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The biggest worry I have with the Greek game, is the amount of time between the end of the Football League and the game.. did someone saw yesterday the league finishes six weeks earlier..
Players will have lost all match fitness and sharpness, and will be well in holiday mode
Greece are at about our level. They're ahead of us in ELO and right behind us in the FIFA system. Three points is not a given and nothing should be positioned that way; its a realistic target at best. Away from home it is that bit trickier for the reasons I outlined earlier. "Should be" winning is setting up a narrative to beat to death later if we don't. Having to get 6 points in June to qualify, I'll just about agree on that (as others have pointed out, 4 points does just about keep qualification within our sights).Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
Who from our squad would get into their squad, Boomer, and who would they boot out? I know about as much of their players as I had in my post above - it is a lot of unknown about the quality of those playing for AEK, PAOK, Olympiakos and those elsewhere in Turkey, Netherlands and Germany other than a lot of them are playing euro level regularly - and more so than our Championship and League 1 players. Not sure I could be as definitive as you in that regard but I trust you have done your research.
The Greek league ends on May 14th. So they will be on holiday mode as well? The premier league ends towards the end of May so we could have an advantage. Next.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
The Greek Gods might be against us ~ Probably will (wink )Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
6 of our starting team on Monday are either premier league players or soon to be premier league players. Another player is in a La Liga club. Greece would love to have them in their squad. Our lower ranking is based on a horrible two/three years. Our players are really at around a top 30 in the world level or maybe better. My research on Greece is based on their performances in the last couple of years. They've had one or two good results but they've mostly been playing weak enough sides.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Greece are the Georgia/Wales/Slovakia type team in this group who we know are hard to beat but we fancy ourselves to do so. When we failed to beat these type of teams in the past, the reaction was somewhere between disappointed and outraged. I don't see why we should just accept a draw now. After the defeat on Monday, I think this game is in the must win category if we want to qualify.
Greece seem to have a smattering of players playing all over Europe,1 Premier League player who sits on Liverpools bench mostly,a couple of Championship players,George Baldock of Sheffield United randomly being one of them ,no idea what to expect of them tbh but certainly nothing to be very worried about after what we faced on Monday….
They’re also managed by Gus Poyet,a very good premier league player in his day with less success managing over there….
I definitely wouldn't be taking the Greeks for granted. Best case scenario is four points from both games I'd say
From the Greek team that started against Gibralatar, 1 Portuguese Primeira Liga, 2 Championship, 1 Eredivisie, 1 Premier League, 1 Bundesliga, 2 Greek Super League, 2 Turkish Super Lig, 1 MLS. Only two players outside the top division in each country, and one of them will be in the top division in the nextQuote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
Keep grinding that axe, it's not tiresome at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
What did your research tell you about Greece's players? Or about beating Sweden and Norway, or drawing with Belgium?Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
Greece have beaten Georgia in recent years.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
Every game is a must win in this group. We can't afford a slip up if we want to finish second. Nobody has said they would accept a draw, it's been pointed out repeatedly that Greece are tough to beat at home, and there will be several factors in the game outside of the players, formation, and tactics. To ignore them is foolhardy.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
The Greek game is key we need 6 points off them to give us a chance to push the Dutch. Its going to mean picking players to win not contain. To me that will mean igbene drops out(or plays right wing back) for obafemi and smallbone comes in for probably Knight with o dowdy coming in for doherty . That gives us odowda and smallbone on set pieces and takes that responsibility away from Cullen which keeps us more secure when attacking as your defensive midfielder isn't out of the game after taking a corner or free kick when the opposition break. It gives us more creativity in midfield and a centre forward in obafemi who will take chances and link with ferguson but won't run the channels and work back as well as ogbene. I'd fear that that awful concept in prifesdional sport of loyalty will come into it and the team who played so well against France will be rewarded by starting again despite the requirements for the Greek game been very different I.e. get on the front foot get out of the low block and play in their half to create chancesQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Greece are not at Georgia's level.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
20 degrees in Greece in June is absolute bull****. The average daily minimum in June is 21 degrees in Athens (per https://www.climatestotravel.com/climate/greece/athens). That's the temperature you'd expect shortly before dawn. Average max is 30. Arguing that those temperatures won't affect a team not used to them is crap. Doherty and Johnston aside, our players don't routinely play in those temperatures.
You're winding people up with this stuff, and need to better distinguish opinion and fact in your posts, or you're going to start accumulating infractions.
The premier league is stronger than those leagues you mention for the Greek team.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
It's true though, we're at a low ranking because of very poor results under this management.
My research told me that their players are mostly playing in average enough leagues. Friendly results don't really matter anymore. They drew with Malta and Lithuania recently but I wouldn't read anything into that. Same with friendly results against Belgium and Norway. The Swedish result was very good as was the draw with Spain. I mentioned the good results in my post but also that they've mostly been playing weak enough teams.
Greece beat Georgia away with two injury time goals and it was a draw between them in Greece. I'd say that puts them close enough. The injury time goals were the difference between them in the group. Fairly even.
Not every game is a must win. If we get home victories, I think a draw away to Holland could do us along with Greece and Gibraltar wins. I've said it's going to be tough to beat Greece but we have nothing to fear. We'd be very disappointed not to win against teams like this in the past and that hasn't changed.
But the game isn't on in the day? I've been to Greece in the summer, I found the evenings lovely. But I never played a match when I was there so maybe I'm mistaken. I'm not winding people up, I asked was I wrong that the game is at 9:45. At that time the temperature should be under 20, even at 8:45 it won't be too bad. I was going on what I remember from being there but I looked up a few websites there now and they all say similar. Even your link says it goes down to 16 degrees at night time at the start of June. So a bit higher by mid June. Am I reading this all wrong? I'd be happy to admit it if so.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Even your link says it goes down to 16 degrees at night time at the start of June. So a bit higher by mid June. Am I reading this all wrong? I'd be happy to admit it if so.[/QUOTE]
You are. The table clearly says average minimum in June is 21. You're looking at May.
I'm talking about at night. Lower down on that page it says the following for June:Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
On the coldest nights, which normally occur at the beginning of the month, the temperature usually drops to around 16 °C (60.5 °F). However, it dropped to 12.8 °C (55 °F) in June 1991.
That's the beginning of the month so probably a bit hotter by mid June. The game is on at 9:45. It could be between 18 and 20 degrees?
Why are you talking about the coldest nights at the start of the month? Or a night in 1991?
If you're picking extremes to back your case, you've a bad case.
On 16th June last year at 9:45pm at the airport weather station in Athens, it was 24C - https://www.wunderground.com/history...date/2022-6-16. Previous years were similar; within a couple of degrees.
Why so argumentative? We're just trying to figure out the conditions for the match in June here.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
I'm not posting extremes, I copied and pasted exactly what it said for nighttime in June on John83's link. And then asked would it be 2 to 4 degrees higher by mid June. I'm not making a case for anything, just stating that I don't think it would be too bad at night to play a match. Everything I looked up said it'll be 20 degrees or a little bit under in June at nighttime. Your link says it'll be a couple of degrees higher at the airport during match time. Fair enough, we've figured it could be between 19 and 24 degrees for the match.
Some might think that's too hot, I think the players will be well able to handle it. No big deal. I'm sure everyone's bored with the weather updates now.
So much for this anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
Damn sure you’d read plenty into it if it was Ireland getting those results though. Still, good to see that you agree it will be tough to get a win there, which is all anyone is saying. I’m not reading anyone saying we can’t win it, or that we shouldn’t be targeting a win.Quote:
Originally Posted by BOOMSHAKALAKA
People were talking about it being 30 degrees. That's what I was disagreeing with. We've figured it won't be. John's link was saying it was 16 degrees at night at the start of June. Yours says it's higher at the start of June and in mid June. I wasn't reading it wrong but if it makes you happy I can say I was wrong? It really doesn't matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
It's an internet discussion board. People disagree on things, have different points of view etc. Not everything has to be a heated argument. Some people seem to take others having an opposing view personally. Some were saying they don't want to post anymore, there was one fella who came on to put all 'anti Kenny' supporters back in their box. He ended up basically saying 'your mum'.
I just don't get it. Why the bitterness? We all want what's best for Ireland, we just think there's different ways of going about it. I understand I might overstate my point sometimes, I apologise for that. I don't mean any harm by it. Like John83 said, put me on ignore if I'm annoying you but don't stop posting or start throwing insults. It's a discussion forum on a topic we all love. Enjoy it.
No, friendlies should be about trying new players or different tactical things. The Latvia game last week didn't interest me, even if we lost. I didn't care about the results of the friendlies last November, only that it was a missed opportunity to try things. I've said from the start that Greece away will be tough. And it will be but I can't remember a time where we ever had it easy playing away to teams like this. Or most teams let's be honest. But there are people saying that 4 points from Greece will be acceptable. It's not because it more than likely means we won't be qualifying for the Euros.Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyD
In the interests of precision, the historical average night time temperature in Athens on 16 June is 19c.
https://www.accuweather.com/en/gr/at...weather/182536
That being said the past couple of years have been significantly higher (no surprise there...) so we're looking at 24-25 degrees most likely. Balmy, but not intolerable.
To those heading over, drink plenty liquids!
That's a forecast I think. If you go to 2022 on that link, it shows a low of 20 degrees in June - never went lower than that. Some days never went lower than 25. And kick-off wouldn't be the coldest time of the day.
They're preparing well for it this summer after last year anyway. We'll have a nine day warm weather training camp in Turkey and Kenny wants a behind closed doors friendly the week before we play Greece. Four day mini camp in England at the end of the season, assume the PL season which finishes May 28th which is three weeks after the championship.Quote:
Originally Posted by zero
Jeepers ,all this weather discussion just because one poster, in order to downplay any difficulty in the Greek away game, said it wasn't going to be very warm?
We are in dimpled chad territory ( for those of a certain vintage ) in what ironically in Kenny is our own Brexit / Trump national polarisation moment.
Football anoraks and weather geeks are kissing cousins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Off topic posts moved to thread in the support forum
A truly awful half of football too.
Only turned it on from the 70th minute but the Dutch looked an absolute shambles,they played the second half of extra time with Frankie DeJong at CB launching balls to VVD and Weghorst….
They were a shambles, pity we weren't playing them this weekend. You could say it was only the NL finals, they weren't that bothered as no real prize at stake (though > Carling Cup) but they were at home and that comatose crowd went ballistic after they equalised at the death. Hopefully it's time for another Netherlands qualifier campaign shocker.Quote:
Originally Posted by joey B
They actually looked the better team in the first half, moving the ball around with ease and overloading out wide. Their goal when it came was well deserved. Croatia came back at them superbly. I missed all but the last 5 mins of ET though. I was told the Dutch missed a sitter to make it 3-3.Quote:
Originally Posted by joey B
We can do an update on the playoff situation now that the weekend's games are over - all will change again on Mon/Tues of course, and even then we won't be half-way through qualifying, so this is all still up in the air.
League A
Holland
Spain
Italy
Wales
League B
Israel
Bosnia
Finland
Iceland
League C
Luxembourg
Azerbaijan
Kosovo
Bulgaria
Norway and Slovenia are ahead of us in the race for a League B playoff spot. Six teams ranked below us are currently qualifying automatically - we need that to be two or less (assuming that, ultimately, there's less than four League A sides that don't qualify by rights, when Estonia bypass us to get added to that playoff). Of those -
- Georgia have already drawn with Norway and beaten Cyprus - but it's hard to see how they'll keep ahead of Spain, who lost to Scotland. They'll stay in the top two until September anyway, as Spain are playing Nations League this weekend, while Georgia travel to in-form Scotland.
- Romania slipped up with a draw in Kosovo (where Andorra also drew) while Israel won in Belarus; Romania are still three points ahead of Israel, who we'd like to see qualify. Romania are away to Switzerland on Monday, while Israel host Andorra - a five-goal swing and Israel would be up to second.
- Greece are in our group of course - we would like to see them finish behind Holland, and while you'd still expect that to happen, it's maybe a bit less likely given Holland's performance against Croatia in the Nations League and Greece's performance against us. It's France v Greece on Monday.
- Turkey got a 95th-minute winner in Latvia, while Wales - who we want to see qualify instead - lost 4-2 at home to Armenia. Turkey host Wales on Monday; if they win, they'd be five points clear.
- Kazakhstan are one of four teams on six points in their group, along with Denmark, Finland and Slovenia. Any two of those three would be fine for us. Kazakhstan travel to Belfast on Monday, while Slovenia host Denmark and Finland host San Marino.
- Slovakia won in Iceland while Bosnia (who we want to see qualify) lost in Portugal. Slovakia are four points clear now - having beaten Bosnia at home - but really today's results were predictable enough, so no real change here
Romania, Turkey and Slovakia look the real dangers at this stage. Probably 50/50 we make the playoffs I think - and a lot less that we actually manage to beat two countries of a similar strength to us as things stand, but that's a different story!.
I'll add the wiki link to the first post
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_E...ying_play-offs
It was always 50/50 making the play offs, but yeah, we're still in with a bit of a shout..Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
Only thing about it is... if we do make them, we'll likely be double poxxed, by end up as the final team making up the A path play off with Wales/Estonia/Slovakia...
We'd still struggle to get out of that on current form, but I genuinely believe Kenny will get the sack after Mondays game, and maybe we'll get a new manager bounce.. or something.. I'm clutching at straws here..
Praying for Isreal and Bosnia to get their **** together
That would only happen if we don't win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
Actually another good reason to hope Holland finish ahead of Greece alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insidetherock
The League A playoff last time was Iceland (the only League A side that didn't qualify on merit), Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania. The League B playoff was us, the North, Slovakia and Bosnia. Probably slightly stronger
France 1 up at home to Greece.
Regarding play off spots..
We'll get one if no more than 2 teams who finished below up in the Nations League don't qualify automatically
Wales are muck.. so expect Turkey to come out of that group
Austria and Belguim should keep Sweden behind them
Finland and Denmark should have enough to see off Kazakhstan
The way I see it now, the ones that frighten me, are Romania and Slovakia
And of course, Greece not coming out of our own group..
We've still a decent play off chance
Just watching the France highlights earlier. How did the Greek keeper get done for encroachment on the pen when he clearly had one foot behind the line ? The same thing was being allowed in the shootout in the Nations League final last night.