Combined player stats for the two qualifiers
I don’t know about hate for Ogbene but certainly I felt he got a bit more criticism than he deserved.
He made a great run and cross the other night from his own box.
Against Hungary he threw the cat among the pigeons and caused panic among the Hungarians.
He obviously had some poor play also but I thought he showed more potential than most of the others
Yep, Delaney made some very good points.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jd2793
Don’t forget that NI only won once in their first 18 matches under O’Neill.Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
Pretty much yeah.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
They’re essentially looking at Ferguson, Kelleher and Collins and thinking we should be competing with or beating x, y and z. Completely forgetting (and I’m like a broken record on this) that we almost play without a midfield. We can’t maintain decent possession because of it; we can’t feed our forwards with good through balls; and our defence is always under more pressure because we’re so easy to play against. And…we also don’t really have good quality wide players to compensate for it.
The cherry on top of all of that is the low morale around the team, and that’s a killer.
I think that's more balanced for sure, though he did get hauled off at halftime in Armenia (along with Taylor of course, who also drew criticism here), so posters here weren't alone in thinking he wasn't up to scratch in the first half.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fixer82
Yes, NI did show great patience at that time and it surely did pay off for them in the long term. Interesting, how that did work out so well for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
i love ogbene. i just don't think he was anywhere close to being match fit and his performance against Armenia reflected that.
Match unfit or overtrained - i.e. possible he pushed himself too hard in his injury recovery. Regardless, it questions the selection decisions. Tony O’D asked HH about the Ogbene/ Taylor selection and subsequent half-time substitution of both post-match but didn’t really get an answer. Also, would be good to clarify if HH is still leaning on the O’Shea input. The space between the lines is something we have seen too often with O’Shea’s involvement in the senior setup. HH teams of the past are known to be structured and compact.
Collins barely 50:50 on duels stands out to me. As do Cullen's passing stats compared with Knight's.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
It seems to be open season on the players now.
Roy Keane was pretty scathing of our Premier League players on The Overlap, talking about how there are certain individuals who "strut around as if they are players" but wouldn't last at a proper club. James McClean bemoaned the team's lack of aggression and that observation seems to be borne out in the duel stats posted above. Even our big, strong players look weak at times, particularly on set-pieces. So many have pointed out the lack of leadership on the pitch and game intelligence among the players - the endless, predictable long throws being an example of their apparent inability to switch up. It's all very depressing.
Been watching games since 85 and honestly, the other night was the first time I found myself disliking the players a bit. Playing for Ireland is not just a jolly, but too many of them seem to treat it as such. And maybe we as fans send the wrong messages too often. We want the team to do well and we encourage them, but maybe our kindness towards Kenny and our enthusiasm despite results over recent years has sent the wrong message to the players?
EG, as good as this point is made and framed, it is factual incorrect. His time as assistant wasn’t included and HH was appointed joint manager in November 2013. He was joint manager with Lagerbäck for Euro 2016 qualification and the tournament itself – a fabulous job in charge to quote yourself. What follows in the rest of your post about HH is formed on this factual inaccuracy. I think it’s time for HH to go but we can give him his dues here. Maybe his failing with Ireland was not bringing in his own backing staff. And perhaps he should look to the support of trusted and familiar faces to give the last 4 games a decent go.Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Great shout. And something I had lost sight of. His appointment seemed to come with conditions related to O’Shea and others in the back room. And he seemed only too happy to agree to the point that, as Razor I think it was said, he deferred ownership over the team for far too long and maybe still is. Either way, it points to someone who is probably too decent or nice to challenge the status quo and do what you suggest which is probably too little too late now anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
I like HH a lot as an human and would love to see him do well as he is such a decent skin. The record shows he is also more than good enough to manage us. Maybe his time is up but I don’t foresee any notable improvement under any of the realistic candidates out there. Can you imagine O’Shea going back in FFS? Ugh. My point though, is that team is almost completely made up of absolute cowards. I said it right after the game and the stats posted there back it up 100%. The future is the bleakest it’s ever been.
This might be a little bit harsh. Really it's only one bad (competitive) result so far. Hungary first half was bad but credit is deserved for how we turned it around in the second half (yes, the red card helped, but that's football and the momentum was already turning by that point anyway), and Luxembourg can be written off as a June friendly.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Granted, Tuesday was a performance which probably surpassed anything under Kenny in the way we were outplayed by so low-ranked a team on such poor form, so I'm not outright disagreeing - just putting a bit of context on it.
Tis better to face upwards when you are in the gutter !Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Better than the alternative anyway !
One thing that I just don't understand about this camp. We heard Hallgrimsson previously say that he needed a ******* for his team. And yes, our squad is probably far to nice and too soft for when the going gets tough. But we do have one complete ******* we could have put in midfield - and he didn't even name him in the squad. He picked a player from St Mirren instead of him.
It was a selection decision that made no sense to me at all. If the two midfielders we picked in both games had Molumby in there with them doing the dirty work they might have actually been able to play a bit, and maybe we could have gotten back on the front foot against Armenia.
Let HH see out this campaign, bound to be a good reaction next month, Collins will probably play midfield against Portugal anyways and I'd stick Lawal beside him. O'Dowda and Ebosele need recalling too...
There might be a case made to abandon all pretence of being a football team and just pile as many big lads on as we can with the two fastest we can find supporting Ferguson. Narrow back four of all centre backs, Dunne, O'Brien, O'Shea, Scales. Collins and Lawal Anchoring the midfield with Molumby or Taylor for some dynamism. Ferguson up top with Ebosele and Ogbene wide, or bump up Kone-Doherty for pure pace and dribbling ability. Double down on playing for set pieces, defend deep and narrow and try to get the fast lads running off Ferguson on the break.
Collins in midfield, now theres something that is worth discussing. When we went away to Wembley Hallgrimsson showed a bit of innovation and thinking outside the box in how he utilized Collins. Not quite in midfield or defense and it worked really well until we got a red card and the whole thing went t1ts up. Why have we never seen that again? Why did we try something that looked like it could at least compensate for midfield issues get just get cast aside and never spoken of again. Hes never even looked like coming up with any other type of innovation since. Its kinda weird!Quote:
Originally Posted by Grafter
Number of factors, in no particular order:Quote:
Originally Posted by seanfhear
1. Michael took over a very young team, at a very low ebb, so while there was much work to do, the only way was up;
2. Performances were often better than results;
3. Game management got better - eg Michael pointed out how had games ended after 75 minutes, we'd have gained many more points than we eventually did;
4. Michael needed as much time as possible to work with the players and get his ideas across eg Training Camps rather than meaningless friendlies. Also a summer tour to Central America was crucial in drawing all this together and bonding the team;
5. Michael "gets" who NI are;
6. Michael is a genius.
Excellent ~ Can we now have Michael O'Neill Please ? !Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
No doubt you know much more about him than me, but looking from the outside this "joint manager" idea seems to me to be LL doing a pal (and native Icelander) a favour, so that HH may be seen as Peter Taylor to LL's Brian Clough. (Or Ernie Wise to LL's Eric Morecambe, if you can still see any humour in this.)Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Which I suspect must explain why LL (Sweden, Nigeria, Iceland, Norway) has been selected for a rather higher calibre of management position than HH (Iceland, Al-Arabi, Jamaica, ROI).
Aye, but even that says something. That is, even with few (any?) other credible candidates in contention after all that time searching, he still didn't feel confident enough to demand at least one Assistant of his own. In other words, he needed a job as much as the FAI needed him?Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Either way, unless something very unexpected occurs over the next four games, I can only see his epitaph as reading: "The wrong man in the wrong job at the wrong time. But apart from that..."
I'm sure Portugal would be crapping it at the thought of playing a Liverpool U21 up front. Could end up putting us under even more pressureQuote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
I think there's something to be said for a similar experiment as England away - and if that means Collins as a very deep-lying midfielder, so be it
Edit - also just realising Portugal started with two away games, so this will be the first home game since Jota died.
I suspect they'll be well well up for it and we'll get thumped
The truth of it is, none of us have a clue what the starting 11 will be in any of the upcoming games.
That’s not a good thing.
The team has no identity and it shows.
The players look confused
It is a possibility as you are perhaps unaware Lagerbäck was joint manager with Sweden, judging by the following text? …Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Perhaps you can consider reviewing Lagerbäck’s win % as joint manager with Sweden and how that compares to his time as solo manager. And repeat that comparison for Iceland while you are at it. Far from conclusive, but there is more than one way to skin a cat, however culturally alien than may feel. Which goes back to HH not bringing in his own (let’s say more cultural close) backroom …Quote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Pretty sure his main demand was Gudmundur Hreidarsson would be his right hand man on the ticket, which he got. I know someone else mentioned the coaching staff first but I can't find it easilyQuote:
Originally Posted by EalingGreen
Ok, let's make it simpler.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
Suppose you were the Chairman of an Association and needed to appoint a new NT manager. Which of LL or HH would you choose?
And how long would you need to consider it?
One minute? Two, maybe?
Seeing this yesterday made me feel somehow more optimistic about facing Portugal in Dublin: https://x.com/EireVideos/status/1967616208649478578
I dont think Ive ever been less optimistic as a fan. Feels like we are just in the same cycle over and overQuote:
Originally Posted by elatedscum
I'd feel optimistic about facing Portugal in Dublin next month anyway, given Portugal will be in Lisbon :p
Otherwise, yeah. That Armenia setback will take something big to reverse.
I meant the November game!Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
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