Darron Gibson

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Originally Posted by tommy_c12000

Totally agree. Ferguson clearly rates him. Expect him to get a longer run out on saturday (probably a start) at home against Blackburn. It's the last game before the Carling Cup final so Ferguson will be keen to give him as much game time as possible before the 1st March

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Imo Saturday was an good indicator of how Ferguson rates Gibson's progress to date.
Essentially, he is a "second string" player, so will feature in "lesser" games and/or when MU have a lot of injuries in midfield.
However, he is not (yet) rated good enough by Ferguson to get in the 18-man squad for crucial games, such as the EPL or CL.
Which is no disgrace at all for one so young and inexperienced, but there must still be a question mark as to whether/when he can make the step up to making Fergie's matchday 18 for big games, as e.g. Evans, O'Shea and Brown have done, never mind whether he will become a regular starter in such games.

P.S. Saturday vs B'burn was not the last game before the CC Final; there's the small matter of the San Siro to come first...;) And Ferguson would never risk fielding less than his best XI for an EPL game (at least before the title is secured), solely in order to give someone like Gibson "game time" for so relatively unimportant a game such as the CC Final.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

P.S. Saturday vs B'burn was not the last game before the CC Final; there's the small matter of the San Siro to come first...;) And Ferguson would never risk fielding less than his best XI for an EPL game (at least before the title is secured), solely in order to give someone like Gibson "game time" for so relatively unimportant a game such as the CC Final.

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Actually, he used do that all the time when the team was so dominant that it didn't matter. Quinten Fortune and Luke Chadwick aren't exactly names to scare the average full back these days, but they got plenty of runs in league games in their time.

Of course, things are more competitive there now.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Imo Saturday was an good indicator of how Ferguson rates Gibson's progress to date.
Essentially, he is a "second string" player, so will feature in "lesser" games and/or when MU have a lot of injuries in midfield.
However, he is not (yet) rated good enough by Ferguson to get in the 18-man squad for crucial games, such as the EPL or CL.
Which is no disgrace at all for one so young and inexperienced, but there must still be a question mark as to whether/when he can make the step up to making Fergie's matchday 18 for big games, as e.g. Evans, O'Shea and Brown have done, never mind whether he will become a regular starter in such games.

P.S. Saturday vs B'burn was not the last game before the CC Final; there's the small matter of the San Siro to come first...;) And Ferguson would never risk fielding less than his best XI for an EPL game (at least before the title is secured), solely in order to give someone like Gibson "game time" for so relatively unimportant a game such as the CC Final.

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Oh come on, Fergie started Carrick & Scholes, Fletcher was on the bench, that's not a reflection on Gibson's progress this season.

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Originally Posted by Qwerty

Oh come on, Fergie started Carrick & Scholes, Fletcher was on the bench, that's not a reflection on Gibson's progress this season.

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I suspect you are being deceived as to his "progress" by developments in English football over the last 10 years.

Nowadays, the "big" games (EPL and CL) are so important and therefore so pressurised that they have become all-consuming, to the detriment of the "lesser" games (FA and Carling Cups, internationals, even).

Further, teams are allowed to introduce 3 subs from seven on the bench. Therefore, the likes of MU now operate a two tier squad system, whereby the top 18 or 20 players are utilised for the big games, with the players for the lesser games being drawn from the next tier of (10 or 12) players.

Gibson is clearly within that second tier.

Whereas in previous times, the top players generally played (when fit) in all of the first team games, regardless of what competition. Indeed, the Rules which require teams always to field their strongest possible XI were enforced (whereas now they are ignored)

One of the consequences of this former situation was that Reserve football was much more significant (and competitive) than it is today. For with a matchday squad of say 13 players, with only one sub allowed, if anyone not in the First XI didn't play for the Reserves, he wouldn't get any match practice at all from one week to the next. Whereas now, fringe first team players get sufficient run-outs from the subs bench or in lesser games, that the Reserves at big clubs are now used as a "development" team for promising young teenagers etc.

Therefore, had Gibson been playing 10 or 15 years ago, he would have been firmly identified as a MU Reserve, or he would have moved permanently to a second string club (Wolves?) in order to get games.

Which is no shame for one so young, but we should not view him as being of MU "first team standard", merely because he gets the odd run out in the Carling Cup etc.

P.S. By way of comparison, I'd say Jonny Evans is of MU first team standard, since Fergie trusts him for the big games when necessary, even over seasoned players like O'Shea and Brown. Indeed, were Ferdinand and Vidic not truly exceptional (World Class?), he'd be making 40 starts a season for MU (imo). As it is, he'd be a regular starter in just about every other EPL club bar a couple.

Manchester United have 3 out and out central defenders at this moment in time: Ferdinand, Vidic and Evans. Wes Brown can play there but is out of the picture this season

Central midfield is a tad more competitive: Scholes, Carrick, Anderson, Hargreaves (injured I know), Fletcher and Gibson all vying for two slots if Fergie goes 4-4-2. Giggs can slot in there no bother as well if required. I'm sure if Man Utd had 5 international class central defenders then Evans would also be in the same boat as Gibson i.e biding his time waiting for his opportunity to shine. It's too early to tell if Gibson can make the grade at Manchester United but I wouldn't right him off just yet.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I suspect you are being deceived as to his "progress" by developments in English football over the last 10 years.

Nowadays, the "big" games (EPL and CL) are so important and therefore so pressurised that they have become all-consuming, to the detriment of the "lesser" games (FA and Carling Cups, internationals, even).

Further, teams are allowed to introduce 3 subs from seven on the bench. Therefore, the likes of MU now operate a two tier squad system, whereby the top 18 or 20 players are utilised for the big games, with the players for the lesser games being drawn from the next tier of (10 or 12) players.

Gibson is clearly within that second tier.

Whereas in previous times, the top players generally played (when fit) in all of the first team games, regardless of what competition. Indeed, the Rules which require teams always to field their strongest possible XI were enforced (whereas now they are ignored)

One of the consequences of this former situation was that Reserve football was much more significant (and competitive) than it is today. For with a matchday squad of say 13 players, with only one sub allowed, if anyone not in the First XI didn't play for the Reserves, he wouldn't get any match practice at all from one week to the next. Whereas now, fringe first team players get sufficient run-outs from the subs bench or in lesser games, that the Reserves at big clubs are now used as a "development" team for promising young teenagers etc.

Therefore, had Gibson been playing 10 or 15 years ago, he would have been firmly identified as a MU Reserve, or he would have moved permanently to a second string club (Wolves?) in order to get games.

Which is no shame for one so young, but we should not view him as being of MU "first team standard", merely because he gets the odd run out in the Carling Cup etc.

P.S. By way of comparison, I'd say Jonny Evans is of MU first team standard, since Fergie trusts him for the big games when necessary, even over seasoned players like O'Shea and Brown. Indeed, were Ferdinand and Vidic not truly exceptional (World Class?), he'd be making 40 starts a season for MU (imo). As it is, he'd be a regular starter in just about every other EPL club bar a couple.

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Why do people even entertain this orange tinted, Northern Ireland, biased, drivel? A man who claims that Gibson wouldn't get into a team ahead of the likes of Sammy the Kilngon is at best partial and at worst slightly demented.

Everything he says about Gibson is tainted with the taste of sour grapes. If Gibson was in the NI squad EG would be claiming he was the next Roy Keane and we all know he would be starting regularly whatever EG likes to believe (Johnny Evans was getting his game for NI before he even broke into the United squad).

P.S. Who cares about Johnny Evans? He's not a ROI international. If you want to overhype him to ridiculous levels go to ourweecountry.com and find some similarly deluded minds to discuss him with. What I will ask is do you know what the Jimmy Murphy Award is? Look it up I think you'll find Gibson won it ahead of Evans a couple of years ago.

P.P.S. You don't seem to be so smug lately it must be because NI are back down where they belong in the FIFA rankings as I correctly stated they'd be this time last year. Actually sorry that's not true they've still a few places to fall before they've found their level.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Why do people even entertain this orange tinted, Northern Ireland, biased, drivel? A man who claims that Gibson wouldn't get into a team ahead of the likes of Sammy the Kilngon is at best impartial and at worst slightly demented.

Everything he says about Gibson is tainted with the taste of sour grapes. If Gibson was in the NI squad EG would be claiming he was the next Roy Keane and we all know he would be starting regularly whatever EG likes to believe (Johnny Evans was getting his game for NI before he even broke into the United squad).

P.S. Who cares about Johnny Evans? He's not a ROI international. If you want to overhype him to ridiculous levels go to ourweecountry.com and find some similarly deluded minds to discuss him with. What I will ask is do you know what the Jimmy Murphy Award is? Look it up I think you'll find Gibson won it ahead of Evans a couple of years ago.

P.P.S. You don't seem to be so smug lately it must be because NI are back down where they belong in the FIFA rankings as I correctly stated they'd be this time last year. Actually sorry that's not true they've still a few places to fall before they've found their level.

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You got it in one!

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Manchester United have 3 out and out central defenders at this moment in time: Ferdinand, Vidic and Evans. Wes Brown can play there but is out of the picture this season

Central midfield is a tad more competitive: Scholes, Carrick, Anderson, Hargreaves (injured I know), Fletcher and Gibson all vying for two slots if Fergie goes 4-4-2. Giggs can slot in there no bother as well if required. I'm sure if Man Utd had 5 international class central defenders then Evans would also be in the same boat as Gibson i.e biding his time waiting for his opportunity to shine. It's too early to tell if Gibson can make the grade at Manchester United but I wouldn't right him off just yet.

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Central midfield is hardly more competitive at OT than centre back (imo), since each has five genuine contenders (i.e. internationals) for two slots:
CM - Scholes, Carrick, Anderson, Hargreaves and Fletcher
CB - Vidic, Ferdinand, Evans, O'Shea and Brown. (Plus Gary Neville can slot in there, if required, just like Giggs in CM)

Imo, had Hargreaves and Carrick not suffered so many injuries this season, Gibson wouldn't have got even so many games in CM as he has.

As for CB, we can be sure that Fergie is happy with his choice of two from five by the sale of Gerard Pique to Barcelona for £3m(?), as against his refusal to sell Evans to Sunderland for £8m.
Pique was frustrated by his position in the pecking order at OT, yet afaik he has since proven good enough to get a regular place in the Barca XI, and was called up to the Spanish squad for their game against England a couple of weeks back.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

As for CB, we can be sure that Fergie is happy with his choice of two from five by the sale of Gerard Pique to Barcelona for £3m(?), as against his refusal to sell Evans to Sunderland for £8m.
Pique was frustrated by his position in the pecking order at OT, yet afaik he has since proven good enough to get a regular place in the Barca XI, and was called up to the Spanish squad for their game against England a couple of weeks back.

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It's hardly that clear cut, now is it?

Regardless it's a fruitless exercise comparing the potential of 2 players that don't play in the same position.

I'm sure Gibson and the rest of this forum are well aware that he has plenty of work to do before he becomes a regular for ManU and Ireland.

Who really cares? I'm just glad he turned his back on the North in order to play for us. In fact, I must say I'm delighted every time another young lad does it as it adds to our pool of available players.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Why do people even entertain this orange tinted, Northern Ireland, biased, drivel?

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An innate sense of toleration which you lack, perhaps? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by youngirish

A man who claims that Gibson wouldn't get into a team ahead of the likes of Sammy the Kilngon is at best impartial and at worst slightly demented.

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You're dismissing a seasoned Championship player in favour of someone who has made either one or no starts in the EPL.
Indeed, Gibson's CV to date shows a handful of games in the minor cups or "dead" CL games for MU, 21 games in English Championship football and 33 games in the Belgian 2nd Division (equivalent to English League Two?)
You might prefer to pick him for international duty ahead of Johnson, Davis and Clingan, who between them have literally hundreds of appearances in the EPL, SPL or English Championship (as well as 100 international caps), but I wouldn't.
More to the point, Trapattoni preferred Andrews and Whelan, neither of whom has a superior pedigree to the NI three, over Gibson for ROI's most recent "must win" game at home to Georgia.
P.S. I think you mean "partial"...

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Everything he says about Gibson is tainted with the taste of sour grapes. If Gibson was in the NI squad EG would be claiming he was the next Roy Keane and we all know he would be starting regularly whatever EG likes to believe

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Really? Here is what I think. Gibson should certainly be good enough to get in the NI squad, but due to his youth and lack of experience, it would take injury to two of Davis, Clingan and Johnson before he would be considered, and then he would be competing for a place against McCann, O'Connor and Baird (a CB who has been picked in the holding midfield position by both Fulham and NI this season).

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Originally Posted by youngirish

(Johnny Evans was getting his game for NI before he even broke into the United squad).

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Evans was first picked by NI at LB in an emergency against Spain (Sanchez had fallen out with McCartney and Capaldi was injured). This was the Spanish team which went on to become European Champions and World No.1 in the rankings, including Torres, Villa and Gonzales up front.
Meanwhile, as well as Evans, NI picked a Central Midfield of Clingan and Davis, with Baird guarding the back four, up against (ahem) Alonso, Albelda, Hernandez and Fabregas.
Since that victory, Evans has never looked back, for club or country.
http://en.euro2008.uefa.com/tourname...713/index.html

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Originally Posted by youngirish

P.S. Who cares about Johnny Evans? He's not a ROI international. If you want to overhype him to ridiculous levels go to ourweecountry.com and find some similarly deluded minds to discuss him with. What I will ask is do you know what the Jimmy Murphy Award is? Look it up I think you'll find Gibson won it ahead of Evans a couple of years ago.

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Being of similar age and background (as well as good friends), Evans offers a very good comparison to Gibson. Both had similarly promising beginnings at OT. Evans is slightly younger. Yet whilst Evans is now a fixture in the first choice 18 on matchdays, including regular starts, Gibson only features in lesser games (and then usually only following injuries).
And yes, I do know what the Jimmy Murphy Award is. In terms of youth football, it's quite an accolade, but in terms of adult football, it means very little, since youthful potential often doesn't translate into adult achievement.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

P.P.S. You don't seem to be so smug lately it must be because NI are back down where they belong in the FIFA rankings as I correctly stated they'd be this time last year. Actually sorry that's not true they've still a few places to fall before they've found their level.

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That's as may be, but it has no relevance to the merits or otherwise of Darron Gibson as a player, which for all his future potential, is still imo essentially that of a MU Reserve*

* - In the traditional sense of the term

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Originally Posted by ifk101

it's a fruitless exercise comparing the potential of 2 players that don't play in the same position.

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Except I wasn't just basing my assessment of Gibson on a comparison of him and Evans. I have also compared his record with that of the midfield of a similar ranking international team (NI), plus that of the two players who most recently kept him out of the ROI team, Whelan and Andrews, none of whom is exactly a world beater.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

I'm sure Gibson and the rest of this forum are well aware that he has plenty of work to do before he becomes a regular for ManU and Ireland.

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Try telling that to Kingdom Kerry and Young Irish, then

ZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

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Originally Posted by livehead1

Who really cares? I'm just glad he turned his back on the North in order to play for us. In fact, I must say I'm delighted every time another young lad does it as it adds to our pool of available players.

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Regardless of whether I think he should be entitled to play for ROI or not, I actually tend to agree with you, since I don't want players in the NI team whose hearts aren't in it, any more than you do such players in the ROI team (Stephen Ireland?).

In fact, even should Gibson go on to achieve genuinely top class status, I'll still take more pride in the performances of "average" performers, so long as they put in 100% in an NI shirt.

On which point, whether Superstar or Journeyman, you're welcome to Gibson.

here is a typical discussion between Ealing Green and the rest of Foot.ie

Foot.ie Poster 1: fckin hell that Paddy might be a decent player in a few years

Ealing Green: no good, wouldnt make the NI team, snipe snipe snipe

Foot.ie Poster 2: ah now, come on lad, in fairness, all i said was

Ealing Green: snipe snipe snipe

Foot.ie Poster 3: ah come on now, seriously

Ealing Green: snipe snipe snipe

Foot.ie Poster 4: are you seriously saying Billy's better than Paddy?

Ealing Green: snipe-ity, snipe snipe, snippy snipe

Foot.ie Poster 5: FCK YOU, YOU ORANGE TINTED SO AND SO!

Ealing Green: BINGO!!!!! [quote], snipe, [quote], snipe, [quote], snipe, [quote], snipe

Mod: Keep it on topic lads. FP#5, one week suspension...

Ealing Green: Where to next?....

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Originally Posted by SkStu

here is a typical discussion between Ealing Green and the rest of Foot.ie

Foot.ie Poster 1: fckin hell that Paddy might be a decent player in a few years

Ealing Green: no good, wouldnt make the NI team, snipe snipe snipe

Foot.ie Poster 2: ah now, come on lad, in fairness, all i said was

Ealing Green: snipe snipe snipe

Foot.ie Poster 3: ah come on now, seriously

Ealing Green: snipe snipe snipe

Foot.ie Poster 4: are you seriously saying Billy's better than Paddy?

Ealing Green: snipe-ity, snipe snipe, snippy snipe

Foot.ie Poster 5: FCK YOU, YOU ORANGE TINTED SO AND SO!

Ealing Green: BINGO!!!!! snipe, snipe, snipe, snipe

Mod: Keep it on topic lads. FP#5, one week suspension...

Ealing Green: Where to next?....

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Very good.

Now any thoughts on Gibson?

No?

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

P.S. I think you mean "partial"...

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Thank you for noticing that little snippet. Now amended.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Very good.

Now any thoughts on Gibson?

No?

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i am of the same opinion as Foot.ie Poster 1.

From what ive have seen/read/heard he will be a very good player in a few years but not ready for international football yet.

I don't think he was actually asking you a question SkStu, more of a grumpy snipe.

It's hard to keep a straight face when a supporter of a team preparing for the unavoidable steep descent to their destined 5th place in their group (despite the herculean efforts from an over performing NI team), would be extolling the merits of the selection of say Grunt McCann over the equisite Darron Gibson as he polishes his boots in preparation for a Wembley Cup Final.

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Central midfield is hardly more competitive at OT than centre back (imo), since each has five genuine contenders (i.e. internationals) for two slots:
CM - Scholes, Carrick, Anderson, Hargreaves and Fletcher
CB - Vidic, Ferdinand, Evans, O'Shea and Brown. (Plus Gary Neville can slot in there, if required, just like Giggs in CM)

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Good point. Lots of other good points in fairness. It's obvious that you have a huge bias toward the North but I still couldn't disagree with most of what u said. I would be of the opinion that the Republic have much more quality in general than the North at present but couldn't argue that when it comes to centre mid there's feck all in it....well with the players that Trapp has is using anyway.

I don't agree with Ealing on everything, but it's hard to disagree with his assertion that Evans is in that elite first team group, and Gibson is very much on the fringes, more in a reserve/second team role.

And I'd also say that based on performances, Ferguson is bang on with his pecking order the way it is.

If somebody offered me one of Evans and Gibson, I'd probably go for Evans (at this stage).

Now that said, I'm happy we've got Gibson and I feel he's got the potential to become a good player for us, but sadly for him I think he'll have to move clubs if he's going to establish himself as a Premiership/European player.

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Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

Good point. Lots of other good points in fairness.

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Thank you.

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Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

It's obvious that you have a huge bias toward the North

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No doubt. (In my experience, all fans are partial towards their own team to a certain extent)

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Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

I would be of the opinion that the Republic have much more quality in general than the North at present

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Agree.

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Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

but couldn't argue that when it comes to centre mid there's feck all in it

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Indeed.

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Originally Posted by BarelyLegal

....well with the players that Trapp has is using anyway.

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Exactly.
For if S.Reid wasn't permanently injured, Carsley wasn't 30-something, A.Reid wasn't in Trap's bad books and S.Ireland, well, away with the fairies half the time, then Gibson wouldn't be within an Ass's Roar of getting into the ROI's senior team at present.

Ealing Geen

Most of us are well aware that Evans is a more established player at UTD than Gibson for now anyway. The best of luck to the Lad and Gibson as well. Its no mean achievment to be anywhere near the first team panel at UTD.
Hopefully Gibson will make the grade as well and from an International point of view have the honour and glory of displaying his footballing skills at that wonderful new stadium at Landsdowne RD.
I would encourage all players from wherever they are on the island of Ireland to take the opportunity to regularly display their skills at our fantastic new stadium.
It begs one to wonder do players like Jonny Evans regret his choice when he has to turn out at that shabby excuse for a stadium that is Wobbly Windsor Park

[quote=SkStu;1111894]here is a typical discussion between Ealing Green and the rest of Foot.ie

Foot.ie Poster 1: fckin hell that Paddy might be a decent player in a few years

Ealing Green: no good, wouldnt make the NI team, snipe snipe snipe

Foot.ie Poster 2: ah now, come on lad, in fairness, all i said was

Ealing Green: snipe snipe snipe

Foot.ie Poster 3: ah come on now, seriously

Ealing Green: snipe snipe snipe

Foot.ie Poster 4: are you seriously saying Billy's better than Paddy?

Ealing Green: snipe-ity, snipe snipe, snippy snipe

Foot.ie Poster 5: FCK YOU, YOU ORANGE TINTED SO AND SO!

Ealing Green: BINGO!!!!! [quote], snipe, [quote], snipe, [quote], snipe,

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, snipe

Mod: Keep it on topic lads. FP#5, one week suspension...

Ealing Green: Where to next?....

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Have to say that made me laugh out loud, very very funny mate

Hes just upset that the north are now a feeder club to the international team! :D

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Being of similar age and background (as well as good friends), Evans offers a very good comparison to Gibson.

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Evans, Gibson and Marc Wilson were all at the Man United youth academy in 2004, as well as Man U training camps prior to this, so all three know each other quite well.

Two out of three ain’t bad :)

Gibson on the bench for the CL game today.

I'm surprised nobody picked up on this extract from the Mail article I posted previously (which in fairness was streets ahead of Irish papers & some posters here when it comes to capitalising north and south in the Irish context).

"When I got my chance with my country, I got it with my club."

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Central midfield is hardly more competitive at OT than centre back (imo), since each has five genuine contenders (i.e. internationals) for two slots:
CM - Scholes, Carrick, Anderson, Hargreaves and Fletcher
CB - Vidic, Ferdinand, Evans, O'Shea and Brown. (Plus Gary Neville can slot in there, if required, just like Giggs in CM)

Imo, had Hargreaves and Carrick not suffered so many injuries this season, Gibson wouldn't have got even so many games in CM as he has.

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O'Shea is a full back by trade and only plays centre back for us because we are so bare in that department. Wes Brown also had his best season at Man Utd when playing right back and I'm sure if he stayed fit this season then he'd be first choice right back. Evans is thus already third choice before the season had even started! One injury to Vidic/Ferdinand and he's straight in. Gibson on the other hand has a much tougher job on his hands (imo) to get that breakthrough. Obviously if he's good enough he'll make the grade but Fergie will test the waters (CL rubber games and Cup games) and once Scholes and Giggs start to fade away (from next season and beyond) hopefully Gibson chance will come and he can grab it with both hands.

I rate Evans and think he'll develop into a top player for club and country and hope Gibson does the same.

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

O'Shea is a full back by trade

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centre back is his preferred position...

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

Ealing Geen

Most of us are well aware that Evans is a more established player at UTD than Gibson for now anyway. The best of luck to the Lad and Gibson as well. Its no mean achievment to be anywhere near the first team panel at UTD.
Hopefully Gibson will make the grade as well and from an International point of view have the honour and glory of displaying his footballing skills at that wonderful new stadium at Landsdowne RD.
I would encourage all players from wherever they are on the island of Ireland to take the opportunity to regularly display their skills at our fantastic new stadium.
It begs one to wonder do players like Jonny Evans regret his choice when he has to turn out at that shabby excuse for a stadium that is Wobbly Windsor Park

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Unless they're barking mad*, I somehow doubt that prospective international footballers will seek career advice from someone who imagines the state of the stadium is the key criterion in deciding which international football team to opt for... :eek:

* - Or possibly Stephen Ireland ;)

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

* - Or possibly Stephen Ireland ;)

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:confused:

Why the constant Stephen Ireland digs?

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

O'Shea is a full back by trade and only plays centre back for us because we are so bare in that department. Wes Brown also had his best season at Man Utd when playing right back and I'm sure if he stayed fit this season then he'd be first choice right back. Evans is thus already third choice before the season had even started! One injury to Vidic/Ferdinand and he's straight in.

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That's not the point. O'Shea, Brown and Neville are still big options for centre back in a crisis and Evans has jumped above them in the pecking order for that position.

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

O'Shea is a full back by trade and only plays centre back for us because we are so bare in that department. Wes Brown also had his best season at Man Utd when playing right back and I'm sure if he stayed fit this season then he'd be first choice right back. Evans is thus already third choice before the season had even started! One injury to Vidic/Ferdinand and he's straight in. .

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As Roger M has pointed out, O'Shea has always seen himself as a CB, as has Brown. The fact that they are versatile enough to play Full Back is one of the reasons they're valued by Ferguson (I imagine) and have got regular games.

Anyhow, the key to Evans' place in the pecking order at OT is actually to be found in the decision of Gerard Pique to leave MU. For it is quite clear that he saw himself as (at best) 4th choice CB at OT i.e. behind Evans.

For not only did Ferguson turn down a higher fee for Evans than that which he accepted for Pique, but he must also have persuaded Evans that he will get his chance soon enough at OT (Otherwise Evans would not have turned down a permanent move to Sunderland, on a hugely increased salary and with a guaranteed start in the team).

And if you want to know how good Pique is, consider this:
1. He's 6'4" and a year older than Evans;
2. He had already played a decent number of games for MU before leaving (more than Gibson?);
3. He has already broken into the Barca team this season - the best team in Spain;
4. Earlier this month he made his full debut for Spain - rated the best international team in the world at present.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gerard_Piqu%C3%A9

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Originally Posted by shakermaker1982

Gibson on the other hand has a much tougher job on his hands (imo) to get that breakthrough. Obviously if he's good enough he'll make the grade but Fergie will test the waters (CL rubber games and Cup games) and once Scholes and Giggs start to fade away (from next season and beyond) hopefully Gibson chance will come and he can grab it with both hands.

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As for Gibson, I agree that following his recent progress, he must have a reasonable chance of making it at OT. However, the definition of "making it" must include playing a bit part, like e.g. Brown or O'Shea (imo). For if/when Giggs and Scholes etc fade, it is just as likely that Ferguson will replace them by splashing out £10m or £20m on another Michael Carrick or Owen Hargreaves etc, as promote Gibson (imo).

Interesting to observe, mind, and quite something that a little place like NI can produce two prospects who can compete at a club which has the pick of the best young players from all around the world.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Unless they're barking mad*, I somehow doubt that prospective international footballers will seek career advice from someone who imagines the state of the stadium is the key criterion in deciding which international football team to opt for... :eek:

* - Or possibly Stephen Ireland ;)

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We will give you Stephen Ireland for Jonny Evans

Its a good deal honest :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ifk101

:confused:

Why the constant Stephen Ireland digs?

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Cos it's easy? ;)

http://www.here.org.uk/2009/02/for-t...int-again.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

We will give you Stephen Ireland for Jonny Evans

Its a good deal honest :D

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I don't think Stephen Ireland qualifies for OWC, unless it's by the Granny Rule? ;)

Mind you, if he changed his first name to "Norman", he'd at least sound as if he qualifies...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Cos it's easy? ;)

http://www.here.org.uk/2009/02/for-t...int-again.html

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Aye and there is a Stephen Ireland dedicated thread. Discussed before so move on EG. Anyways it's a bit unhealthy for an old man like you to be taking such an active interest in a young lad, no?

Topic of discussion is Gibson.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Anyways it's a bit unhealthy for an old man like you to be taking such an active interest in a young lad, no?

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And you accuse me of taking this thread off topic? Jeez, the implication of that comment is bizarre, if not downright creepy. :eek:
Have you got bored with all those Swedish babes the country produces?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by co. down green

Evans, Gibson and Marc Wilson were all at the Man United youth academy in 2004, as well as Man U training camps prior to this, so all three know each other quite well.

Two out of three ain’t bad :)

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On the basis that Quality trumps Quantity, you can have Gibson and Wilson, as "surplus to requirements" ;)