Dublin City Fold

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20/07/2006, 11:21 AM
bohs til i die

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passive

Why were they given a licence to play in the top flight despite being in financial chaos? Why was their reckless trading allowed to continue unchecked?

This from a Hoop.

Now before you start waffling about how Rovers are NOW run properly, Rovers had debts over �2,000,000. They obtained a licence with false accounts and stiffed creditors in the same way Dublin City are.
20/07/2006, 11:22 AM
Block G Raptor

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raheny Red

Bohemian Football Club

Over My Dead Body and a fair few others I'd imagine
20/07/2006, 11:27 AM
KildareFan

Quote:

Why were they given a licence to play in the top flight despite being in financial chaos? Why was their reckless trading allowed to continue unchecked?

Unbeliveable that a Rovers fan could even ask that question :confused:
20/07/2006, 11:31 AM
Raheny Red

What will happen regarding their cup game, will Monaghan get reinstated or Killester get a bye :confused:
20/07/2006, 11:32 AM
Redzer

I'm delighted Continuity HF has been de-commissioned.
Peace on this island at last. Rocky should now face a war crimes for all the torture he made us endure.
20/07/2006, 11:33 AM
BohsPartisan

Why unbelievable. They were always a deluded bunch...
(come to think of it maybe all EL fans are :( )
20/07/2006, 11:40 AM
monutdfc

Quote:

Originally Posted by KildareFan

I think it's a real pity about dublin city and rocky is a huge loss to the league.

What would be better, to have a bit of ambition and try to bring a bit of success to your club? or drift along just happy to surive the way that the likes of monagahan and kildare do?

If other clubs throughout the league had half the ambition that Rocky did, the league would be a far better place.

As far as i can see, the only person seriously out of pocket because of this is rocky himself. The players were never stuck for their wages and the likes of rovers and shels should take note of this.

It appears that by virtue of owning a house in Dublin before the dramatic rise in property prices of recent years, Rocky was able to re-mortgage and plough, I don't know, say, 200k per annum of money borrowed on the back of his house into the club. When that resource couldn't be leveraged any more the end was inevitable.
You might call that ambition, I call it stupidity. If Kildare or Monaghan overspent by 200k per annum we too would be in the fight for promotion, but the end would be the same.
20/07/2006, 11:44 AM
KildareFan

Quote:

If Kildare or Monaghan overspent by 200k per annum we too would be in the fight for promotion, but the end would be the same.

I can't really speak for monaghan so probably shouldn't have said them. But from what i know of Kildare, they are just happy to drift along. If they are still around in 20 years, they will probably be in the same ground playing in front of the same 100 people just glad to be still in the league. At least dublin gave it a go and tried to be the best they could. Fair enough they failed in the end but as the saying goes "better to have tried and failed than to have never tried at all"
20/07/2006, 11:49 AM
bigmac

Quote:

Originally Posted by northside hoop

You're making the assumption that we think we were entitled to one the year before.

More along the lines of saying that Rovers fans have seen first hand how a team in a worse situation than DC were handed a licence without any problems at all so why be surprised that they got one? After all, they appear to have very few debts knocking around so what would be the grounds for denying them a licence?
20/07/2006, 11:52 AM
LFC in Exile

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passive

Aside from inter-club rivalry, this entire debacle should raise serious questions in Merrion Square. Why were these jokers ever allowed into the league? Why were they given a licence to play in the top flight despite being in financial chaos? Why was their reckless trading allowed to continue unchecked?

They don't even get it. :) Rovers fans are so funny - they are completely in denial. Can you imagine if Rovers were prevented from playing in the top flight when their previous administration's financial recklessness was shown up. Rovers were the classic textbook case of living beyond means and dodgy dealings and were allowed to get away with it for years. They have no credibility in slagging off the FAI, eL or other clubs for living beyond their means. They were saved by their fans - but even that was only possible because Revenue wiped out their debt - so far play to Rovers fans for doing that. I admire them completely for it. DC couldn't do it obviously (they were bankrolled by one fan).

My own club have also come within a whisker of folding, but Limerick fans have not forgotten and so can empathise with DC and Rovers fans.
20/07/2006, 11:57 AM
WeAreRovers

Quote:

Originally Posted by KildareFan

Unbeliveable that a Rovers fan could even ask that question :confused:

You seem to forget that the people now running Shamrock Rovers (ie the fans) were the ones to point out the licencing irregularities and financial mess to the FAI in the first place. The FAI's response? Nada, zilch, nothing.

Months later they spotted it and the arbitrary 8 point deduction was imposed. Then Dublin City are given a licence without any questions being asked about their forward planning and budgeting for 2006.

Balls to all this "poor fans" nonsense. They had no fans, no past and no future. They were a stain on our league and thank Christ they're gone.

KOH
20/07/2006, 12:34 PM
Dodge

Quote:

Originally Posted by KildareFan

If other clubs throughout the league had half the ambition that Rocky did, the league would be a far better place.

I' guess most clubs have ambitions to be in the champions league every year. The other things most clubs have is some sense of reality
20/07/2006, 12:34 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by KildareFan

Fair enough they failed in the end but as the saying goes "better to have tried and failed than to have never tried at all"

The fundamental difference with Dublin City and that quote is that their 'try' was pure delusion.

I might fancy myself to be the fastest 100m sprinter on earth. I could spend every day of my life training profusely, destroying my personal finances, neglecting my friendships and personal relationships etc. And then, at some inevitable point, I'd realise that I never will be the fastest man on earth. Reality would set in, the dream would be over, and I'd be destroyed. Could I then just throw my hands in the air and say 'ah well - sure i tried' or should I not accept that I was deluded in the first place. That's not to say that some people shouldn't strive to be the fastest person on earth - but the key ingredient that i lack (and indeed Dublin city) is the potential to be that in the first place. As the phrase goes, you can't polish a turd.

I'm not saying that most clubs should'nt strive for success. The likes of Longford have shown what can be done in Ireland with unfashionable clubs in small urban areas. But Dublin City's circumstances were dramatically different than every other club in the league. They were a makey-uppy club with no fans, no ground, no history and therefore no chance of quickly making the huge strides that Seery sought.

Seery tried to do too much too soon, and that is why he was doomed to failure. If Longford had spent a fortune in the 1980's seeking success, they'd probably have folded as well. Rocky should've done what every other small football club has to do - build up slowly over time. But no - his dream couldn't wait. That is why cliches of 'ah sure, at least he tried' don't wash here. He was downright reckless and delusional. He was always going to fail with that 'get rich quick' mind-set, and as a result he was simply wrong to try it.
20/07/2006, 12:35 PM
GavinZac

Quote:

Originally Posted by CollegeTillIDie

Well it's clear that you are too young to remember Dave Tilson and EOin Mullen who were developed into EL players at UCD and later played for Bohs. That's what we bring to the League not to mention educating young fellas who might not otherwise get third level education and setting them up for life after football , before their careers begin in earnest.

yeah, but honestly thats not what a senior premier division club should be about. couldnt your players get scholarships from UCD and play for real clubs?
20/07/2006, 12:36 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dodge

I' guess most clubs have ambitions to be in the champions league every year. The other things most clubs have is some sense of reality

..... and a sense of time-scale......
20/07/2006, 12:46 PM
Ringo

Quote:

Ringo - assuming Carrolls found the Dublin City link to be a success, why not look to strike-up a similar one with an established/popular club ?? In particular, I'd have thought teams with names like 'Shamrock Rovers' and 'St Patrick's Athletic' were gifts to a tourist-driven business like Carrolls ? Rovers especially, as they play in green and white.

You could do a nice range with UCD. There always seems to be demand for some reason amongst tourists for 'college' gear. 'University College Dublin' merchandise wouldn't sell any worse than Dublin City kit in my opinion, and it could be a cheap way for you to trade on the college name (without having to pay the college the level of fees they'd expect) ? Just a thought.

I went to Shelbourne first & no one returned my calls. I met Rocky & the rest is history. There's already UCD merchandise out there, other than the football club
20/07/2006, 12:48 PM
pineapple stu

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

I think Seery should be banned from any involvement in irish football for say 10 years for allowing a club to fold mid season.

I agree. If there were a "fit and proper person" test for involvement in Irish football - which, criminally, there isn't - Seery should fail it. It's all well and good saying he put his heart and soul and money into the club, but the bottom line is he had no concept of budgeting, he had no concept of reality and he had no concept of how to run a football club. I'd want him nowhere near my club.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breifne

Pineapple Stu, I think it's grossly unfair to suggest that Dublin City leave a trail of debt behind them. The vast majority of their debt is to financial institutions and directors' loans (and probably the revenue), not to players, management or suppliers.

You told me yourself that DC had been banned from half the training grounds on the northside for non-payment of bills. :confused: Maybe I took you up wrong, in which case feel free to correct me. I'm also confused as to how you not that Revenue were "probably" a creditor? If you're refuting my suggestion that there are unpaid bills, surely you'd know who's owed money? Revenue were owed E70k as of 18 months ago, with the club after posting a loss of E400k. That's probably a lot higher at this stage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

You could do a nice range with UCD. There always seems to be demand for some reason amongst tourists for 'college' gear. 'University College Dublin' merchandise wouldn't sell any worse than Dublin City kit in my opinion, and it could be a cheap way for you to trade on the college name (without having to pay the college the level of fees they'd expect) ? Just a thought.

Meh. The Budweiser deal is worth almost twice as much as DC's deal with Carroll's. Don't really see a need to change, to be honest.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GavinZac

yeah, but honestly thats not what a senior premier division club should be about.

Yep, no Premier Division club shuld be interested in bringing young players through. :rolleyes:
20/07/2006, 12:52 PM
dcfcsteve

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ringo

I met Rocky & the rest is history.

Literally...

So would you not look to try again with another club ? Why wouldn't you if it was successful ?
20/07/2006, 12:56 PM
Schumi

All my sympathy to the fans. A 5 year-old club or not (I'm only supporting UCD for 6 years odd and I can't imagine how I'd feel if the club disappeared), there's obviously a strong bond.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passive

Why were they given a licence to play in the top flight despite being in financial chaos? Why was their reckless trading allowed to continue unchecked?

Regardless of the irrelevent Rovers bashing above, this is a crucial point. How can an obviously unviable club (a quick check of their accounts would make that blatently obvious) be allowed start the season? Any cursory check by the licensing committee (or whoever decides on who gets licences) would have rung alarm bells so why weren't they asked for a business plan for the season to show how they'd pay their bills? The FAI have some big questions to answer in all this.
20/07/2006, 1:01 PM
Gooner Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by mypost

As they were due to play Home Farm at Dalymount on November 17 this year, UCD will finish the season one week earlier than everyone else after Week 32 of the current campaign.

Dublin City's demise will give us a week more to prepare for the FAI Cup Final.

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