Who's going to pay him?Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
Who's going to pay him?Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
John Delaney ! ! LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I was skeptical when Kenny first got the job because I thought he wouldn't get the respect from senior players and I thought the job would be too big for him. On the otherhand I wanted to give him a chance as I thought that we might finally see some football being played.
However, I do feel Kenny is out of his depth as Irish manager and should really be put back with the U21's where he was actually doing a good job. The performances have been rubbish, we don't have a Plan B and the players cannot score even if their lives depended on it. It seems the FAI haven't two pennies to rub together so cannot get rid of Kenny though so it looks like we are stuck with him.
i thought the commentary on sky said his clearance had just come through. thats what i thought i heard anywayQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Well thank God those three are over. That said, they were beneficial in blooding the youngsters, however equally for reaffirming the inadequacy of a shower of heartless, older mediocrity in the squad.
Positives: O’Shea (AKA the new Dunne), Molomby, Knight, Doherty, Idah, Long
Negatives: Hourihane, Brady, McLean, Duffy, Hendrick
The remainder either needed more time (Parrot & Byrne), or continue with severe question marks that they are up to International Standard such as Collins, Curtis, Manning and Horgan (although the fact they all displayed more desire and bravery than the seasoned pros in the team is embarrassing).
It’s becoming increasingly evident that we need to write off Qatar and build for the next Euros and beyond a lot like France did when they sacrificed Euro 96 for 98.
Whether or not, Kenny is the man must surely be questioned by even his most ardent of supporters. I hope he succeeds and applaud his footballing approach, however adaptability is the key to existence and sticking a bench of average square pegs in round holes is obviously not working.
With an abundance of solid centre halves (currently and emerging) and a dirth of centre midfielders, along with the two of the best wing backs in the country, I’d love to see us line our line this in March with Coleman interchangeable at wing back and Parrot and Bazuna pushing at the fringes:
Randolph
O’Shea Long Clarke
Doherty Knight Molomby Stevens
Robinson Idah Connolly
As it is, I anticipate Kenny will maintain with a flat back four, slow build up and continued integration with average older players in his persisted flawed strategy.
If this is the case and we still show no signs of success, one man I would love to see given a chance is one of my favourite players to wear the green shirt, Steven Reid, a man who typified heart and desire on the pitch, is learning under experienced managers in Hodgson, Hughton and Clarke and has that hardworking attitude (he apparently used to drive to London from Manchester daily to coach Palace) which is infectious. The fact that he has experience in helping a team get to a major tournament is invaluable - the fact that it’s with Scotland and not Ireland is a tragedy.
In fairness, that stat can't really be used as a comparison when Kenny has had a NL campaign against teams of a nominally similar level (actually, given we were relegated last time and have lost players since, we're clearly among the weakest League B teams) while Stan got to play San Marino twice and could field Duff, Given, Keane, Harte, Kilbane, Dunne, Ireland and other players we would kill for nowQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I think you are high on some seriously heavy drugs if you have in your head the thought that Eddie Howe would become Ireland manager.Quote:
Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo
The arse would have fall out of his career entirely over a period of several years before he is at that level.
I don't know how accurate this summary is, but if we're paying €500k, then we won't be troubling anyone who can get an offer from a Premier League club. Below that level though - including out-of-work managers - and the salary doesn't seem bad.
I don't think the approach is wrong or there is an issue with the formation, but the selection choices made last night need to be questioned (even accounting for the large number of absentees and the disruption this brings). The Cullen/ Hourihane choice is a no-brainer; there is no fluidity in the team with Hourihane playing as a DM - he needs to be the linkage between defence + midfield/ attack, rather than the ball back to Duffy which he played more often than not. Our play immediately improved once Cullen came on as he became that linkage and could move the ball forward. And the other substitutions made could have been made earlier. Not sure how match fit Jack Byrne is, but we improved again when he came on as he wanted the ball, and brought others into the game.
The performance of the other senior players in the team was disappointing. Randolph looks very shaky at the moment, really struggling with the ball at his feet/ has had a tendency to lob nothing balls out to the fullbacks that puts them and the team on the back foot.
Duffy looks like a novice at senior football; he seems lost, uncertain, lacking confidence - (but could be helped with more purpose in the DM position - Duffy should not be on the ball as much as he is).
Brady is trying hard but maybe that's the issue. He just feels like he is doing his own thing and is removed from the rest of the team.
As for the others, Manning had a first half to forget and I would have taken him off at the half. O'Shea and Knight did ok - probably senior football is still a bit early from them. Horgan, Collins and Curtis worked hard but just lacking that guile needed at this level.
😀 exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by DCWA
I did a quick brain storm on who might take the job at a rate we might be able to afford and managed to come up with a few ideas,
A couple of USMNT coaches in Bob Bradley or Bruce Arena. There's a clatter of former Watford managers out there in Quique Sánchez Flores, Francesco Guidolin & Marco Silva. Or there's David Wagner. Wagner and Silva might be a bit ambitious though.
Or there's the option of asking Brian Kerr to step in and stabilise things until the pandemic is over and the FAI's position is clearer.
Can some on here defending the so called makey uppey 2 year plan in bullet point form summarise the positive and negatives from these first 8 games? Not big long paragraphs just bullet point one liners. And don't mention anything that could/might/potentially happen. What positives they saw and negatives. There's plenty on here who've referenced that "building for the future/forget WC 2022/it's a 2 year project" . I want to hear from them moreso on this.
You wouldn't know a fact if it landed on your head.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
And you say we're lucky to have been able to play our inexperienced youngsters but they were unlucky to have missed so many of their experienced players?
I've no idea what their strength in depth is like tbh. But based on last night, if Ryan Manning is an example of ours, then we haven't much to shout about.
Manning has started two matches in four months, I'm not really sure what people expected.
It's a bit early and rather knee-jerk to write the lad off after just one game.
Pros:
- There has been progress on integrating young players into the team, to varying degrees of success. Molumby, O'Shea, Knight & Connolly already look like being starters in the next campaign
- In retrospect having seen how the world cup pots ended up the likelihood is that dropping a pot it won't be too harmful. The is no big whale in pot 2 this time for us to be unlucky enough to get. We would like to avoid Poland in pot 2 and Bosnia in pot 4, but if we manage that the worst case scenario is something along the lines of France, Sweden, ourselves, Slovenia, Cyprus & Moldova. As ever it'll be a battle royale between the 2nd & 3rd seed.
- The judges trying to decide the goal of the year competition aren't going to need long
Cons:
- We are toothless going forward
- We are easy to play against
- Even our defensive organisation is showing signs of decline. We were terribly lucky last night not to lose with the number of balls we gave away in dangerous positions. We were only saved by Bulgaria being even worse than us.
- We haven't really played anyone of note in a competitive game. If we run into a team like Spain next year playing lie this they could put 8 or 9 past us.
- We are getting away with it for now, but when the crowds come back it won't wash. Had there been fans in Landsowne Road last night the atmosphere would have been toxic.
My biggest concern now is that the previous games were actually useful in providing lessons, useful nuggets that you can piece together into a bigger picture. I don't think Kenny has learnt any of these lessons. The absences and circumstances can mitigate the results but in among all that there have been pointers to what works and what doesn't work.
Duffy's inability as a ball using footballer is a problem for how this team wants to play.
Hourihane is too passive and simply lacks presence, has no influence on a game. He did play a couple of dangerous balls in the second half but playing well for 5 minutes out of 90 isn't enough.
Brady, if he is to be picked at all has to be further up the pitch, assuming he's not pushed back to left back. He was quite good in Wales but then given a deeper role last night. Only when Cullen came on allowing him to go further up did he have an impact. Midfield was very flat / lateral from the start. Kenny's vision of success depends highly on advanced playmaker imho.
For now, I'd be inclined to persist with Collins. He has more presence in that part of the pitch than Idah. If we play 4312 then I think he'd be a useful foil for a more mobile, modern forward. That said, if Connolly, Parrott (who showed a bit of something last night I think), Idah, Robinson are all fit maybe the need for a strong centre forward diminishes.
Cullen simply does what a midfielder is supposed to do, and what Hourihane doesn't. Tets pointed out the lack of a DM in that starting XI. I wouldn't label it as "defensive" myself but the link between defence and further up is important. Cullen is ideal for this role and the signs were there from last year, before Kenny.
A lot has been written about Byrne already. It's my view he should have played far more and should have come on at HT at the latest. He and Cullen both really wanted the ball and Byrne always tried to be accretive. That's exactly what Kenny says he wants. For 70 mins last night, well especially all of the first half, our midfielders reverted to the midfield tendencies of previous managers. They lacked the courage to get on the ball and when they did they used it badly. The big notable improvement that Kenny brought to his early games was that midfielders were brave and looked for the ball in tight situations. There was no such bravery at all last night until Cullen and Byrne came on. It was said earlier that even teams like Luxembourg do this, which is why it's so frustrating that guys playing at a high level don't. Hendrick in fairness to him has shown willingness in all his games under Kenny so far.
If Kenny wants the team to play proper football, pick proper footballers.
I thought last night was drivel and it's sad when the only real lessons learnt are things that were already obvious and yet not corrected. This was Kenny's first meaningful failure to do the right things imho. The players were poor but it was within his gift to have gone another route from the start and to change things earlier and better, and I think he erred in many respects.
point taken but in context of comparing our strength in depth to Bulgaria's the point stands. He hasn't really been a club fixture yet anywhere in his career so his lack of game time might be a feature, and all I'm saying is that he's not a great endorsement of the claim our strength in depth is much better than theirs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
Can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I agree with ifk's post above except I think Horgan has that little bit of guile players with bigger reputations don't have.
Not really to be honest, thats why I asked. And those people are gone quiet on here now as I suspected. I think backstothewall summed it up pretty good, but I think there are probably a few more negatives, and a couple more positives if we scratched around. I think the reality has hit home that one performance doesn't make a summer, and if the manager isnt learning and/or adapting as he goes along then the same old failings will persist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Putting all our faith in players with 'potential' seems to be rather clutching at straws. I doubt if Idah and Connolly will score more than ten goals between them this season at their clubs (presuming they even get enough games in the first team). I suspect their careers will probably mostly play out at Championship level, possibly even dropping down to League One at some point - although I believe, on what we've seen so far, Connolly will do better than Idah.
I think you mean narrative there. Prerogative is the right of an individual. And it's spelt prerogative. With an "r"Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
What does that even mean "half the players missing had 80% of the caps", I'm guessing that the top seven players of the 14 that were unavailable had 80% of the caps total of the 14?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Proving what exactly?
Dara O'Shea is a huge positive for us going forward. He looked good at centre half, he looked okay at left back and I thought he looked excellent at right back. He clipped a few beautiful crosses into the box. He won't be right back for us in the future but he's a huge option beside John Egan at the back, particularly given his comfort on the ball. I think he has a huge future.
Jason Knight impressed me last night. He gives us the hustle and bustle and aggression that we need in midfield. Between McCarthy, Hendrick, Molumby, Cullen, Browne, Arter, Brady, Byrne and Knight we now have a lot of options at a fairly similar level. It's probably now about picking the right combination or a couple of players kicking on- there's a lot of potential in Knight, Molumby and Cullen to progress and who knows what Jack Byrne can achieve at this stage.
There's a case for McCarthy, Hendrick and Knight to start. I would also gladly see Molumby and Cullen in there. Hourihane should be nowhere near the team after his last few matches. He was dreadful last night. He didn't look at all fussed either- I refuse to believe he couldn't control that game if he wanted to and tried to.
Up front is a difficult one. Collins looked fine and served a purpose. He should have scored the header at the back post in the first half that went over. Horgan has definitely earned credit for his performances. However, he's probably occupying that middle ground above Maguire and Curtis but behind Connolly, Robinson, Long and maybe even McClean and O'Dowda.
Overall:
I think that O'Shea and Knight are the two to push themselves into starting contention;
Kenny clearly fancies Browne and, to a lesser extent, Horgan;
Idah has had a difficult role and struggled in it a lot- I think he needs a full season of club football before hanging our hat on him as a starter. Is it very rare for a number 9 to thrive in a front three? A lot of line leading 9's tend to struggle in their late teens and early 20's from my memory- Kane, Drogba and Giroud are three that come to mind as having struggled through spells at second tier French and English sides. I can see Callum Robinson occupying this spot for us.
i love Steven Reid but if you look at Scotland's actual results while he's been there they actually haven't been much good!Quote:
Originally Posted by MancIrishWolf
I agree with most of the rest. The actual XI you selected is open to debate. I am more positive about Hendrick's recent contributions than most here. I think he has shown Giles' "moral courage" at the very least.
I have virtually written off Qatar already, but remember that's "selfish and unpatriotic"!
I agree, its an idealist view really. One unfounded in reality. I do think though with all the players back, he will be much more sure of himself and what he needs come March. I just hope that he sees where its worth persisting(Idah is not that player, whether he will be is open to question) with his ways and where its not he changes. These games have clearly shown that we must pick our best players in their best positions, and the best players we have for certain positions. Make the glove fit, use the right formation that gets the best out of those available. This is what I would like to see but I'm 90% sure it wont happen
Randolph
Egan Duffy/Long Clark
Doherty/Coleman Stevens
McCarthy Molumby
Byrne/Hendrick
Robinson/Connolly Collins/Connolly
I've left it fairly open in a couple of positions, as I'm relatively happy and feel it could be changed/tweaked slightly or starting and finishing could be changed adapted based off who we are playing and how the game is going. I'd like that system for most of the pots up to 2nd(including).
Then when it comes to the big teams revert to a 4-5-1
Randolph
Doherty Egan Duffy/Long Stevens
Coleman Mccarthy Molumby Hendrick Connolly
Robinson
Paul, I'm going to need an answer on my above post, and on Stutt's post from the previous page.
You have one day.
The biggest negative under Kenny is the lack of goals. But we scored just 7 goals in the group qualification for the Euros - which included 4 games against Georgia and Gibraltar. To put it into perspective, Denmark and Switzerland scored 23 and 19 goals respectively in the same qualification group. Our goal scoring problems are not a Kenny issue but have been brewing under the radar.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Cast your mind back to the last Nations League campaign and the final game against Denmark, and argue if what you have seen under Kenny is an improvement or not on that.
Last night was bad but the changes Kenny is trying to implement are long over due and necessary.
Final tables in for the Nations League, so we've some sight of who we'll be playing in two years
One from each group of 4
Switzerland, Sweden,Bosnia, Iceland
Finland, Norway, Scotland, Russia
Slovenia, Montenegro, Albania, Armenia
So, 8-10 WC qualifiers, 2-3 friendlies, and 6 more NL games against the above teams. 16-20 games... and that's before the 2024 Euro qualifiers start
Apart from the fact it's a mental number of international games.. that really is loads of time for any manager to build a side and a plan to get to Germany in 2024
As of this morning, we are no 24 in UEFA rankings.. so we should be in a competition with 24 places
After an abject 4 years in my opinion.. not just one campaign
And the team that plays in those finals, should be radically different from the one now
And 4 in 9 games in the entire of 2018 don't forget. And 7 in 10 games in 2017.Quote:
Originally Posted by ifk101
And Robbie Keane retired in August 2016...
Now it's 12 hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Whats 12 hours exactly? You havent given a description of the task at hand? I need a bit more guidance
He certainly did not look fit and maybe even slightly overweight. I doubt he would ever make a fullback ~ ~ maybe a wingback but he needs to get fit and very fit for that position !Quote:
Originally Posted by Trequartista20
12 hours to answer my post aboveQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
and this post from the previous pageQuote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979I think you mean narrative there. Prerogative is the right of an individual. And it's spelt prerogative. With an "r"Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
What does that even mean "half the players missing had 80% of the caps", I'm guessing that the top seven players of the 14 that were unavailable had 80% of the caps total of the 14?
Proving what exactly?
Keep asking questions. See what happens.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88Can you?Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Now you have six hours.
Horgan looks like he could do with losing a few LBS as well. I would have thought that players playing even at his level would be more professional about diet and fitness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Perhaps these clubs are not as well organised as we think.
Posts on the manager moved to the Stephen Kenny thread, keep the discussion here on the game against Bulgaria
(this isn't aimed at anyone in particular, just easier to keep things on track)
About time someone put manners on him tets and appreciated. I've a pain in my face from listening to this outta him.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
Paul, the floor is yours.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
I always thought the american way was to spell it without the R, so just left it lazily. But yes i meant its the individual posters right to ignore the facts, as they choose.Quote:
I think you mean narrative there. Prerogative is the right of an individual. And it's spelt prerogative. With an "r"
Point i was trying to make was that the Bulgaria 11 that would take to the field against us was very inexperienced. So they had just as bad luck as us.Quote:
What does that even mean "half the players missing had 80% of the caps", I'm guessing that the top seven players of the 14 that were unavailable had 80% of the caps total of the 14?
Proving what exactly?
No I said I can't, stutts thanked the reply. I never came out with any nonsense about 2 years plans, throwing away wcs or building for the future or players coming through. Same way as I dont know about the retention of heat and energy in solar panels, so I amn't going to comment, I'd ask the question and expect a reply.Quote:
Can you?
The you should have written "ignore the facts, that's your prerogative", or "don't let the facts get in the way of the narrative". What you wrote made no sense.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
"half the missing players" could have referred to either the missing Irish or Bulgarian players, be less ambiguous in future.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
I don't see any thanks from him on your reply.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Funny, because as far as I recall the original claim in the post you thanked and the two posts you used to claim I was ignoring facts was that Bulgaria had had much worse luck than us (so we should win easily was the context).Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
So now we've had the same bad luck?
That was my recollection too. Paul - answer the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88