One trick / on your bike Trap moanfest

Nothing wrong with having 2 of Duff, McGeady and Hunt on the bench.

James Lawton in today's Indo

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...d-1696907.html

Good writer but I always feel he gives only peripheral thought to Ireland, presumably fulfilling a contract with Indo Group. I think criticism of the Bulgaria performance is more than warranted for example. The sub-editor's caption "12 points is a remarkable haul" may as well have been penned by Marion Finucane.

He makes a very good point about Steven Ireland.

Do they really expect a man of Trapattoni's experience and achievements to surrender career-long values to the alter of Stephen Ireland's whim? Would you want to build your team around talent so eccentrically and selfishly housed? Would you want to go to the tightest of corners with nearly half a planeload of self-absorption?

It reminded me of a talk I attended by Clive Woodward saying how he selected his WC03 squad. It wasn't just based on ability, it was based on character and personality. He wanted no whingers, only positive characters. He said that just one "termite" could bring the whole thing down. This is very relevant in the context of the Steven Ireland debate.

Not knowing the full Andy Reid story it's hard to know how relevant it is in his context, but I expect that's Trap's thinking.

I think Lawton misses the mark by saying that the clamour for Reid & Ireland's inclusion may be misguided because neither is proven at the highest level. Very few Irish players will ever have a chance to be proven at that level, but logical examination may lead to conclude that they're among our best players.

We are not in football to live in the real:)

I liked this bit, referring to one of Kerr's musings,
"Let's hope such thinking doesn't permeate too much of a debate already festooned with outrageous examples of woolly thinking".

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Originally Posted by cestlavie

I cant stand watching Ireland at the moment, I have been giving Trap the benefit of the doubt up until now as we were still in with a good shot of qualification. Horrible football, I mean people pay good money to watch such tripe, you are supposed to be entertained, I pity poor Doyle who is a quality player who has been a shining light for league of Ireland football.
What is Bradys role, surely he has to has some influence, how can he stand over the type of football we are trying to play, he was shafted by Charlton as he probably played too much football, we had players in that generation that had to compromise their playing style in persuit of results no matter what. He should be ashamed of himself.

Seriously lads, I would be happy if I could see signs that we are building a good football team for the future but i cant see it under the present regime, we are making no progress and its not going to happen if we are forced to put up with this tripe. The worst thing that could happen this team is to somehow gain qualification because we would be a brutal addition to the world football scene and Trap and Co would feel fully vindicated, Sorry to say but its time to go Trap. Its too painful to watch.
And its no excuse to say like Fianna Fail (all the problems are caused by the world recession, coz I am not buying that!), we dont have the players, their are players but we dont pick them and we are not encouraging those players to commit to our country, I wonder why?

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I wrote this March 2009 Its a pity but the nightmare appears to have been played out.

Lets see if the one trick pony can overcome his failings with lack of tecnical awareness fear to make changes Not letting the team play football and inadequate squad selection.

The world cup is only around the corner.

We will hopefully be able to compete for 2nd place with Austria but only if Trap is bold enough to admit he has made errors & embraces change. He has placed faith in some of the squad but obviously hasnt to date trusted and placed faith in Irish players as a whole.

We are better than what we have seen. Sure the other teams are in top ten of the world rankings for a reason. It was always going to be hard but if you dont have faith in the players on the bench you cant have a plan B.

Why are we prepared to settle for this . Time to bring in a new coach with fresh ideas. Look at Donegal, they had to change and change for the better. Once you have a team and players who have faith in a system and the management it will bring you far. Not this charade under present management guided by an amaturish incompetent FAI right down to grass roots. They and Trap will kill off football in an already challenging environment.

You're making a false assumption that the players are better then we see through Trap's system. You don't seem to understand that this disjointed mess is the fate of all teams whose players are reared in the EPL. Wales are bottom seeds, Scotland and NI continue to get worse. The only way England can beat teams is with power and speed, the second they come up against a decent side with an ounce of technical ability they're dead. The only way we can beat teams is keep our shape and discipline, try to nick something from the great levelers that are set pieces or long balls.
We have to work on the basis that absolutely everyone will be better technically and skilled than us, if we tried to play an expansive game on the ground against the Kazakh's it was apparent yesterday that they would have bested us. I don't believe our player pool are capable of playing a modern game, we have the choice of trying to and failing or following what the route of Chelsea, England etc and making up for their limitations with a defensive, ugly game.

I do genuinely believe having watched our players the past few years that the likes of the armenians and even the kazakhs are player for player more skilled than our lads. We'll look good of course against other kick and rush teams like we did in the nations cup, sadly there aren't too many of them any more.

Muff you do write some cr@p..

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Originally Posted by Murfinator

You're making a false assumption

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Everyone else is wrong.

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Originally Posted by Murfinator

I do genuinely believe

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I are right.

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Originally Posted by Murfinator

You're making a false assumption that the players are better then we see through Trap's system. You don't seem to understand that this disjointed mess is the fate of all teams whose players are reared in the EPL. Wales are bottom seeds, Scotland and NI continue to get worse. The only way England can beat teams is with power and speed, the second they come up against a decent side with an ounce of technical ability they're dead. The only way we can beat teams is keep our shape and discipline, try to nick something from the great levelers that are set pieces or long balls.
We have to work on the basis that absolutely everyone will be better technically and skilled than us, if we tried to play an expansive game on the ground against the Kazakh's it was apparent yesterday that they would have bested us. I don't believe our player pool are capable of playing a modern game, we have the choice of trying to and failing or following what the route of Chelsea, England etc and making up for their limitations with a defensive, ugly game.

I do genuinely believe having watched our players the past few years that the likes of the armenians and even the kazakhs are player for player more skilled than our lads. We'll look good of course against other kick and rush teams like we did in the nations cup, sadly there aren't too many of them any more.

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Trap is obviously of the same mindset, players are not even given a chance to show if they can make a difference, You cant fail if you dont try.

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Originally Posted by cestlavie

Trap is obviously of the same mindset, players are not even given a chance to show if they can make a difference, You cant fail if you dont try.

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Two campaigns and one game unbeaten away from home. Sack the manager!! We should be winning all our away games at least 0-3 playing beautiful football with bottom of the basement EPL and Championship players. Portuguese manager should be sacked as well just winning 1-2 away to Luxembourgh. Mcarthy should be played. Ooops he was and was as bad as the rest. McLean should be played. He will change everything. He is playing for Sunderland afterall.

Far away hills are always greener in football. Another manager, another player, another system will always make things bette with the worst Irish squad in living memory. I am no huge fan of Trap but his team somehow gets results in these far flung outposts. I don't understand Cox playing on the right but hell we won.

How many scalps have we taken since the Trap era started? What decent sides have we actually beaten in a competitive game?

It's dog **it football and nothing has changed since June. If we are gonna lump it every time then what is the point of playing Robbie?

Playing an in form winger on the wing instead of a striker isnt rocket science. McClean is playing in front of big crowds EVERY week so I'm sure he could handle the atmosphere last night.

There is obviously tension
In the camp. Long, Gibson & McClean have all spoken out in recent weeks & once the dressing room goes against you it's an uphill battle. He had his 2 campaigns & time for a new regime.

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Mcarthy should be played. Ooops he was and was as bad as the rest. McLean should be played.

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Would the great system Trap employs have anything to do with this?

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

How many scalps have we taken since the Trap era started? What decent sides have we actually beaten in a competitive game?

It's dog **it football and nothing has changed since June. If we are gonna lump it every time then what is the point of playing Robbie?

Playing an in form winger on the wing instead of a striker isnt rocket science. McClean is playing in front of big crowds EVERY week so I'm sure he could handle the atmosphere last night.

There is obviously tension
In the camp. Long, Gibson & McClean have all spoken out in recent weeks & once the dressing room goes against you it's an uphill battle. He had his 2 campaigns & time for a new regime.

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Surprised this statement from Long wasn't given more publicity: http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/my...e-3217547.html

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

How many scalps have we taken since the Trap era started? What decent sides have we actually beaten in a competitive game?

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Are there any more points for beating "decent sides" than for Kazachstan?

This is a LEAGUE basis. It's won and lost over TEN games. It rewards consistency over a long campaign of games. Not just over "decent sides" or two minutes against Kazachstan.

We don't have to beat decent sides in this group. We just have to get more points out of it than Austria and Sweden. If we do that, we'll make the playoffs, then we have a 50/50 chance of going to Brazil.

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

How many scalps have we taken since the Trap era started? What decent sides have we actually beaten in a competitive game?

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Did we ever achieve scalps with any great frequency before Trap took over? I'd echo what mypost has said.

The Mick era had a few - Croatia, Yugoslavia and Holland at home, and we ran all three very close away too (particularly the Dutch, should've beaten them). Since then nothing springs to mind.

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

The Mick era had a few - Croatia, Yugoslavia and Holland at home, and we ran all three very close away too (particularly the Dutch, should've beaten them). Since then nothing springs to mind.

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That Croatia game sticks in my craw. And will do so forever.

That Yugoslavia game in Lansdowne is one of my favourite games ever. Kennedy's goal is one of my favourite goals ever.
That up until the Croatia was the best campaign ever.

Were unlucky against the Croats away but got very luck against Malta a few days later.....swings and roundabouts!

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Originally Posted by Junior

Were unlucky against the Croats away but got very luck against Malta a few days later.....swings and roundabouts!

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My couch wasn't so lucky! Wrecked the arms on the chair after the Suker goal.

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Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton

The Mick era had a few - Croatia, Yugoslavia and Holland at home, and we ran all three very close away too (particularly the Dutch, should've beaten them). Since then nothing springs to mind.

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That's true, but those results occurred over a period of three or four years and the last of them was six years prior to Trap taking over. Whilst they did indeed amount to scalps, I'm not sure if they'd really suggest scalps were an all-that-common occurrence. It also has to be remembered that we did come painfully close to competitively beating Italy at home under Trap and you could say we beat France away over 90 minutes. It took an infamous William Gallas goal to even up the score on the night in extra-time.