The Kevin Nolan saga

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Could the two of you be so kind as to post a link to the post where I said 'blah blah blah'...

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In CTP's case I inserted it - it was because he'd quoted your entire post before responding and I was following the "don't quote an entire tome when replying to it" rule. Quote changed. Please accept my apologies. :o

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

What exactly are you trying to say? Accept 2nd prize? Would that be failure to even qualify, because we've won that prize a lot in recent years. Nolan could help us qualify for Euro 2008 - how is that accepting 2nd prize? Long-term the Technical Development Plan will hopefully ensure we don't have to accept the likes of Nolan in say 10 - 15 yrs time. Get it?

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What a shame someone didn't have the foresight to put such a plan in place after Italia 1990. If they did we'd be where you advocate us for 2020 right now and able to tell mercenaries like Van Nolan to do one.

:ball: PP

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Could the two of you be so kind as to post a link to the post where I said 'blah blah blah'.....


What exactly are you trying to say? Accept 2nd prize? Would that be failure to even qualify, because we've won that prize a lot in recent years. Nolan could help us qualify for Euro 2008 - how is that accepting 2nd prize? Long-term the Technical Development Plan will hopefully ensure we don't have to accept the likes of Nolan in say 10 - 15 yrs time. Get it? :rolleyes:

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it was Plastic Paddys editing which attributed that to me,i had quoted your entire post, im sure he will hold his hands up.

as for the rest of it, is this all you can come back at me with?:p

and even in this weak and, small in content, reply you yourself accept it will be nice when we dont have the likes of Nolan on-board. so i rest my case.:D

He is considering playing for Holland now. His great-grandfather was Dutch. Assuem that the intent is a joke.

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

it was Plastic Paddys editing which attributed that to me,i had quoted your entire post, im sure he will hold his hands up.

as for the rest of it, is this all you can come back at me with?

and even in this weak and, small in content, reply you yourself accept it will be nice when we dont have the likes of Nolan on-board. so i rest my case.

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What do you mean by 'come back at me with'? What are you, 12?! :rolleyes:
If you read all my posts on this matter, my reply to you is merely repeating to you what my point has been all along. Get Nolan in, fcuk the begrudgers (like you), let him help us qualify for 2008. In 10-15 yrs time the TDP should see us begin to produce our own stars. That's basically been my point all along. His notions of England don't bother me at all. I suppose it's in me cos I can't stand Celtic, the Wolfe Tones, republicanism, the fields of Athenry or any of that diddley-di bullsh!t that idiots think is Irishness. I'm not one of those, thank god. Reading back on this thread and the previous one which was merged, you've lambasted anyone who is pro-Nolan. You obviously have issues, just because someone doesn't agree with your, IMO, Black and White views on the matter, you feel the need to bark your simplistic musings at them :p Go back and read my posts and you'll find that you don't need to rest your case......

The likes of you and the other begrudgers have issues about his Irishness or lack of, his links to us and his devaluing of the Irish shirt should he eventually declare. I was just pointing out other countries have these players too (and we'd possibly have more if we had a decent league where players could earn citizenship.) Will you stop going to Lansdowne if Nolan dons the green?

For the record I have stopped going to Lansdowne because of this ****. In now way could I be described as a republican either.

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Will you stop going to Lansdowne if Nolan dons the green?

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i actually believe in each case such as Nolans being judged on its individual merits, and happen to think in his particular case, he is one we should pass on. not a black and white view at all IMO. and certainly not a view which lends itself to the 'republican' angle which you have now put forward. i think levelling that at me, albeit indirectly, is a cheap shot. (and a load of ******** too) i dont have a political angle here, i dont care that he is English, all that concerns me is that he is not, and does not see himself as, Irish. i feel in this day and age anyone should be free to express such a view without being tarred with that brush, and in your doing so, i have lost any remaining respect for your views.

i have lambasted peoples views on this because it is meant to be an International Honour to represent a country. if we lose that then something very special is lost, and for what? your short term gain view? no thanks.

i wouldnt stop going to landsdowne, no. but neither would i view him in the same way as the other players.not deliberately though, i just dont see how one could.

you have yet to answer my earlier question, would you feel equally represented, as an irishman, by Kevin Nolan, as you do by Kavanagh or Kilbane? simple yes or no.

I'd prefer not to have this bloke near the squad. Nationality is a tricky thing and the likes of Houghton, Aldridge, Morrison and Townsend would all have played for England (or Scotland in Houghton's case) if they'd come looking first. But once they were asked, they played.

Kevin Nolan has presumably been asked. Now is the time to say yes or no. Instead, he's keeping his options open. I find this debases the honour of playing for your country so much that I think I'd find it too hard to take seeing him line up before a game, knowing that he'd prefer to be playing for England. With the above players, I'm sure they don't regret a thing.

Like another poster pointed out, if he's only doing this to put pressure on McClaren, then this squalid issue should be brought to an end. It's not as if it's an Irish player declaring for someone else - refusing to pick Kevin Nolan won't be a loss.

If he was today's Ray Houghton, who presumably never thought of playing for Ireland before being asked but joined up immediately and gave everything to it, I wouldn't care. Irish nationality is a funny brew.

On a separate point, RoverstilIdie, why do you insist on making your points personal? Just debate the issue like most of us instead of slagging people off with choice phrases like ole ole mugs and barstoolers, etc, etc. It gets repetitive and I thought an excellent post by Stuttgart a while ago put all this rubbish to an end.

Great post Donal esp the last bit in my view I would find it very uneasy to have Nolan playing for us the same way I was with Matt Holland. However maybe I lack principle cause this uneasy feeling seems to go as the player gets embedded into the set-up. Just been honest here I know there are flaws in my argument but that is how I find myself on these issues. Breen Kilbane are not an issue but when Morrisson and Holland declared for us I was certainly uneasy about it. However as someone pointed out before I certainly did not have this uneasy feeling when Holland scored against Cameroon or Morrisson did against Switzerland.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Great post Donal esp the last bit in my view I would find it very uneasy to have Nolan playing for us the same way I was with Matt Holland. However maybe I lack principle cause this uneasy feeling seems to go as the player gets embedded into the set-up. Just been honest here I know there are flaws in my argument but that is how I find myself on these issues. Breen Kilbane are not an issue but when Morrisson and Holland declared for us I was certainly uneasy about it. However as someone pointed out before I certainly did not have this uneasy feeling when Holland scored against Cameroon or Morrisson did against Switzerland.

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Too right Neil. I felt the same about Carsley but would have cheered him if he ever did anything decent.;) In his excellent book, Cascarino makes a reference to watching the England team as a youngster and wanting to play for them. Why not, he almost asks the reader, England was my country and I was English. It's an obvious reference to what comes later in the book. But when he joined, he became a part of the squad. For all his shortcomings as a player, he gave his all and will be synonymous with that wonderful era for Irish football.

He didn't know that he wasn't Irish by blood when he declared (if you believe his side of it) but that's almost irrelevant here. He had no interest in playing for Ireland until he was asked.

Nolan is doing this differently and it's despicable.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

Great post Donal esp the last bit in my view I would find it very uneasy to have Nolan playing for us the same way I was with Matt Holland. However maybe I lack principle cause this uneasy feeling seems to go as the player gets embedded into the set-up. Just been honest here I know there are flaws in my argument but that is how I find myself on these issues. Breen Kilbane are not an issue but when Morrisson and Holland declared for us I was certainly uneasy about it. However as someone pointed out before I certainly did not have this uneasy feeling when Holland scored against Cameroon or Morrisson did against Switzerland.

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Have been trying to stay away from this thread but have been eventually lured in! :confused:

Interesting comparison with Morrisson, I remember around the time that he declared for us there was a quote (probably from his agent) along the lines of "Clinton has been feeling very Irish is these past few weeks" and I found that really epitomised the attitude of some of these guys that declared for us....Its pretty offensive to our nationality and I think this would be the same with Nolan...He declares and suddenly he announces he's "feeling very Irish"...well thanks for that!

Having said that, Clinton's attitude has been exemplory since declaring for us and its pretty obvious he plays his heart out each time he pulls on the green jersey which is really all you can ask of these guys.

On the other hand, if Nolan is treating this as some kind of club transfer where he announces that he's contemplating playing for us only to get McClaren to cap him well then he can f*ck right off. :eek:

If Nolan declares for us and Staunton picks him, my support of the Irish team will not be diluted one bit. Nolan, in terms of his abilities and his leadership, would be an excellent player to have in the side. I think 4tothefloor's point about getting the best players available out representing Ireland is the most important thing, until such point as the Development Scheme renders us in a position where we will not have to go looking for players born abroad with the alacrity that we do now.

I love the Irish team. The presence of the likes of Houghton, Morrison and McAteer (all of whom behaved remarkably similarly to Nolan, as has been noted) has not diminished that one bit. Nothing would change in that regard should Nolan declare for us. Don't forget - if you think he is 'using' us, how much more are we 'using' him for our ends?

Nolan is good enough to be in our first team, and is one of the top 5 midfielders in the Premiership. If he decides to declare for us, then let's get on with things and get behind him when he steps out in an Irish jersey. If he doesn't, how bad. No skin off our noses.

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Originally Posted by TerryPhelan

I think 4tothefloor's point about getting the best players available out representing Ireland is the most important thing

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Aye, but would he be representing the country.

last post on this subjest. Sick to death of it. I actually hate Kevin Nolan now...

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Originally Posted by TerryPhelan

The presence of the likes of Houghton, Morrison and McAteer (all of whom behaved remarkably similarly to Nolan, as has been noted) has not diminished that one bit.

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Not quite Terry, it has been noted on this thread in a few places that Houghton in an instant took up Charlton's offer to declare.
Don't know about Jason but even Morrison's prevarication was not a patch on Nolans.
I voted no, more for closure, the arguement against any furthur contact with Nolan was too well presented. The thread brought up many interesting points which were well discussed but by now it is just repeating the same old arguements for a third and fourth time. Vote and leave it at that.
I am not at all convinced that Stan is even pursuing Nolan not to mention begging him to declare. I'm pretty sure Nolan isn't losing any sleep over it.
There's a qual. campaign around the corner and Nolan will not be a part of it.

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

and certainly not a view which lends itself to the 'republican' angle which you have now put forward. i think levelling that at me, albeit indirectly, is a cheap shot. (and a load of ******** too) i dont have a political angle here, i dont care that he is English, all that concerns me is that he is not, and does not see himself as, Irish. i feel in this day and age anyone should be free to express such a view without being tarred with that brush, and in your doing so, i have lost any remaining respect for your views.

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Ahh, I was talking about my own reasons for not having a problem with Nolan, reasons you seem incapable of understanding. I wasn't levelling republicanism at you. Maybe you are 12? :D

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Originally Posted by CraftyToePoke

you have yet to answer my earlier question, would you feel equally represented, as an irishman, by Kevin Nolan, as you do by Kavanagh or Kilbane? simple yes or no.

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Yes, as long as he's putting the graft in on the pitch and delivering the goods.

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Originally Posted by NeilMcD

However maybe I lack principle cause this uneasy feeling seems to go as the player gets embedded into the set-up. Just been honest here I know there are flaws in my argument but that is how I find myself on these issues. Breen Kilbane are not an issue but when Morrisson and Holland declared for us I was certainly uneasy about it. However as someone pointed out before I certainly did not have this uneasy feeling when Holland scored against Cameroon or Morrisson did against Switzerland.

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Good point, people get on their high horse about situations like this in the beginning, but once the player is playing for us, scoring goals and delivering performances all goes quiet. And they pick on the next guy........If fans are so put out by the likes of Nolan/Morrison they should do the honourable thing, take a proper stand and stop going to Lansdowne. Put up or shut up if you like.

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Originally Posted by geysir

I am not at all convinced that Stan is even pursuing Nolan not to mention begging him to declare.

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Exactly, he's not begging him. The way some here are talking you'd swear Staunton was ringing Nolan every weekend. Nolan is doing a lot of talking and even he himself isn't sure if Staunton actually still wants him. To quote Nolan from SaucyJack's post "it could be one of those things where I could step into the international scene with Ireland, if Steve Staunton did want me and if I got picked". He also had a go at Didi Hamann recently in the press for opting not to join Bolton. So he's been quite mouthy in the media recently, something I wouldn't pay much attention to.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

I actually hate Kevin Nolan now...

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lol :p

I vote to pass on him. I could live with a player who would rather be playing for England if his name was Steven Gerrard or Joe Cole. Kevin Nolan? Pass.

Regarding Houghton, I remember reading an article in the (London) Times about him in 1993. Evidently he's a fairly devout Catholic which is one of the reasons he declared.

I would have brought him on in the 40th min of the Chile game (or the next friendly).

Then I would have waited 4-5 proper games (competitive matches) and seen what his attitude was like.

If he had a good attitude, trained hard and seemed genuinely proud and interested in playing for us, I would then consider putting him back in proper squads from say summer 07.

If he spat his dummy out through not playing, and became a disruptive influence, I wouldnt have picked him again.

If the former happened we would have a good player, interested in playing for us, who might have had previous comments twisted by the press.

If the latter happened we would have at least ended his international career.

I think with all players like Nolan (where there is doubt over their desire), we should play them for a game to lock them down for us, then drop them for a while and see their attitude and judge if from there.

Any chance we can impose a ban on the mention of Nolan in this forum as we did with Celtic? If he actually plays for Ireland we could agree to lift that ban.

I'm sick of hearing about him. It's the same recycled sh**e over and over again. He only uses the threat of Ireland to try to force his way into the current England manager's plans anyway.

agree

No way should he ever be allowed put on an Irish jersey IMO:mad:
And thankfully 71.43% of people agree with me.

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Originally Posted by youngirish

Any chance we can impose a ban on the mention of Nolan in this forum as we did with Celtic? If he actually plays for Ireland we could agree to lift that ban.

I'm sick of hearing about him. It's the same recycled sh**e over and over again. He only uses the threat of Ireland to try to force his way into the current England manager's plans anyway.

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how about just ignore the thread and you will be fine I am sure.

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Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

I would have brought him on in the 40th min of the Chile game (or the next friendly).

Then I would have waited 4-5 proper games (competitive matches) and seen what his attitude was like.

If he had a good attitude, trained hard and seemed genuinely proud and interested in playing for us, I would then consider putting him back in proper squads from say summer 07.

If he spat his dummy out through not playing, and became a disruptive influence, I wouldnt have picked him again.

If the former happened we would have a good player, interested in playing for us, who might have had previous comments twisted by the press.

If the latter happened we would have at least ended his international career.

I think with all players like Nolan (where there is doubt over their desire), we should play them for a game to lock them down for us, then drop them for a while and see their attitude and judge if from there.

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......and he would be the last player with dual nationality to declare for us if we are seen to treat players with other options with such arrogance. Anyway once they declare, why would there then be a doubt about their desire!

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Originally Posted by vega007

I vote to pass on him. I could live with a player who would rather be playing for England if his name was Steven Gerrard or Joe Cole. Kevin Nolan? Pass.

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Thats even more morally dubious than the man himself!

Quite frankly I think that if you weren't born or raised in Ireland then you shouldn't play for us. That said don't tell Mick McCarthy or John Aldridge they aren't Irish. Kevin Nolan can **** off, I don't want him on our team. If Wayne Rooney hadn't declared for England I would certainly take him though.

That isn't here nor there! :D

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Originally Posted by vega007

Quite frankly I think that if you weren't born or raised in Ireland then you shouldn't play for us. That said don't tell Mick McCarthy or John Aldridge they aren't Irish. Kevin Nolan can **** off, I don't want him on our team. If Wayne Rooney hadn't declared for England I would certainly take him though.

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I hope you have had a few drinks and that you dont really mean what you are saying but that post makes no sense whatsoever , riddled with contradictions!

I’m am a fresh fish here so I feel i am duty bound to post on this thread – rite of passage and all that

Would I take him? Yes in a flash if he’s better than what we got.That doesn’t mean that if he doesn’t try like he should in an international shirt I think he should keep getting the chance.

I didn’t care Houghton was Scottish in ’88 or 94
I didn’t care Aldridge was English the many times he scored
I don’t care Cascarino didn’t even have an irish passport

They all played with heart and passion and that was more than enough for me. if Nolan signs ups and does the same as those aforementioned then who really cares?
I just want Ireland to qualify – preferably somewhere in Europe so I can afford to go.

So he has hummed and hawed(?) in public about playing for Ireland. So what? Every footballer these days lives their life in the press these days and uses it to their advantage if they can. It’s not like the press doesn’t use them. If he is using the irish card as a bargaining chip to get into the England squad then no doubt it will come back to haunt him in some way.

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Originally Posted by kingoffifa

I’m am a fresh fish here so I feel i am duty bound to post on this thread – rite of passage and all that

Would I take him? Yes in a flash if he’s better than what we got.That doesn’t mean that if he doesn’t try like he should in an international shirt I think he should keep getting the chance.

I didn’t care Houghton was Scottish in ’88 or 94
I didn’t care Aldridge was English the many times he scored
I don’t care Cascarino didn’t even have an irish passport

They all played with heart and passion and that was more than enough for me. if Nolan signs ups and does the same as those aforementioned then who really cares?
I just want Ireland to qualify – preferably somewhere in Europe so I can afford to go.

So he has hummed and hawed(?) in public about playing for Ireland. So what? Every footballer these days lives their life in the press these days and uses it to their advantage if they can. It’s not like the press doesn’t use them. If he is using the irish card as a bargaining chip to get into the England squad then no doubt it will come back to haunt him in some way.

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This is International football, not club football.
Aldo, Houghton etc, when asked to play, said yes pretty much immediately
Who cares? about 75% of the posters on this board to start with

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Originally Posted by vega007

Quite frankly I think that if you weren't born or raised in Ireland then you shouldn't play for us. That said don't tell Mick McCarthy or John Aldridge they aren't Irish. Kevin Nolan can **** off, I don't want him on our team. If Wayne Rooney hadn't declared for England I would certainly take him though.

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O Dear, O Dear, O Dear. So what you mean to say is that anyone born outside of Ireland shouldn't play for us, although some of them can, but some of them can't, and then if your good you can, although you have to be very good, because if you just quite good like Nolan, then you can't? Is that simplified for ya?!!!!!!

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Originally Posted by vega007

Quite frankly I think that if you weren't born or raised in Ireland then you shouldn't play for us. That said don't tell Mick McCarthy or John Aldridge they aren't Irish. Kevin Nolan can **** off, I don't want him on our team. If Wayne Rooney hadn't declared for England I would certainly take him though.

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That is complete rubbish, there are plenty of Irish would weren't born in Ireland - Paul McGrath for one, plus there is Finnan who was born in Ireland, but wasn't brought up here!! I hate this type of ignorance....

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Originally Posted by vega007

Quite frankly I think that if you weren't born or raised in Ireland then you shouldn't play for us. That said don't tell Mick McCarthy or John Aldridge they aren't Irish. Kevin Nolan can **** off, I don't want him on our team. If Wayne Rooney hadn't declared for England I would certainly take him though.

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I assume you've had drink taken and I therefore won't comment on this post, it's too easy...Please clarify though.

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Originally Posted by vega007

Quite frankly I think that if you weren't born or raised in Ireland then you shouldn't play for us. That said don't tell Mick McCarthy or John Aldridge they aren't Irish. Kevin Nolan can **** off, I don't want him on our team. If Wayne Rooney hadn't declared for England I would certainly take him though.

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oh sweet jesus........:D

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

Ahh, I was talking about my own reasons for not having a problem with Nolan, reasons you seem incapable of understanding. I wasn't levelling republicanism at you. Maybe you are 12? :D

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4ttf, my good man, just because i have not come round to your way of thinking, that is not to say i have not understood your warblings on the matter.actually, i found your over-simplistic and somewhat myopic offerings, anything but diffcult to comprehend. you just havent argued anything well enough for me to consider it further, thats all, but hardly surprising when you are arguing in favour of a plainly, totally wrong cause, as the democratic process is now proving.:p

anyhooo........i grow weary of this whole shennanigans at this stage.

Anyone else thinks that this thread should be closed till there are actual concrete developments to the situation?

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Originally Posted by gustavo

Anyone else thinks that this thread should be closed till there are actual concrete developments to the situation?

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true enough, the debate has been done to death, but, im interested in how the vote is developing TBH,.... it will be too late for fans to give an opinion after the boyo declares, should he do. you know?

Unlikely to care though, is he?

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Originally Posted by nedder

This is International football, not club football.
Aldo, Houghton etc, when asked to play, said yes pretty much immediately
Who cares? about 75% of the posters on this board to start with

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where did i say club football?

so he didnt say yes in 0.2 seconds. well he must be a crap footballer so....

if he does a Aldo, Houghton etc then about 75 % of this board might not care anymore that he took time over a decision on who to play for.

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Originally Posted by gustavo

Anyone else thinks that this thread should be closed till there are actual concrete developments to the situation?

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Excellent idea. Nobody has added anything new to the debate. We all know the situation.

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Originally Posted by kingoffifa

where did i say club football?.

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Well you're treating it like club football...

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Originally Posted by kingoffifa

so he didnt say yes in 0.2 seconds. well he must be a crap footballer so.....

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What??????????????

I'll lock this so. Any complaints pm me about it.

May be time to reopen the Nolan thread!. This from RTE.

Anyone else think Nolan is waiting for McClaren's first England squad, if he's not in that he'll try to declare for us.

Steve Staunton is still hoping that Kevin Nolan will don the green Irish jersey

Republic of Ireland manager Steve Staunton is hoping to cut through a mountain of red tape in a bid to lure Kevin Nolan into the fold.


Staunton and Bolton captain Nolan have discussed on several occasions the prospect of the midfielder pulling on the green of Ireland.


Staunton is eager to recruit a player of Nolan's calibre, yet there remain obstacles, even though he qualifies to play for the Republic via the grandparents' ruling.



Nolan has previously played for England at under-21 level, albeit in a friendly, and featured in a competitive game for the under-18s.


There is a precedent as Everton's Tim Cahill played for Samoa at youth level, yet now represents Australia after lodging a successful appeal with FIFA.


Staunton is not giving up just yet as he said: 'There's a lot of issues surrounding this one.


'Once we cut through the red tape then we will know where we are, and I cannot say much more than that.'