League of Ireland in Europe 2016

Ex Cork City player Leon McSweeney is as clueless as a commentator as he was as a footballer

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Opinion: Greed And Acceptance Of Mediocrity To Blame For Dundalk’s Champions League Exit

Unfortunately, Dundalk didn’t help themselves. The game was lost not on the field but in the Dundalk boardroom and their decision to play the first leg at the Aviva Stadium. Finances aside, there’s not a great argument supporting the view that playing at the Aviva Stadium would improve the team’s chances of achieving the seemingly impossible feat of Champions League qualification. In fact, quite the opposite.

The very decision to go to the Aviva screamed the club’s lack of belief in their own team’s chances of progression. They saw the game as a bonus and wanted to milk it. Typical.

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It also reflects badly on the editing team at Pundit Arena that they would be so out-of-touch not to spot the obvious error which is the premise for the article

http://www.punditarena.com/football/...rsaw-tie-lost/

I tell you one team I hope Dundalk get in the Europa, Young Boys of Berne. Absolute hammering in both legs, against Borussia Munchengladbach. But they were also pretty rubbish against Shakhtar Donetsk in the previous round, it was a case of who could be bothered to get through.....two bad teams
Also a handy trip for me:)

As for the Legia Dundalk game, Dundalk did great against a better resourced and conditioned team, a team who could always raise the level if needed. At that level its the tempo and fitness that affects the smaller teams. I dont think the Dundalk had anything left in the tank.
Its a big ask to expect them to suddenly become CL material. It really is stage by stage.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Rovers weren't seeded in 2012. Dundalk may be seeded if they draw one game, probably will be seeded if they win a game and almost certainly will be seeded if they can earn 3 points in the group

If they win the league of course

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Unfortunately not. It makes no direct difference to Dundalk's coefficient whether they win one match or none. The 2 points they've received for getting to the EL group stages are not in addition to whatever they pick up through wins and draws once there. For example last year Qabala from Azerbaijan reached the group stages which is worth 2 points, they also picked up two draws there (also worth 2 points) but their total coefficient for the year was still just 2.8 (the other .8 coming from the league part).

So Dundalk have no real chance of being seeded unless they can pick up three coefficient points in the group stage.

Plzen, Apoel, Young Boys. Those teams would barely fill Tallaght but that is a group Dundalk could do well in.

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Originally Posted by Ezeikial

Ex Cork City player Leon McSweeney is as clueless as a commentator as he was as a footballer



It also reflects badly on the editing team at Pundit Arena that they would be so out-of-touch not to spot the obvious error which is the premise for the article

http://www.punditarena.com/football/...rsaw-tie-lost/

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He wasn't long regretting it.

http://foot.ie/attachment.php?attachmentid=2455&stc=1

This is a clip of Cork Hibs against Borussia Moenchengladbach in 1971 https://youtu.be/a45aiacu6QM

All of the goals came within the first 20 mins afaik. Don't let anyone tell you that the standard was better back then. We've come a long way!

We may as well enjoy this year in Europe. With UEFA expected to announce changes to CL format tomorrow, come 2018/19, it will be a whole lot harder to even get to this stage where you had Dundalk knocking on the door of the Groups.

Lot of outlets saying Top 4 Teams from the Top 4 Leagues will qualify automatically for CL Group Stages. That leaves 16 places for Teams from the other 48/49 Leagues to battle for. I'd also expect the Champions Path to be scrapped to make it easier for Teams from France, Portugal etc.. to qualify.

UEFA will sugarcoat the pill to make it less bitter to swallow by increasing prize money for qualifying rounds and what option to do Teams have anyway, for many it is their biggest source of revenue. I hope they change the name of the Champions League, as it's future format never mind it's current incarnation is a mockery to Champions around Europe.

It seems the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many!

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Originally Posted by Pablo Escobar

This is a clip of Cork Hibs against Borussia Moenchengladbach in 1971 https://youtu.be/a45aiacu6QM

All of the goals came within the first 20 mins afaik. Don't let anyone tell you that the standard was better back then. We've come a long way!

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I thought that was a spike milligan clip or laurel and hardy clip when i looked at it without the sound. Did the keeper thing he was the last CB or something, he never once seemed to dive. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by ger121

Plzen, Apoel, Young Boys. Those teams would barely fill Tallaght but that is a group Dundalk could do well in.

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Those teams carry fanatical away support though, particularly APOEL. I'd imagine Dundalk will play in the Aviva regardless.

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Originally Posted by ger121

We may as well enjoy this year in Europe. With UEFA expected to announce changes to CL format tomorrow, come 2018/19, it will be a whole lot harder to even get to this stage where you had Dundalk knocking on the door of the Groups.

Lot of outlets saying Top 4 Teams from the Top 4 Leagues will qualify automatically for CL Group Stages. That leaves 16 places for Teams from the other 48/49 Leagues to battle for. I'd also expect the Champions Path to be scrapped to make it easier for Teams from France, Portugal etc.. to qualify.

UEFA will sugarcoat the pill to make it less bitter to swallow by increasing prize money for qualifying rounds and what option to do Teams have anyway, for many it is their biggest source of revenue. I hope they change the name of the Champions League, as it's future format never mind it's current incarnation is a mockery to Champions around Europe.

It seems the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many!

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It's absolutely disgusting. You'd love to know what lobbying, if any was done by the FAI with this. Soccer is being murdered by the top teams.

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Originally Posted by Pablo Escobar

This is a clip of Cork Hibs against Borussia Moenchengladbach in 1971 https://youtu.be/a45aiacu6QM

All of the goals came within the first 20 mins afaik. Don't let anyone tell you that the standard was better back then. We've come a long way!

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Remember that game well. That Moenchengladbach team were something special that day & Netzer gave a master class in midfield. They lost out (were robbed) in the 2nd round by Inter Milan.

Complements of Wikipedia.

20 October 1971

Borussia Mönchengladbach	7–1	Internazionale
Heynckes 7', 44' Le Fevre 21', 34' Netzer 42', 52' Sieloff 83' (pen.)	[1]	Boninsegna 20'

Monchengladbach

This game was annulled as Inter player Roberto Boninsegna was hit by a Coca-Cola can in the 29th minute. The first leg game was replayed after the game that was originally scheduled to be second leg was played 0-0, thus the order of legs was switched.

3 November 1971

Internazionale	4–2	Borussia Mönchengladbach
Bellugi 10' Boninsegna 13' Jair 57' Ghio 90'	Report	Le Fevre 38' Wittkamp 89'

Milan

Lads,

Ireland co-efficient now is now 5.825 and thus we are in 41st placed. I hear people on here saying that Dundalk get 2 points as they got to Europa league group stages so do we go up 7.825? I don't think so but just checking this out! Also if Dundalk was to win or drawed a game in Europa league group, whats points towards the co-efficient do they get, thanks

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Originally Posted by swinfordfc

Lads,

Ireland co-efficient now is now 5.825 and thus we are in 41st placed. I hear people on here saying that Dundalk get 2 points as they got to Europa league group stages so do we go up 7.825? I don't think so but just checking this out! Also if Dundalk was to win or drawed a game in Europa league group, whats points towards the co-efficient do they get, thanks

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To your first question. No the 2 points don't go towards our overall co-efficient, just towards Dundalk's Club total.

As the minimum reward for qualifying for the EL Group, teams get 2 points. Therefore Dundalk will need at least a win and a draw (or 3 draws) to add anything to their club co-efficient i.e. 3 points instead of 2 points

On that last point, to have any chance of being seeded in the CL next year, presuming of course they win the League, they'll most likely needed 2 wins or a win and 2 draws. However, a win and a draw could be enough based on last years' seedings.

Dundalk get 2 points for a win, and 1 point for a draw from here on. The league gets half that, 20% of that is added to each clubs total going forward.

Each win from here on is worth 0.10 to each club, and each draw is worth 0.05. In the qualifying rounds wins were worth 0.05 and draws 0.025

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Originally Posted by ger121

As the minimum reward for qualifying for the EL Group, teams get 2 points. Therefore Dundalk will need at least a win and a draw (or 3 draws) to add anything to their club co-efficient i.e. 3 points instead of 2 points

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Are you sure on that? I've never seen that written down anywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_c...ub_coefficient
This link (which could obviously be wrong) says teams get 2 points for participation, and then 2 points for a win, and 1 for a draw.

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Originally Posted by swinfordfc

Lads,

Ireland co-efficient now is now 5.825 and thus we are in 41st placed. I hear people on here saying that Dundalk get 2 points as they got to Europa league group stages so do we go up 7.825? I don't think so but just checking this out! Also if Dundalk was to win or drawed a game in Europa league group, whats points towards the co-efficient do they get, thanks

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From wiki:

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This coefficient is determined by the results of the clubs of the associations in the UEFA Champions League and the UEFA Europa League games over the past five seasons. Two points are awarded for each win by a club, and one for a draw (points are halved in the qualifying and playoff rounds). Results determined by extra time do count in determining the allocation of points, but results determined by penalty-shootouts do not affect the allocation of points, other than for bonus points given for qualification into the latter rounds of the Champions League or the Europa League. The number of points awarded each season is divided by the number of teams that participated for that association in that season. This number is then rounded down to three decimal places (e.g. 2⅔ would be rounded to 2.666).

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So, this seasons results in Europe so far:

Dundalk: won 1, drew 3, lost 2 (4.5 total, incl extra 2 points for EL group stage)
Cork: won 2, drew 2, lost 2 (3.0 total)
St Pats: won 1, drew 1, lost 2 (1.5 total)
Shamrock Rovers: drew 1, lost 1. (0.5 total)

Total: won 4, drew 7, lost 7 (11.5 total, incl EL points)

Divide by four teams in Europe and that gives 2.875 points this season so far, as far as I can make out. Kassiesa has it as 1.875 so far though. So I'm not sure where I'm going wrong. If there's an error on his site, that takes Irelands total up from 5.825 to 6.825.

From this, that takes Ireland up to 37th in the rankings by my calculation. There's a cluster of nations above Ireland in the rankings with no clubs left in European competition that are within catching distance. Although, it would take two wins by Dundalk to lift Ireland to 36th above Finland.

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Originally Posted by swinfordfc

Lads,

Ireland co-efficient now is now 5.825 and thus we are in 41st placed. I hear people on here saying that Dundalk get 2 points as they got to Europa league group stages so do we go up 7.825? I don't think so but just checking this out! Also if Dundalk was to win or drawed a game in Europa league group, whats points towards the co-efficient do they get, thanks

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Originally Posted by El-Pietro

Are you sure on that? I've never seen that written down anywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_c...ub_coefficient
This link (which could obviously be wrong) says teams get 2 points for participation, and then 2 points for a win, and 1 for a draw.

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Neither had I but someone else posted about it a page or so ago so I looked into what he had said based on Bert's site and it's looks to be accurate. Look at the following link of last years' team co-efficient earned for 2015/16

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/...tcoef2016.html

OP gave an example of Gabala making EL Group Stage, getting two draws but still only earning 2.8 something - 2 points minimum for EL qualification + Country co-efficient percentage. I also looked at Celtic who got 3 points in total so guess was a win and a draw for them in the Group, hence extra point on top of the 2 points already received qualified.

Hope I'm wrong,as much harder for Dundalk to get the required points to b seeded next year should they qualify as Champions.

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Originally Posted by El-Pietro

Are you sure on that? I've never seen that written down anywhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_c...ub_coefficient
This link (which could obviously be wrong) says teams get 2 points for participation, and then 2 points for a win, and 1 for a draw.

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Originally Posted by ger121

Neither had I but someone else posted about it a page or so ago so I looked into what he had said based on Bert's site and it's looks to be accurate. Look at the following link of last years' team co-efficient earned for 2015/16

http://kassiesa.home.xs4all.nl/bert/...tcoef2016.html

OP gave an example of Gabala making EL Group Stage, getting two draws but still only earning 2.8 something - 2 points minimum for EL qualification + Country co-efficient percentage. I also looked at Celtic who got 3 points in total so guess was a win and a draw for them in the Group, hence extra point on top of the 2 points already received qualified.

Hope I'm wrong,as much harder for Dundalk to get the required points to b seeded next year should they qualify as Champions.

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Had a look at that wiki link and it states:

Bonus points for entering the Europa League group stage are not additional to win/draw points; they provide a minimum points allowance for participating clubs, whereas bonus points for entering the Champions League group stage (and those for qualifying to the knockout stage) are additional to win/draw points

Yeah, ger121 is spot on. The 2 points for the EL are only a minimum (unlike the CL). Great spot

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Originally Posted by ger121

We may as well enjoy this year in Europe. With UEFA expected to announce changes to CL format tomorrow, come 2018/19, it will be a whole lot harder to even get to this stage where you had Dundalk knocking on the door of the Groups.

Lot of outlets saying Top 4 Teams from the Top 4 Leagues will qualify automatically for CL Group Stages. That leaves 16 places for Teams from the other 48/49 Leagues to battle for. I'd also expect the Champions Path to be scrapped to make it easier for Teams from France, Portugal etc.. to qualify.

UEFA will sugarcoat the pill to make it less bitter to swallow by increasing prize money for qualifying rounds and what option to do Teams have anyway, for many it is their biggest source of revenue. I hope they change the name of the Champions League, as it's future format never mind it's current incarnation is a mockery to Champions around Europe.

It seems the needs of the few outweigh the needs of the many!

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Unfortunately money talks. German and Spanish clubs have been pushing for this since the increase in money across the water. The top 4 leagues will have 16 automatic entrants, up from 11.

UEFA were suggesting that they had a 40 team format for FIFA to consider using in World Cups. Possibly UEFA should use that 40 team format for both the Champions League and Europa League.