But at least the FAI dont schedule half the fixtures on a Monday night and clubs have regular home games at regular intervals throughout the seaso.... oh wait, sorry !! :(Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
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But at least the FAI dont schedule half the fixtures on a Monday night and clubs have regular home games at regular intervals throughout the seaso.... oh wait, sorry !! :(Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
This could also explain where my numbers went wrong and why they are so close to yours Nigel.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
said the dinosaur to Charles Darwin! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr A
This article rather sums up the barstooler paradox, except the author is actually aware of how ridiculous it is.
http://www.balls.ie/football/irratio....g7JAC7Zv.dpbs
Interesting piece. I used to support Leeds as a child. But it was essentially a 'childish' decision to support them (because they were big and successful at the time, and Johnny Giles played for them). The problem is, most people don't grow out of their childishness and make the more mature (and ultimately) rewarding decision to support a team which comes from their own community (or, indeed, country).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
I'm guessing that must be sarcasm. That perspective, along with half the piece, seems a tad incongruous with the other half considering the apparent self-awareness of the author. Then again, that's exactly what the author is getting at; human contradiction. Of which I'm probably guilty myself, as you'll see below...Quote:
Sometimes, magically, those men, hundreds of miles away, hear the needy howls roared through the televisions and they do something remarkable and that pre-teen is hooked.
I was the same with Manchester United; they were the successful side when I first became properly conscious of club football, with Roy Keane and Denis Irwin playing pivotal roles in their triumphs of the time. In fact, I still have a bedroom mat and clock back at home in Ireland from those days of youth that I never really bothered getting rid of. They do look very childish, mind, and I can't believe the clock's still ticking away on that same Energizer battery; the hour hand is always one off when I visit home though!Quote:
Originally Posted by Straightstory
Anyway, the League of Ireland never really entered my consciousness until a neighbour began taking me to Finn Harps games after the club's promotion to the Premier Division in the mid-90s. I lived just within the Donegal side of the border between Derry and Letterkenny, so the drive to games in Ballybofey took forty minutes and the facilities were remarkably quaint (to be polite), but I loved it; crowds were good and you just couldn't beat the atmosphere of live football. Later, going to school in Derry, I had Derry fans as classmates and the much-closer-to-home Brandywell fell under my radar. I think I'd always been aware of it during childhood - in fact, I might have associated it more with greyhound racing in my youthful semi-ignorance due to the fact I'd see the men out walking their dogs along the Letterkenny Road and my mother would often comment on it if we were driving past - but there was nothing to draw me towards the place until it became personally relevant in some way. I received torrents of good-natured sheep-shagging-related abuse from the Derry fans in school for admitting I supported Finn Harps whilst, from the other side of the fence, I received gentle ribbing from Finn Harps supporters for being a "city slicker" due to my going to school in Derry. In a way, I felt like a bit of an outsider on both sides. Over time, the neighbour stopped attending Finn Park and getting to Ballybofey proved a major obstacle. As a result, I developed a kind of schizophrenic sentimental attachment to both the north-west clubs. Maybe some would view it as "selling out", but Derry City became more of a relevance and I wanted to enjoy my experiences in the Brandywell whenever I attended rather than unnecessarily prolonging the role of outsider. I was still Donegal-born, but my social life revolved almost exclusively around Derry and there was live football five rather than forty minutes from me.
I can't say Manchester United's results mean anything to me any longer. I've lost any sentimental attachment I once had for them. Maybe that's odd considering what I've said in light of the fact I now live in Manchester... Perhaps, "I've grown out of it" would be a more appropriate way of describing it as it gradually dawned on me how harmful the trend of supporting foreign clubs is to Irish football.
I do, however, maintain that it can come across as a bit patronising to say things like: "The problem is, most people don't grow out of their childishness and make the more mature (and ultimately) rewarding decision to support a team which comes from their own community (or, indeed, country)."
If people wish to cherish childhood sentiment, that's their business. Humans are emotional beings, even if we like to think of ourselves as rational, and it would be patronising to think that we've never made a decision or upheld a personal tradition based on what you dismiss as "childishness". You perceive it as more mature and rewarding for you personally to support a team from your own community; others don't share your perspective. That is life. Whether you can get your head around it or not, they get their kicks out of other things that have value for them. If we want people to engage with the League of Ireland, it's about making it an attractive proposition and winning them over. No point getting haughty and accusing non-supporters of childish immaturity. That doesn't appeal to anyone outside of a clique.
Gave it a thanks..even though you're a turncoat. Good piece.
Hypothetical but still......
Do you think a one city Dublin team could compete in the EPL?
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2056847539
Haha 50-60,000 supporters indeed. As if Dublin people would even understand the concept of attending a football match more than twice a year.
1 million people, 19 games, so if each of them attended 2 games a year, 2 million people through the turnstiles, that's 105,263 a game. It would be the best supported team in the league and win everything because the Irish are the best fans in the world (TM)
I think they would have packed the stadium out for Manyoo, City, Liverpool, Arsenal and Chelsea. Most of them probably cheering for the away team. Probably decent enough attendances for "flavour of the month" clubs, say if Spurs, Newcastle or Everton were having a decent run. Less than 10,000 home supporters for Wigan, Stoke, and Southampton. And of course you'd have needed instant success. You'd probably have had sub-LOI standard crowds for the days in League 1, maybe 10,000 for big Championship games. It would take a hell of a lot to tear barstoolers away from the success they've become addicted to.
Wow, all those replies to a thread on boards... and I agreed with them.
I must be ill.
Lots of good points. However, I was never 'haughty'. (And perhaps 'child-like' would be a better term to use rather than 'childish'). I was merely reflecting on my own experience and seeking out reasons for people 'supporting' teams outside their own country. I think it's a valid argument.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
And frankly, as a League of Ireland supporter, I do actually fell like I'm part of a clique.
Cliques are founded and sustained on notions of exclusivity. It might cause a few people to feel a bit less unique or special, but an inclusive attitude is the way forward surely?
I don't think it means we feel as part of a clique on purpose to feel unique or special. Maybe as a member of a minority it feels "special" for us lo(i)st souls? And not a good special, a kind of sacristy special...Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
Imagine how that black, Jewish, woman in a wheelchair feels at Drom...
I think a lot of LoI fandom appears cliquey to those who don't support Irish clubs, but isn't really, for the most part.
DI, your clock is just set on Fergietime. No need to adjust it, just enjoy the extra hour every day.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
As to the rest I've selected: too true! Though I've never personally experienced an LoI clique, mind you, and have always had a good time at a game (results and perfomances excepted!) Maybe it's a perception thing: where the outsider sees a clique, the insider sees a group. A bit like NFB says, I suppose.
it was a Sligo Rovers fan who gave me the most basic but compelling reason for going to an LOI game: if you like football, just pick a game and go.
I have to agree with Charlie Darwin most Irish people don't have football in them, but I am surprised that a lot of posters here remember an introduction to the LOI, most I know can't remember a time without it.
It really does depend on where you're from. I grew up in Patsland and I was in my mid-20s before I seriously went to LOI games. Now I can't remember what it was like without it.Quote:
Originally Posted by redarmyfaction
Sunday in the, 70's was doss mass, home for Tarzan, the Ron Ely TV show followed by an LWT production presented by Brian Moore, the Big match during dinner, then skirt down to make sure you had enough time to Duke into the Showgies before KO.
Relieved to hear you took your skirt down before heading into the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by redarmyfaction
Hard to climb over the wall wearing one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie Darwin
Brilliant. Exactly the same for me except it was Milltown.Quote:
Originally Posted by redarmyfaction
Great days indeed, but remember you boys would have missed most of 'The Big Match' from Nov to Feb as you kicked off at 2.15
I used to love the 80's Sunday Sport radio show on rte for the away games, especially during the winter, fire on............''and now we go back to the Markets Field, there's been another goal Gabriel, which way did it go...................
Happy times,, then MTUSA ruined it all.
I remember that a hape of lads who got banned from the Showgies for being hooligans (shamrock take note) used to have to watch games from the roof of the now demolished engine shed the far side of the Strandhill road. It must have a tricky climb up, specially wearing a pair of white parallels.
Ron Ely is still on the go, I had a half time pint with him in Mooneys the last time Shels were down, he said Paddy kavanagh was the biggest mink going and he would rather wrestle a million crocodiles or lions than mark the wee c##t.
Exactly.Quote:
Originally Posted by BonnieShels
Most Irish people don't have regular attendance in them, across all sports, not just football. Look how Munsters crowds have gone now they're not quite as good as they were (but aren't actually really crap either). You don't meet too many Lunsters anymore. GAA hypes it's crowds, but the reality is even for the All Ireland winners, it's a handful of large attendances over a year. Actually you could probably apply it to music too - not interested in going to see bands play their own tunes in pubs - cover bands dominate. But as soon as a band gets labelled the next big thing they're selling out the Olympia as people hop on the bandwagon. We're a nation of event junkies.Quote:
Originally Posted by redarmyfaction
Welcome back sir.
I agree with you completely, but is it just an Irish thing or are we more aware of or sensitive to the indifference of Irish event junkies because we're Irish and feel that it impacts negatively upon Irish football in the sense of missed potential? What are the roots of Irish event junkie-ism?Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
A deep-seated sense of desire to be part of the "crowd".
But that's a desire shared universally rather than a peculiarly Irish one. Why is event junkie-ism such an Irish phenomenon?
No sporting code has managed to maintain crowds over a long season over the long term (too early to tell how rugby will manage this, especially if the H-cup goes belly up). I think we stand alone as to how crap we are at supporting teams over an entire season.Quote:
Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
I like to blame the GAA as much as possible, so I will do again - structuring "championships" as knock out competitions at club and inter county level has embedded this culture. It makes every match an "event" as it could be the last match of the year.
The Irish are not alone as event junkies, many nations can claim this winning title, and a finger can be pointed at the product. In Germany you have sports supported at all levels, why? Because of community? Presentation? Facilities? Probably all of this.
I disagree Macy at pointing out the GAA, because at club level you will get regular crowds turning up out of tribalism, community and the craic, plus they know lads playing and want to see them scelp or be scelped.
But then it boils down to spectacle, comfort and value for money. If you walk into a ground that's fit for demolition, pay over the odds and watch something that can only loosely be called football/rugby/GAA, then you'll realise that you're not valued, respected and that you'd be better off spending 3 hours and 20quid some place else - like watching X Factor with a dozen bottles from Lidl.
All sports are suffering, especially when what people get doesn't match what they paid.
We get regular crowds too. But for clubs and counties, compare league attendances with championship games - they get the crowds out a handful of times a year in reality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Spudulika
Go further down in the chain yet Macy. I've seen GAA club league games with bigger attendances than LOI matches.Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
Second what Nigel says, grassroots GAA is very well attended. 3 years ago I was down watching a match between Donaghmoyne and someone else in the Monaghan league, more than 600 there (paying in) in what amounted to a match between a couple of townlands. In November I was at an LSL match in Rathcoole with half a dozen people watching.
In the past I did regularly attend club league games, of the then county champions. They would've been on a par with first division attendances.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
However, my main point is not the absolute figure, it's the comparison with the latter stages and championship games I was getting at. If you know GAA clubs that get as good as attendances for the early stages of the league as they do for the knock out stages of the championship, I would suggest that's the exception rather than the rule. The GAA have to run double headers, play them at night, and turn the nights into pop concerts to fill Croke Park for national league games. If any of those teams make the All Ireland Final later in the year, the media the week before will be all about all the "real" fans missing out on tickets and how it's not fair. They have the same problems of us, when it comes to consistently getting the crowd in - it's just hidden by bigger attendances later in the summer that boost averages, at both club and county level.
Rugby is the only sport pulling in decent crowds week in, week out. But then we've some of the top teams in Europe, and whether that lasts is a different matter (with the aforementioned drop off now Munster are only good, rather than really good). I remember when Basketball and Ice Hockey could fill the Manchester Arena - it last a couple of years and then both teams went belly up.
What is an acceptable attendance week-in week-out at LOI games?Quote:
Originally Posted by Macy
At the end of the day this is an island of around 6million people We can compare with the EPL and Championship and the Bundesliga all we want and it will; prove nowt. Laying into the GAA for having a surge at the end of their season is also not proving anything.
I think when you look at the attendances for Italian and Spanish football (outside of the Big-two) you realise that the phenomenon may not be uniquely Irish. We just notice it due to the fact we live here.
Soom good honest stuff from GAA fans here on the problems they're having selling the game
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2056849975
I post their view as some here are clearly biased against the GAA (like me)
I've read that before. There's some good things in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dodge
I think though, despite its flaws, the GAA is far and away ahead of the FAI when it comes to marketing their product, despite it being haphazard sometimes. Though it does help having the Dublin football team to market.
Macy, rugby at club level almost went completely out of business after the provinces came in, as recently as 2006/7 Connacht were struggling to get crowds in and were being actively blocked by Galway City/County Council. GAA and rugby have willingness to use political nous as well as getting into primary schools, plus there is the link between juvenile and adult codes which sees kids aspire to play Junior/Intermediate/Senior. In the LOI how many clubs have properly structured age groups down to under-9? With proper coaching, assistance from a central body and a very active club body? Even in "non-league" Irish football we don't have it regularly.
I can speak from experience of leagues on the continent pulling in tiny crowds - Russia for one - despite large urban communities. The blame cannot be put on those not attending matches, but on the clubs and governing bodies. And the media contribute to negativity but they have to fill space.