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His first full season wasn't until 2002/2003 - AFTER the World Cup. He only played a handful of games in 2001/2002, check soccerbase.com if you don't believe me.Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
Why should a player who had 1 international cap (as a sub, for about 10 minutes, and he gave away a penalty) and 14 starts that season be brought to the world cup??
Because if he's a better option than some others he should have been brought, irrespective of age or experience, and he was certainly a better option at that particular time than Harte (subsequently, sadly, proven), and Staunton.Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
In fairness though he'd not had as much of a chance to f*ck up in an Ireland top by that stage. Where as Harte...Quote:
Originally Posted by joeSoap
I'm no United fan but would love O'Shea to do well. Thought he was v average the other night, lacking in ideas, kept playing Duff into trouble, passing to him when he was on the touchline with 3 men around him. But I guess O'Shea wasn't the only one doing that the other night.
It's true, I've never seen him play exceptionally well for us, though for Man Utd he's had a few cracking games (and I'm no Man U supporter). That said, just because his performances don't stand out a mile every time doesn't mean he's a failure, he's a good LB and could make a very good CM. I would say he's a success, though perhaps more was expected from him.
Oh, and he didn't deserve to be brought to the WC at the time, too young and raw.
Lads I have nothing against Irish players playing for United so it's wrong to state that's the reason I think he's crap. In all honesty O'Shea had one good season for Utd when he first appeared on the scene and has been poor ever since.
Anyway it's not his Utd form that influences me its his form (or lack of) for Ireland. He has never been better than average for us but has on numerous occasions been exceptionally dodgy.
As for Keane knowing more about football than us I'd agree that he does but we've all seen O'Shea playing in the Ireland games and I don't think anyone can state that he's ever been particularly good.
Good shout NMcD.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilMcD
I am not a JOS fan but it is nothing to do with the club he plays for. However, while he continues to play for MU, he seems content to play an 'understudy' role, which is his choice. I believe this adversely affects his game for Ireland as he is not getting regular playing time in one position or another.
Is he a defender or a midfielder? I think neither, I think Ferguson is happy to use him as a utility player. We do not have the luxury of being able to accommodate such a player on the basis that he has looked good in the odd game. If we had a left full back playing regular EPL, JOS would not get a look in at that position and we have a number of better out and out midfield players that him. Similarly we have several better centre backs than him.
I am only interested in how he performs for Ireland and so far what I have seen has been generally disappointing. I am not sure whether BK is just accomodating him by including him or picking him because he is the best player available in the position for which he is picked.
The same people are probably calling for the likes of Mc Geady and Elliott to get starts in competitive games in the World Cup.
JOSh was a very promising player back then and he was on brilliant form. There isnt much subsitute for a player who is in great form. Hearte had a nightmare of a WC. Mc Carthy probably knew that things werent going right for him but played him anyway. What kind of management was that ?
When O'Shea first went to MU, it was not long before he was loaned out to Royal Antwerp. In the season before the WC finals he made 9 league appearances and 3 CL appearances. He had made 1 international appearance for 6 minutes as a sub, when he gave away a penalty against Croatia. Hardly form that set the world on fire.Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
His 'really good season' was the season after the WC finals in 2002/03 and when he did come into the Irish team he was ordinary at best.
Dont confuse facts with passion!
Finally, agree Roy Keane does know more that I ever will about football. (despite the fact I went to Japan/Korea in 2002 and he didnt!) and if I am an idiot, notihng you, I or anyone else can do about it!
As I have posted several times previously, I want to see JOS do well for Ireland, but he is a long way short of the 'real deal' and, in the opinion of this 'idiot' the longer he stays at MU, playing the role he does, he is unlikely ever to be.
Guess he thought it better to play the experienced player with an outstanding talent (ie: set pieces, tho didnt work out against the Spanish :( ) rather than the promising youngster. Can't say I blame him.
He always does that & his unease in tight situations is really noticable from my seat, 6 rows from the pitch. That's the problem with having a right footer at left back. But he's solid enough defending.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hither green
The right footer at leftback makes Opta team of the week (15th Aug). :D
http://skysports.planetfootball.com/...=football_home
John O'Shea
• Born: 30 April 1981, Waterford, Ireland
• Signed: Youth
• Fee: N/A
• Other Previous Clubs: N/A
• Debut: 31 Oct 1999 v Aston Villa (League Cup)
John signed professional terms with United in August 1998 and made his first team debut just over a year later, away to Aston Villa in a Worthington Cup defeat.
After making twenty appearances and scoring two goals for the Reserves over the 1998/99 and 1999/2000 seasons, John joined Second Division Bournemouth on loan in January 2000, where he earned rave reviews.
O'Shea returned to Old Trafford in March 2000, determined to break into the first team. Despite two more appearances in the Worthington Cup, away at Watford and Sunderland, it didn't quite happen for the big man, so instead he embarked on another loan spell in season 2000/01.
This time he followed in the footsteps of Luke Chadwick, Danny Higginbotham and Ronnie Wallwork by joining Royal Antwerp. Although he was first choice central defender for United's partner club in Belgium, he still found time to play international football for the Republic at Under-21 level.
John stepped up to earn his first senior cap on 15 August 2001, when he came on as an 84th minute substitute at home to Croatia. Unfortunately, the debut ended in disappointment when John gave away a penalty in injury time, enabling the visitors to make the score 2-2.
Sheasy really made his mark on the United first team in the 2002/03 season, proving his versatility by playing at left-back, right-back, centre-back and central midfield during the Reds' successful Premiership campaign. His forays down the flanks - always accompanied by nut-megs on opponents, including Real Madrid's Luis Figo - saw the birth of a new fans' chant - "When Johnny goes running down the wing, O'Shea, O'Shea."
John ended up with 32 Premiership appearances in 2002/03, at the end of which he picked up the first medal of his senior Reds career.
The versatility which had glossed John's superb debut season served only to hamper his first-team claims in a difficult 2003/04 campaign for the big Irishman.
Without a specialist position to stake a claim for, O'Shea filled in gaps wherever he could, only to find himself sidelined as soon as injuries in others healed up.
While he is yet to pin down a position to call his own in the first team, John has found the net five times since August 2003, including a stunning chip in the 4-2 win at Highbury in February 2005.
Actually, thinking about it...the simple fact that we're spending this much time talking about him, coupled with a £25,000 a week salary makes him pretty much a success, doesn't it?? :ball:
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeSoap
Thanks for this joeSoap. My memory is not a short as someone thought! :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
Mick mc carthy should have brought him to the WC. Mick wouldnt know much about spotting players though :rolleyes:
Jaysus JR, did Mick kill your hamster or something?Quote:
Originally Posted by thejollyrodger
Given, Robbie, Duffer, Dunne, Healy & S.Reid are among those young players who got their international careers off to a good start under Mick. At club level he spent modest amounts of money very well in my opinion, including on players like Stephen Elliott.
I think Mick was too loyal to some people in picking his original world cup squad but the peripheral players wouldn't have got a look in anyway. He could have taken O'Shea but it's hardly the biggest mistake he made summer 2002, if it even was a mistake of course :).
At the risk of bringing some sanity to this thread riddle me this :
If you saw OShea at 18/19 and someone told you that in 5 years time he would be the starting central midfielder for Manchester United (which he is, 3 games gone and started all three) - would you consider that as failure ??
The guy is a central midfielder in the making , another season in there with RK could be the making of him, how many starts in this position has he actually had ?.
He is too relaxed on the ball for a left back but he has another 10 years in front of him- this is the season that JOS will or wont realise his potential.
Maybe I'm giving Mick too much credit. I just read this:
Sunderland signed midfielder Christian Bassila from Strasbourg on a two-year contract. ``He plays it simple, handles the ball well and breaks things up,'' Sunderland manager Mick McCarthy told the club's Web site.
Maybe Lee Carsley was acting under Mick's orders in the Turkey play-off, home leg.
very good...
Yes. I never rated Mick, his ugly formations with duff up front, his tatical naievity (spell?) and sending our best player home from the world cup (no matter what he called him) and leaving another top player back in waterford watching all the games on the telly in the pub while our left back was having a world cup nightmare. I posted before Mick is a grafter and belongs somewhere between the division 1 and the EPL. He will never amount to anything, just pushing for promotion or fighting relegation.Quote:
Jaysus JR, did Mick kill your hamster or something?