Celtic Cup thread

I suppose a british team consisting of players from England, Scotland, Wales and those from Northern Ireland that would wish too could play against an Ireland team (Or Republic of Ireland if some prefer)
This would reduce the number of games (1 home and away= 2) to a practical number and would still be a nice competition between the British and Irish Isles.

Its such a good idea that I am surprised that nobody has thought of it before and it would have the added advantage of having FIFA as a cheerleader:D

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Originally Posted by Solitude Red

Just listening to some of the comments on here from the NI fans is confirmation if I needed any that they are not a team which can command my loyalty or support

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No problem. You support the Republic, that's fine. If you changed your mind and wanted to support NI too, equally fine.

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all this hatred of the South is rather depressing!

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What hatred? Three NI fans have posted regularly on this thread (which is basically the same old debate with an occasionally changing name, but more of that below). One of them dislikes the FAI and John Delaney to the extent he's boycotting the tournament to avoid giving therm any money. It'd be a bit thin-skinned to see that as particularly xenophobic, don't ye think?

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In general I don't think Republic fans really care that much about the 'IFA team'

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I'm sure you're generally right, at least to the extent that our seeing you as a main rival isn't reciprocated. But on this discussion (long-running, as above) you're dead wrong. A good number of your FAI-team-supporting pals enjoy posting the same 'let's take over [the] NI [team], even though the players are no good and the fans nsty sectarian bigots' schtick. Over and over again. In the most deranged case, hundreds of times on the same thread.

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There might be more support for it within the North than some NI fans care to acknowledge

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There's no support for it among fans of the NI team, because the one thing we can be certain they agree on is that they want to support NI. Not to see that team abolished/merged/sidelined by Derek Dougan's showbiz celebrity XI, however temporarily.

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It actually reminds me of when NI were on their worst run ever a few years ago and were only getting a few thousand at their games I remember the news were running items on whether it was time to do away with the NI team

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Ha ha. Do you only follow the news media when the NI side is losing regularly? Self-styled shock-jocks like Dunseath and Nolan run that ******** every time either we or the Republic fail to win a game. And sometimes even when we do. The logic seems to be that because we saw off Spain or England, add McShane or Whelan and a World Cup win would be almost guaranteed. If you're dim enough to take anything big Steven says on the subject seriously, you'll believe anything.

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Originally Posted by Osarusan

All that happens, again and again, is the same arguments, counter-arguments, insults and counter-insults, bulls**t and counter-bulls**t gets trotted out, with nobody ever changing anybody's mind about anything, nor (I'd imagine) having any hope or expectation of doing so

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Well, you never know. Of course Ardee Bhoy (to take the most frequent contributor to this issue) isn't likely to drop his 'I'll do anything for a united Ireland except actually live in it' stance anytime soon, but not everyone's that hard core. Of course I take your broader points, but the instinctive reaction to witless abuse is to defend against it. If that bores you, I'm afraid avoiding the thread may be best. But if- like me- you'd really like a gentler discussion of where to meet before the game for a beer etc., shall we grin and bear it?

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Originally Posted by Dodge

So maybe, just maybe peoplee could state their position once, and leave it at that

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I think not. Given that this thread is just the long-running argument with an occasionally-changing name, the only way you could do that is by banning everyone who repeats themselves.

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Originally Posted by Gather round

Of course Ardee Bhoy (to take the most frequent contributor to this issue) isn't likely to drop his 'I'll do anything for a united Ireland except actually live in it' stance anytime soon, but not everyone's that hard core. Of course I take your broader points, but the instinctive reaction to witless abuse is to defend against it. If that bores you, I'm afraid avoiding the thread may be best. But if- like me- you'd really like a gentler discussion of where to meet before the game for a beer etc., shall we grin and bear it?

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Except of course, as ever you're wrong on this. Especially on the point of a 'united Ireland', which the likes of you keep claiming will never happen anyway.
More pertinently you could of course take your own advice and avoid the thread....spare us all the nonsense about a 'gentler discussion'.

fantastic. Another thread to place on ignore.

What are you Aussie Boy, 12? Your own attitudes don't seem to have progressed much since the primordial soup.

Beautiful Gather Around. You win. Resorting to insults is brilliant. I am Irish born and bred by the way. I assume from where you live you are from Birmingham then? Idiot!

Tickets for the Ireland game are €35 bit steep for a glorified kick about and I cant understand where the FAI are going with 20 quid for the scotland match it should be the same as the cup final just to get a few extra heads in the stadium there is a real possibility of the Aviva being like a ghost town for this fixture.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Although I won't be attending myself, I want NI to win because we have a victorious run to maintain against you lot.

OK, it's only a one match run, but it's important nonetheless.

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Hopefully, we'll start to see some football based discussion breaking through.

You'll have to admit EG, we've won more of the formally "competitive" games between the two sides - (Ireland 3 N. Ireland 0, 1989 - Qualifier), (N.Ireland 0 Ireland 4, 1994 - Qualifier), (Ireland 3 N.Ireland 0, 1993 - Qualifier). - (just slagging - not intended in a nasty way, you'll understand)

That said, Belfast, Nov '93 gave us one hell of a fright.

I'd be genuinely interested to hear the Northern lads take on what Northern Ireland line-up they'd like to see for the tournament, some debate as to how the Ireland V Northern Ireland game could fare??

Why not??

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I'd be genuinely interested to hear the Northern lads take on what Northern Ireland line-up they'd like to see for the tournament, some debate as to how the Ireland V Northern Ireland game could fare??

Why not??

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Unfortunately, I think both line ups will be depleted for the ROI v NI game in May - I think the final games in the Premier League are scheduled for the Sunday before?

Players involved in play offs are unlikely to feature also.

That said, I expect the game to be competitive...a bit more than a "friendly".

With home advantage, and given that we are a PUB team, I'd expect the ROI to run out easy 4 or 5-0 winners.

It will not impair the taste of my Bushmills one iota.

We'll be big underdogs...however, we've been known to surprise some of the "big boys".

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

I suppose a british team consisting of players from England, Scotland, Wales and those from Northern Ireland that would wish too could play against an Ireland team (Or Republic of Ireland if some prefer)
This would reduce the number of games (1 home and away= 2) to a practical number and would still be a nice competition between the British and Irish Isles.

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Whilst a single UK team would have greater logic than a single UI team, I can assure you that it would be no more acceptable to NI fans (ditto the Scots, Welsh and yes, England fans)

Or is the unwillingness of football fans to lose their team that difficult to understand?

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

Its such a good idea that I am surprised that nobody has thought of it before and it would have the added advantage of having FIFA as a cheerleader:D

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Though I'm sure there are Member Associations of FIFA who resent to a greater or lesser degree the UK having four separate teams. But it really only affects the non-European countries every four years in that the UK theoretically has four opportunities to get a team to the WC Finals. And even that hasn't troubled them recently...

As for Europe, if anything, UEFA is happy for this to continue, since it gives Europe three extra votes at FIFA, rather important when you consider eg that between them, the various Pacific islands and West Indies have nearly as many votes as the whole of Europe. (This also explains UEFA's willingness to allow eg Faroes/San Marino/Andorra etc their own team, and their accomodation of Israel and Uzbekistan, despite their not actually being European)

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

Hopefully, we'll start to see some football based discussion breaking through.

You'll have to admit EG, we've won more of the formally "competitive" games between the two sides - (Ireland 3 N. Ireland 0, 1989 - Qualifier), (N.Ireland 0 Ireland 4, 1994 - Qualifier), (Ireland 3 N.Ireland 0, 1993 - Qualifier). - (just slagging - not intended in a nasty way, you'll understand)

That said, Belfast, Nov '93 gave us one hell of a fright.

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Pleased to oblige, old chap.

Anyhow, I take your point about the respective records. It's a shame that we only played you twice* during the period when we were clearly the superior team (1920's, 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's). That is, playing you relatively frequently during the period of your superiority (1990 - 2005?) has somewhat skewed the record.



* - When we drew in Dublin, then won in Belfast.

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Originally Posted by Wolfie

I'd be genuinely interested to hear the Northern lads take on what Northern Ireland line-up they'd like to see for the tournament

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As NB correctly points out, it's impossible to predict who'll be available. But if I were picking the team today, with no injuries etc, I'd play a 4-4-1-1 formation, as follows:

GK - Maik Taylor (Lee Camp of Forest to get a half?)

RB - Gareth Mcauley (Ipswich)
CB - Aaron Hughes (Fulham)
CB - Jonny Evans (Man.U)
LB - George McCartney (Leeds U)

RM - Niall McGinn (Celtic)
CM - Chris Baird - holding role (Fulham)
CM - Steve Davis (Rangers)
LM - Chris Brunt (WBA)

"No.10" - Paddy McCourt (Celtic)

Striker - Kyle Lafferty (Rangers)

Subs: Cathcart (Blackpool), Craigan (Motherwell), Barton (PNE), Clingan (Coventry), Healy (Sunderland) and Feeney (Oldham).

I actually suspect that that would be something like Worthington would pick, too, given the choice, but expect several of those players to be unavailable for one reason or other. He might also decide to experiment with fringe/young players a wee bit, too?

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

GK - Maik Taylor (Lee Camp of Forest to get a half?)

RB - Gareth Mcauley (Ipswich)
CB - Aaron Hughes (Fulham)
CB - Jonny Evans (Man.U)
LB - George McCartney (Leeds U)

RM - Niall McGinn (Celtic)
CM - Chris Baird - holding role (Fulham)
CM - Steve Davis (Rangers)
LM - Chris Brunt (WBA)

"No.10" - Paddy McCourt (Celtic)

Striker - Kyle Lafferty (Rangers)

Subs: Cathcart (Blackpool), Craigan (Motherwell), Barton (PNE), Clingan (Coventry), Healy (Sunderland) and Feeney (Oldham).

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Not a bad side, surprised you've had to put McAuley in at right back. Good player but thought you'd have a more suitable option. Maybe swap Hughes and McAuley around, as Hughes has played there in the past?
Baird the obvious choice but probably of more use to you in CM.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

But if I were picking the team today, with no injuries etc, I'd play a 4-4-1-1 formation, as follows:

GK - Maik Taylor (Lee Camp of Forest to get a half?)

RB - Gareth Mcauley (Ipswich)
CB - Aaron Hughes (Fulham)
CB - Jonny Evans (Man.U)
LB - George McCartney (Leeds U)

RM - Niall McGinn (Celtic)
CM - Chris Baird - holding role (Fulham)
CM - Steve Davis (Rangers)
LM - Chris Brunt (WBA)

"No.10" - Paddy McCourt (Celtic)

Striker - Kyle Lafferty (Rangers)

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Delighted to see you appear to have reappriased your view on Paddy McCourt. Could this be the man about whom you said:

"Quite simply, he is not fit or strong enough to play full-time professional football to a decent standard"

Of course you may be suggesting that playing for NI is not a decent standard of professional football, but if this a change of mind, who knows what to expect next?

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Originally Posted by joe_denilson

Not a bad side, surprised you've had to put McAuley in at right back. Good player but thought you'd have a more suitable option. Maybe swap Hughes and McAuley around, as Hughes has played there in the past?
Baird the obvious choice but probably of more use to you in CM.

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McAuley has been our regular RB for the last couple of years. It's not ideal, but it's a bit of a problem position for us and he's actually been OK for us there.

As for Baird, although he started out at RB, Southampton eventually moved him to Centre Back (due to a lack of pace, I assume), in which position he was their POTY.

At Fulham he was eventually moved to holding midfielder (it might have been Sanchez who first tried him there?), which was the position he played virtually the whole of last season for Fulham under Hodgson.

Currently Mark Hughes is using Dickson Etuhu in that role (a v.decent player, imo), with Baird reverting to RB for a few games early in the season. As it happens, Hughes has used 7 or 8 players at both RB and LB (even Damien Duff for one game!), before now settling on Pantsil at RB and Baird at Left Back.

I am convinced holding MF is his best position and with an otherwise attacking midfield, Baird provides much needed balance (imo).

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Originally Posted by Not Brazil

Unfortunately, I think both line ups will be depleted for the ROI v NI game in May - I think the final games in the Premier League are scheduled for the Sunday before?

Players involved in play offs are unlikely to feature also.

That said, I expect the game to be competitive...a bit more than a "friendly".

With home advantage, and given that we are a PUB team, I'd expect the ROI to run out easy 4 or 5-0 winners.

It will not impair the taste of my Bushmills one iota.

We'll be big underdogs...however, we've been known to surprise some of the "big boys".

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Under Trap we'd be lucky to beat an actual pub team by more than one goal. We'd go 1 up after 2 mins and then it would be long balls up the pitch, backs to the wall for the next 88 minutes.

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Originally Posted by third policeman

Delighted to see you appear to have reappriased your view on Paddy McCourt. Could this be the man about whom you said:

"Quite simply, he is not fit or strong enough to play full-time professional football to a decent standard"

Of course you may be suggesting that playing for NI is not a decent standard of professional football, but if this a change of mind, who knows what to expect next?

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And neither was he fit or strong enough to play when I posted that, as evidenced by the fact that Strachan/Mowbray/Lennon (Celtic) and Worthington (NI) all declined to pick him (other than for the occasional few minutes, in the less important games).

I also posted that nothing would please me more than to see Paddy strutting his stuff in an NI shirt, fitness permitting.

And this season he has already played more football for Celtic than in the previous two seasons put together, which indicates that he may finally have found the necessary fitness and strength.

As for NI, Worthington has been true to his word when he formerly declared that Paddy needed to be getting more game time for Celtic to be picked for NI, but that if he (Paddy) should, then he (NW) would reconsider.

Consequently Nigel picked him to start our last game (a friendly v Morocco in November), though in an unexpected position between midfield and attack, Messi-style! And as it happens, he was very impressive there, notwithstanding that he had to sit out the second half, injured.

Therefore on the basis that "when the facts change, I change my opinion", I would continue that experiment, at least in non-competitive matches.

Let's hope his time has finally come, since I could see him torturing the likes of Paul McShane, Alex Bruce or Kevin Kilbane, given the chance! ;)

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Under Trap we'd be lucky to beat an actual pub team by more than one goal. We'd go 1 up after 2 mins and then it would be long balls up the pitch, backs to the wall for the next 88 minutes.

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I'm a bit more optimistic than NB - assuming our starting XI isn't too depleted, I think the game will be hard-fought.

Of course, with home advantage etc, I'd still make ROI favourites to win, but perhaps the "Derby" element might allow us to sneak a draw? After all, it most certainly did in Nov.93, when you had much the superior team, and everything to play for, yet still were just lucky enough to get a draw.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I'm a bit more optimistic than NB - assuming our starting XI isn't too depleted, I think the game will be hard-fought.

Of course, with home advantage etc, I'd still make ROI favourites to win, but perhaps the "Derby" element might allow us to sneak a draw? After all, it most certainly did in Nov.93, when you had much the superior team, and everything to play for, yet still were just lucky enough to get a draw.

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I'd be hopeful that we'd rest players against NI and use the more testing Scotland game as preparation for the qualifier against Macedonia (away). The English season ends just a couple of days prior to the game, so rest for Trapattoni's expected starting line-up for Macedonia would be advisable.

As NI don't have a June qualifer to play, I'd expect them to be more determined and motivated to get a result, all the more so as the game is being played in the Capital.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

I'd be hopeful that we'd rest players against NI and use the more testing Scotland game as preparation for the qualifier against Macedonia (away).

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On what do you base your opinion that Scotland will prove "more testing"?

Their current lofty status at 52nd in the FIFA rankings, perhaps? Though to be fair, it's an improvement of 5 places from a couple of months earlier...
http://www.fifa.com/associations/ass...r=m/index.html

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Originally Posted by ifk101

The English season ends just a couple of days prior to the game, so rest for Trapattoni's expected starting line-up for Macedonia would be advisable.

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Alternatively, Trap might decide that a full "dress rehearsal" would be more beneficial than a rest?

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Originally Posted by ifk101

As NI don't have a June qualifer to play, I'd expect them to be more determined and motivated to get a result,

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Good man, get your excuses in early.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

... all the more so as the game is being played in the Capital.

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Which one, Belfast or London?

P.S. You've already used up that excuse the last time we played - and beat - you in Dublin. Perhaps you'd better try the "shiny new stadium" excuse this time?

I can see Trap's tactics ensuring a 0-0 dour draw against NI and us putting out alot of reserve players.