Careful ~ Don't go off half-cocked !Quote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
We are not exactly in any position to be turning our noses up at any potential decent players !
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Careful ~ Don't go off half-cocked !Quote:
Originally Posted by weldoninhio
We are not exactly in any position to be turning our noses up at any potential decent players !
If he plays in the San Marino game in March that would commit him to us for the Under 21 campaign. Which would mean England would have to call him up at senior level to take him at that point.
If he's open to a return in March then Crawford should only welcome him back if he plays in the San Marino game. Could be three or four friendlies for the U21s next year. Don't want him playing in those games and then possibly switching before Septembers qualifiers. Especially when those minutes could be used to integrate someone like O'Mahony into the squad.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Would agree with that. I wouldn't be in favour of the "tell him to shove it" approach because he has sat on the fence for a few months. In fairness to him he is a dual national so it's understandable that he may have split loyalties. But, having had the time out, if he's coming back he needs to fully commit this time. That will mean making himself available for the San Marino game and a senior call up if one was to follow (he's not in the frame at the moment but if he got a run in the Leicester team that could change fairly quickly).
Im trying to think of lads who took a bit of time to decide to play for us and the last one that I can think of that chose us in that situation is Clinton Morrison.
Would Chio Ogbene count? He certainly made it clear on a few occasions that we were his second choice.
Ebosele had a bit of a wobble at one point and then came back. Don't think we ever really got the full story there. Oko-flex and Odubeko would be two others, but the likelihood is they'll both fall short of the standard to play senior for us anyway.
I suppose I was more thinking of senior players, theres been a few at underage alrightQuote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I think regardless of his PR and the optics. Scott Hogan is someone who ridiculously might have felt he had a chance with England. He went on to blow smoke up our asses for awhile before reality set inQuote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
You're right, hes one that took a while for sure and Cannon could very well be a similar standard to HoganQuote:
Originally Posted by Diggs246
Will Keane?
I think picking Tom Cannon will cause more harm than good. Yes he’s a good player but the Irish u21s are in a good spot at the moment mentally, adding someone to the squad who had to think about where he’s from could be bad for the squad moral and culture. I would rather promote someone like O’Mahony who’s got more upside anyway and tbh I don’t get how he was in the u21s in the first place…
I dont think I agree with that. The players are professionals and tend to be pragmatic. If a player comes in and trains properly the rest of the players dont really care about anything else.Quote:
Originally Posted by CSAD
Didn't Harry Arter have a series of injuries but played for Bournemouth either side of the window when he was flying for them ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Razors left peg
Around the time Merson was touting him for England on Soccer Saturday & we used to laugh at Merson for not knowing.
How young & innocent we were.
Cannon has a reputation for being an excellent professional and a dedicated trainer. There will be no issue with him coming back in if that's his decision, he will drive up standards if anything.
Are you saying that Cannon isn't good enough for the 21s? He's just been bought for £7.5m at age 20. He scored 8 goals in 20 games in a half-season loan last season for Preston. I'd certainly argue Cannon is more likely to be a top player than O'Mahony. O'Mahony could be very good but if he was put up for sale by Brighton, the fee would be a fraction of Cannon's.Quote:
Originally Posted by CSAD
It's a strange one regarding sitting on the fence - everything I heard about him the camp against Iceland was really really positive. He turned up to the awful game against the amateurs in freezing conditions when Okoflex, Sotona, Hill and Neville didn't show up. There were certainly murmurs that his agent Kenny Moyes (David's brother) is a difficult character.
I'd reintegrate him against San Marino and play a front three of Armstrong on the right, Cannon in the centre and Emakhu on the left.
Look at you sharing player name puns like a pro, tets :p
Indeed.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
https://c.tenor.com/5EPcM2YornsAAAAC...ptain-holt.gif
Scores a second goal. Will probably have Carsley on the phone to him after today's game.
Adds a second in the second half
Not sure if this is good or bad for us! Good to see he's not a half-season wonder. But that's the sort of form that might lead to him taking his time about committing his international future
"Hi Tom, Lee Carsley here. I think you should play for England Under 21s. Although there's a chance I might quit in the next few weeks for another role. In which case I think you should play for Ireland."Quote:
Originally Posted by JR89
Lee might hold off on making the call just yet.
Look, if England take Cannon, we should at least get Delap in return! The problem for us is that there is a clear path to the England first team for a forward like Cannon - beyond Kane, the current England team is a bit lacking in firepower - Rashford scores fairly regularly but isn't prolific, Saka is a winger and nobody else is close to double digits for them. Plus they won the U-21 Euros with one recognised striker in the whole squad. One of the first tasks for the new manager - sound him out and, if he's ready to commit, move him up to the seniors because he's starting to look ready.
Cannon has potential but still has someway to go - Everton are in dire straights and are barely scoring a goal a game - and still they sold him during the summer. Now he has the rest of this season to develop and we will see how good he is next season in the PL - but to suggest he is getting anywhere close to the England set-up is laughable at this stage - and while he will be a good striker I can't see him ever being in the Ferguson category.
Longer we go without naming a new manager the more I think it's not going to be Carsley.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
That's it, it's time to ask for a decision - there's no way he should be left in the U21s any more to wait and see - they only have a game against San Marino before the Nations League starts and we need to know about his intentions before September so we can blood him in or let him go. It's time to call him up to prepare him - if he wants to skip to March friendlies to consider his international future, I'm OK with that, but if he wants be part of the Fall games, we need him to play in the post-season friendlies.
I really think we should leave him off , he has behaved really disrespectfully to us. If he came on board given that attitude he likely would not show up much or show minimal commitment on the pitch.
Tend to agree but maybe one last effort from new management and after that good riddanceQuote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
FWIW, Cannon has a reputation for being an excellent trainer and it was notable that he showed up for the Under 20s game when many others didn't. So, while it's frustrating that he remains undecided at this point, I don't think we would need to have any longer term concerns about his commitment or application if he does come back into the setup.
In general Irish supporters tend to have a bit of a negative attitude in these dual national situations. If you look at the Welsh, they seem to have little issue when their players consider other countries, they seem to trust that the ones that want to play for them will come back and the ones that don't, won't. We should probably do the same rather than setting arbitrary deadlines that mean nothing in reality. If he wants to sit out 2024 internationally completely, then that's fine as far as I'm concerned. He can come back when he's ready, or not at all if that's his preference.
I have no issue with that when your a kid say in your teens. So if golding from Chelsea switched back to us I'd have no problem but Cannon has been in our setup since he was 16 so if now at 21 he does not want to stay part of it no problem but respect the country and set up and say thanks I had a great time and it meant so much to me and my family but my real dream is to play for England. I would applauded that ,thank him for his efforts and recognise that he has a strong sense of been irish but that his desire to play for England is just that bit stronger. Grealish to his eternal credit behaved excellently in a similar situation and I certainly have nothing but respect for GrealishQuote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I think it's clear that playing for England is of some interest to him, but that he doesn't want to turn his back on Ireland completely either. I actually feel a bit sorry for him, he's being asked to make a call that would end his Irish career by playing for England under 21s, or that would rule out England completely by playing for the Irish seniors. Whereas if he hadn't played for Ireland before now he could just play for England under 21s knowing that it wasn't costing him his Ireland career. I think he's being hard done by in terms of the rules in that regard, he's effectively being punished for playing Under 19s for us.
So in his case I could understand if he decided to just skip underage football entirety at this point and then make a call next year one way or the other (in fact I would welcome that as it would make it more likely that he ends up with us).
Grealish was and is a generational talent and marked as such on a national level since he was about 14. Grealish was in a position where he didn't need to fall back on Ireland. He never needed to the safety blanket. Rice did need it until he didn't. Cannon probably needs it still.Quote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
Yep. In the end of the day he's English with an Irish relative. He's just gone 21 and has had a great year (injury aside). If he can maintain that improvement, could he be hitting double figures in the Premier in a couple of years? Would that be enough to get him on the fringes of the English team for, say, the next World Cup? Maybe, maybe not. But I can understand him not wanting to rule the possibility out so early in his career.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I wouldn't be planning on him playing for us this year tbh.
But sure if he wanted to do that he coukd just have 0layed under 21 for us last summer and he coukd still have switched when England offered him a senior capQuote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
Grealish obviously just had a better morale compass and likely better family support to help him make his decision in a respectful way .Quote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé
If you say so.Quote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the...d-preston/amp/Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Same connection as Grealish - 3 relatives i.e. 2 paternal grandparents and 1 maternal.
The problem with that is that it's fairly clear that he's worth a senior cap for us. So if he plays under 21s and does well, then everyone starts calling for him to be moved up. That was already happening last summer after his stint at Preston. So if he isn't moved up then the questions as to why start coming and someone has to get the blame - either he gets hammered for playing Under 21s but not senior or Kenny (last summer) or the new manager covers for him and gets hammered for not promoting a talented player. So I don't think coming back to only play Under 21s is a realistic option now. Once he was in the frame for a senior call he had to either commit, switch to England or step back for a while. I can see why he has done what he has done.Quote:
Originally Posted by liamoo11
A very fair and measured comment, Eirambler. In a way, I hope I am wrong, but I think Cannon will score far more goals in his career than either Parrott or Idah. It will be a significant loss if he leaves the Ireland camp.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eirambler
I can't see how anyone could think cannons behaviour is superior to Grealish s around this? If this was your son or daughter which course of action would you ask them to follow ? It's all very well been a good footballer but you should want to behave respectfully as well as a personQuote:
Originally Posted by Olé Olé