Yet another rubbish story from caughtoffside:
http://www.caughtoffside.com/2010/11...rs-youngsters/
"Ferguson is said to be an admirer of the England Under 21 pair"
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Yet another rubbish story from caughtoffside:
http://www.caughtoffside.com/2010/11...rs-youngsters/
"Ferguson is said to be an admirer of the England Under 21 pair"
That is what I meant, yes!Quote:
Originally Posted by kennedmc
Really hope Clark avoids the notorious injury curse that has affected some of our brightest young prospects in recent years. Best of luck for the season CC and look forward to seeing you in the green soon.
Scouting report:
http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/footba...27918/23266980
Just got assist for Villa's equaliser V Birmingham. Dunne gave away penalty with challenge on Bowyer earlier in game.
"Salt into the Blues' wounds. Birmingham nemesis Gabriel Agbonlahor gets an inch of space in the box from Ciaran Clark's pass, he spins and lashes into the far corner. That's his third goal in three games at St Andrews." (BBC Sport)
Dunne has been horrendous. I thought it was Young who set up the goal, but need to see it again. (Watching on a shoddy quality stream)
EDIT: Sky says Hogg with the assist, so no idea.
Looks like the professionals are also getting mixed up with all the Villa youngsters (and not just myself)!Quote:
Originally Posted by AlaskaFox
Was interested to hear Traps comments on Ciaran Clark during the week on Off the Ball. He was asked what he thought of CC's performance against Arsenal and he said he'd seen the goals he'd scored but then he blatantly sneared at the idea that he is a midfielder, adding that anyone who had seen Barca v Real Madrid would have seen what midfielders are supposed to be. This is coming from the man who has based his whole Irish tenure on picking midfielders who CAN'T pass the ball.
He's basically slagging of a guy who has just declared for us. If Gerard Houllier, who see's him train every day thinks he is worth putting in the middle than i'm willing to trust his judgement.
Lest not forget this was against Arsenal who will make alot of midfields look like passangers. If someone had been watching Real Madrid against Barca for the first time on Monday they would come to the conclusion that Xabi Alonso isn't a midfielder.
Trap should get over to see him in the flesh a bit more often, other than when Sky Sports show Villa before passing comment.
i... must.... resist... the... Trap... bashing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LFCSixty/Eighty
Wait there will be lads on here who will defend Our Leader, Il Trap.
Trap reminds me of a "told you so guy", or the guy from the ewoks, who says something is a crap idea, unless he comes up with the idea. It appears that unless he sees the guy first, picks him and brings him through then he is a player. If the media/fans/whoever are pressing for a player, he ignores it, as though he doesn't want to seem swayed by anyone but himself. Its all very "my toys" really.
thats exactly my problem with him POS.
Ego!!!
I don't really care about his personality, I just want him to win more matches.
Clark would be a decent option for us in midfield but at this point in his career he hasn't really done anything to suggest he'd be more useful than Whelan or Green, aerial ability notwithstanding.
Trap is a numpty. Talking about the Barcelona midfield bein what midfielders should be yet he insists on picking Paul Green. Jesus wept.
and on top of that he has convinced a lot of otherwise intelligent people that no one else can do the job that Green can.Quote:
Originally Posted by kev mcq
well maybe they are not that intelligent...but id take that on the whole trap selection not necessarily green, because i did actually think he id ok for the 27mins he was on against slovakia.Quote:
Originally Posted by SkStu
Paul, you are one man captcha generator.
Paul Green is the Irish granny Xavi though, its a fact.Quote:
Originally Posted by kev mcq
Having a midfielder like Clark is fine when like Villa we have a couple of wingers.......its not like we're offering any creative threat through the middle now anyway so having a pure holding player wouldnt lose us anything. He's looked a lot more solid in midfield than he looked at the back anyway.
Care to elaborate? I've watched Clark extensively, and he appears eminently more comfortable at CB than CM. He doesn't really stamp his authority in midfield at all (two Arsenal goals excepted, and in that game he wasn't exactly dominant in open play). Was totally anonymous against Birmingham in midweek as well. His performances at CB have largely been far more impressive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrock
Slagging? What sort of thin skinned part of the Limerick do you come from? Besides I wouldn't take Houllier's word on anything given how poorly Villa are playing. Plus most observers on Villa's main fan forum (Villa Talk) would put Clark back at CB, partly because Dunne going through one of his rubbish patches, but mostly because it's where he seems more comfortable. Just because he's an option at midfield doesn't mean he should actual be picked at CM. See O'Shea for reference.Quote:
Originally Posted by LFCSixty/Eighty
Well they briefly experimented with with him at CB at the start of the season, which pretty much ended with a serious humping by Newcastle in which he had a horrendous time, and I can only recall him starting there once since I think. He's playing where he is at the moment to break up play and get the ball to Downing and Young as thats Villa's game plan and he can do the same for us, with maybe Gibson alongside him as more of a playmaker. Given the sparcity of alternative options seems as good a gameplan as any.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Gotta say that sums up my feelings about the man. Really frustrated with his attitude. "Trap, swallow your pride occasionally, it's non-fattening"Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
Experimented? You do realise he's played CB all his life? Not to mention when he made his senior debut at CB against Fulham, at the start of last season.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrock
No. This season Clark has started at CB five times (and came on at CB for 80 minutes against Chelsea) and has started at CM four times (coming off the bench against Fulham). Since that Newcastle 'humping', he's started at CB twice (as well as 80 mins against Chelsea game).Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrock
Bottom line is this - Clark playing in midfield has nothing at all to do with form or tactics and everything to do with necessity. Villa have four senior CM's missing and he's playing there as an emergency CM. Incidentally this emergency is why Villa are also playing a 4'3' Scottish hobbit and a reserve no-hoper in midfield. And it's why they've signed a geriatric Frenchman with the pace of a tyreless bicycle...Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrock
Anyway since his debut at midfield, Reo Coker and Sidwell have both been chosen instead of Clark when fit. Hardly suggests Houllier really thinks he's a viable option beyond a stop gap.
Anyone who's seen him play much would likely agree.His performances at CM have been patchy. His positioning is poor, and he struggles to do just what you suggest he's there to do (break up play). Right now I'm putting this down to inexperience, his postitioning and reading of the game will improve if he's gets more time at CM. And on the plus side, he's very composed on the ball. But his CB performances have been so assured I wouldn't see the point on keeping him there when Villa's midfield returns to fitness.
Things might change. But right now he deserves a call-up based largely on his CB performances which have been far more consistent and impressive imo.
Call me old fashioned but I like to select people on form and merit. If the only argument for playing Clark at midfield is because he can play in midfield then it's hardly worth debating. O'Shea and Killer can play centre mid as well but that doesn't mean they should.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrock
If you cant get in the Villa defence ahead of James Collins who is responsible directly for 60% of the goals Wales concede (and thats a lot) and looks an accident waiting to happen for Villa it doesnt tend to suggest either O'Neil or Houllier rate his centreback skills as highly as you. Are you watching the Liverpool game? If I've learnt one thing from watching Clark's performances this season, its that he seems a lot more proficient attacking the opponent's penalty box than he is defending his own. I'll keep an open mind on the lad as its still early days but being a midfielder of limited capacaties still puts him ahead on merit of members of our national squad with no capacities at all that seem to disappear in to the black hole in the middle of the pitch throughout Trap's tenure.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Subbed off at half-time today. I didn't see the game, but any time I have seen him he hasn't looked anything great yet. It is great to see a young Irish guy in an EPL starting XI but I don't think that necessarily means he should be fast tracked in to the Irish XI.
Clarke is left-sided so he'd mainly be competing with Dunne for a shirt, unless Dunne were to move across to his less-favoured side. It could work but then again it might not, and Collins is a quality players whose form has just dipped at the moment, just like our Richard.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrock
Clark played OK today and I thought he was a little unlucky to get hooked. Hogg was probably Villa's only good performer on the day so it's understandable.
He looked a bit lost against Liverpool. Lucas and Meireles were running the show in midfield and neither Clark or Hogg could get anywhere near them for much of the game and didn't get much help from Ireland either. Don't think he's going to be a central midfielder in the long run anyway.
It's hard for a young player to settle in to a losing team. Early days.
Wonder where the "O'Neill out!" Villa fans are now?
I thought he was better than most games, and he was miles ahead of Ireland performance-wise. He shouldn't have been taken off at half-time. Picked up yet another stupid booking though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jicked
Don't know what Collins' performances for Wales have to do with anything. Anyway the only argument you're making is that Clark can't displace two international standard, experienced defenders who both had very fine seasons last year and are currently playing terribly. Personally I'd have Clark over either of them, but if Houllier (who I don't particularly rate) really wants to stick with them it's fair enough given their experience and past performances.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrock
Your argument also ignores the key point I was making - Clark is a CB by trade and his performances there have been better. He was totally bypassed last night and outshone by Hogg, a player who isn't much cop but is actually a midfielder.
I'm not having a go at him cos I think he's great - I just think if anyone's really advocating him for midfield, then they haven't really seen him play.
No one's really having a go at him, it's about where he's best employed. Having watched him extensively, it's hands down centre half for me. He settled in there very well at the start of the season.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Great points Swan, I tend to agree. I'm excited that we've got Clark now, but not entirely sure midfield is his position. As you say, looked a bit lost against Liverpool for large chunks of time. Definitely looked like a centre-half playing in midfield rather than a natural midfielder.
In Clark's case I don't think we should care, as he wouldn't have received the amount of opportunities he has had, if O'Neill had still been in charge.Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
In fairness I don't think that's strictly true. O'Neill gave Clark his debut last season and kept him in the squad ahead of Curtis Davies. And Clark would surely been heavily involved this season no matter who was in charge due to Villa's injury problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
It's not really relevant to Clark but I'm with OwlsFan - Houllier's reaching O'Leary levels of popularity with Villa fans in record time.
He only played once all season though. What's a mystery to me is why they consistently leave Carlos Cuellar - a defender of some real class- out of the team and keep on playing a donkey like Ginge Collins. Ultimatley Villa are a squad that has suffered for lack of investment as well as dubious transfer decisions (getting rid of Cahill and Whittingham and wasting most their transfer budget on Curtis Davies) and that catches up on you after a while.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
Whilst perhaps not strictly true, it is mostly true. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
He only played once because Dunne and Collins were really excellent last year, which makes their current form all the more baffling. I'm with you on Cuellar as are most Villa fans, but like I said Collins really did play well last season (much to my surprise as well). He can play a bit but him and Dunne are well out of it so far this season. Also Villa's problems go way beyond letting an Championship level midfielder (Whittingham) and signing a promising, if occasionally ropey, centre half. ;) I actually think Davies could yet turn into a top notch centre half.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrock
Ok I'll rephrase - it's not really true at all. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
Fly, you write more sense when you just provide a link :D
Forgive me for being pedantic, but, 'not really true at all' is not an alternate version of 'not strictly true'.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
;)
In all seriousness though, I sincerely doubt that Clark, Bannan, Hogg etc.. would have received the amount of first-team opportunities that they have, had Martin O'Neill still been in charge. O'Neill has always played his favourites and was never really known for giving youth a chance.Quote:
Originally Posted by geysir
I think Whittingham's a Premiership quality player though just playing a division below his right level, much like Nolan last season. He's certainly be an asset for Villa now. The thing with O'Neil is he makes a big thing of signing English players, even if they are somewhat mediocre like Davies, Knight, Shorey and Harewood but then english players who come through their youth ranks have to go elsewhere to get an opportunity. I honestly think O'Neil would have found a way to get round having to use Clark, Hogg and even Albrighton as starters in their team as he is a little too conservative that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton
They seem to actually have a few Irish players in their youth squad now so hopefully they turn out a little better than Steven Foley and that Fahey guy they used to have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
Fair points and it really depends where you fall down on the MON debate. He definitely had his 'favourites' but he signed some decent players and moulded them into a highly competitive side.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adrock
Meanwhile this season has seen the emergence of younger players but we're struggling. It's a difficult question to even out. I'd like to think, particularly given the injuries this year, O'Neill would've turned to Albrighton and Clark, although he definitely didn't seem to rate Bannan.
Anyway it's must win this weekend for Villa and it'll be interesting to see what happens to Clark. There's a lot of support for recalling Cuellar and pairing him with Clark at CB, particularly with Ashley Young and possibly Bannan returning to midfield.
Just nodded in at the far post to make it 3-3 in the Chelsea - Villa game