or another for quite a while.

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The only reason it's "ongoing" or has been drawn out really is because he's so young and has yet to nail down a consistent starting place. If Trap had played him in every senior squad of which he has been part, people might be more acquainted with his regular presence. I don't think it's the player's fault. As far as I'm concerned, any time he has withdrawn from a squad, it's been for entirely legitimate reasons. Trap is clearly of the same belief, as demonstrated by the respect he showed for McCarthy in yesterday's press conference.

James played excellantly on monday night, i hope he is given his chance for us in september. Its a pity he won't be at the euros but in all likelyhood he would not have played any gametime even if he had been picked in the squad. Hope everything works out for him.

No surprises with the rest of the squad, Mcclean will do a bit of damage over there. Not long to go now. can't wait

I wonder what the record is for sending out press releases or commenting on how commited you are to a squad before age 22.
He has had to affirm his desire to play more times than he has been capped.

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Originally Posted by Murfinator

Well its not unless you're implying Trap is lying. He said the player categorically ruled himself out and accommodating options were never explored. It's as simple as Trap declaring his interest to pick him and James responding with a rejection and explaining his reasons. I don't think there's anything more to it, he unconditionally rejected the call up.

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And you know this as fact I assume? Haven't watched the press conference, couldn't be bothered because I can't understand Trap at the best of times but from what's been posted, you are saying he rejected it outright while others say Trap mentioned McCarthy wouldn't be mentally ready so there was no point.


I don't know how anyone can raise questions about his commitment. It's not just 4 weeks away from home either. It's four weeks away from home with a group of strangers. Ok, strangers may be too strong a word but he isn't close with anyone(pure speculation on my part but my opinion since he hasn't been involved for too long) so who he rely on for support? Wigan on the other hand is his second home. He's there 3 years? So he'd have built up good relationships and has said himself he loves it there.
Everybody deals with "personal problems" differently. Maybe being surrounded by friends in work helped keep his mind off things during the day? Maybe it was an escape from the trouble at home?

As if anybody with any semi decent relationship with a parent would do any different. Hopefully McCarthy's dad makes a full recovery but, and God forbid, things do go wrong resigning yourself to a month less with your parent at this point in their life would be hard to justify in my opinion. You'd forget sometimes, but McCarthy is only a kid as well, his whole career is still ahead of him and his priorities are spot on. It's hard to comprehend the comparision with playing a few games down the road from Glasgow (to a month in Poland) to be honest, even though there was obviously no harm meant.

Right but can we all agree that during the next campaign he is either in or out?

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Originally Posted by DeLorean

As if anybody with any semi decent relationship with a parent would do any different.

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Mick McCarthy left his father's deathbed to manage the team in Cyprus. I think people were very quick to overlook that when they turned on Mick post-Saipan.

I was wondering when that would pop up, there is a difference between the manager of your country, and a bit part player though. But the sentiment is the same.