Ireland v Chile, 24/05/06

Just like to mention that I'm not trying to stir up any trouble, I know alot of people here are big fans of the EL and there's nothing wrong with that. I personally feel that even the fourth tier of English football if vastly superior to the EL and players get paid more there than here and hence the better players will move abroad. Good luck to Byrne but I don't think anyone could really put forth a strong argument that the next step in his career is anything except to get on with an English club.

Also - anyone know why there were six minutes added on at the end?

I don't see the need for all the doom and gloom. It was an end of season friendly where most of the players haven't played for a few weeks so it was always going to be a struggle to get into your stride. Now if it had been a qualifier that would've been a different matter....

The result ultimately means nothing and it's all about what you learn and take from the match.

I'm sure Stan will have learned that Stephen Kelly still has a lot to do to make it at this level and Doyle is going to be a good foil for Keane. As Stuttgart (I think) said, he's not a "natural" goalscorer but he can still put the ball away and has got a creative spark. Potentially a Rush and Dalglish type partnership.

Just realised that Doyle was given man of the match!

Apart from being embarrased that we awarded it to ourselves, he never got the opportunity!

Between Duff, Dunne & Kilbane for me.

Funnily enough cavan Fan, I've long felt Delap has always had the attributes to be a reserve centre-half. Similarly, in response to a post above, it wasn't that zany an idea to move KK to centre-back. He's tall & good in the air & we simply had no further CB options on the bench. It was late in a friendly so it was no big deal.

Again, I actually think Carr RHM and keeping Finnan at RB makes far more sense. Finnan is one of the most accomplished full backs going, and Carr's strength is pushing forward.

ifk101 - I think it'll be a while before we know our best XI. In fairness, we were never going to know going into the Germany game, 3 games was never going to be enough to try out the options. It'll probably just have to work its own way out in time.

However, fitness permitting, in September I expect the core of the side to be more experienced and far less speculative than last night: Given, Finnan, Dunne, Andy O'Brien, Robbie, Duff, Steve Reid are certainties. Kilbane, Kavanagh, Carr are very likely. That's a lot more physically imposing and experienced. Then add Morrisson, Elliott, Doyle, McGeady, Joey O'Brien to the options and it looks better. In my opinion anyway.

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Originally Posted by vega007

Just like to mention that I'm not trying to stir up any trouble, I know alot of people here are big fans of the EL and there's nothing wrong with that. I personally feel that even the fourth tier of English football if vastly superior to the EL and players get paid more there than here and hence the better players will move abroad. Good luck to Byrne but I don't think anyone could really put forth a strong argument that the next step in his career is anything except to get on with an English club.

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I'm not going to enter into an argument with you because you don't know what you're talking about.

As for Byrne, I'm all for LOI players coming into the international squad but there are at least four better players available to us than Byrne in that particular position.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

However, fitness permitting, in September I expect the core of the side to be more experienced and far less speculative than last night: Given, Finnan, Dunne, Andy O'Brien, Robbie, Duff, Steve Reid are certainties. Kilbane, Kavanagh, Carr are very likely. That's a lot more physically imposing and experienced. Then add Morrisson, Elliott, Doyle, McGeady, Joey O'Brien to the options and it looks better. In my opinion anyway.

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Good points - but I don't think that the starting 11 was really that speculative last night, apart from Kilbane at FB. The team you suggest (barr O'Shea) is basically what Stan went with given availability - O'Brien & the others you mention were injured & Carr is unavailable. And we all know by now what Kavanagh, Breen & Harte can do. More old hat than speculative.

Speculative would have been giving Foley a start together with the likes of Garvan (though think poss. injured) or some other young players a run like Long or Rooney.

I know this is an obvious point but would Niall Quinn please go ahead and buy Sunderland and then perhpas he wont have to be on Sky any more.

Just to pick one of his irritating comments, he seemed to think it was a good thing we could only play 442, rather than an embarassment for professional players (and Jason Byrne! Sorry just trying to wind people up)

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Originally Posted by cavan_fan

rather than an embarassment for professional players (and Jason Byrne! Sorry just trying to wind people up)

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Jason Byrne is a professional player and on better wages than every working person in Cavan (that's when he gets paid).

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Originally Posted by cavan_fan

I know this is an obvious point but would Niall Quinn please go ahead and buy Sunderland and then perhpas he wont have to be on Sky any more.

Just to pick one of his irritating comments, he seemed to think it was a good thing we could only play 442, rather than an embarassment for professional players (and Jason Byrne! Sorry just trying to wind people up)

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Sky's Irish coverage is poor in general. The studio pundits are ex-Ireland players but have nowhere near enough knowledge of the players in or around the squad to have an opinion worth listening to.

[QUOTE=drinkfeckarse]

The result ultimately means nothing and it's all about what you learn and take from the match.

QUOTE]

This may be true, but I don't think Roy Keane (or Fr Jack for that matter) would agree & perhaps that is the main problem or rather challenge for Stan.

In the latter qualifiers the will to win was not as evident as in recent years, and the displays characterised by a lack of ambition, creativity and general nervousness.

The winning character we want needs to be displayed in all our games both competitive and friendly if it is to become embedded in our culture again. We may still lose, but not hopefully so meekly.

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Originally Posted by cavan_fan

Sorry just trying to wind people up)

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I would advice you to avoid doing so in future.

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Originally Posted by Paddy Garcia

Totally agree with onenilgameover re-watching a different Kav. Kavanagh was hopeless, though I agree the will is there. He needs an extra touch every time he receives the ball, so is never able to play the first time ball. OK as a standby, but if he is in the starting 11 we have no chance.

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Can I just ask if you were at the game? I want to know if he looked poor on TV as I have a feeling he wouldn't have looked great. He was up and down the pitch more than anyone though and you don't get to see that on the telly. You say we have no chance with him, I don't think we have a chance without him tbh. It's his off-the-ball abilities I'm talking about. The Gatusso type play that we would need and that O'Shea doesn't offer. Reid and Kavanagh could boss a midfield for us as they're not afraid to get stuck in, O'Shea is, Miller is. btw, he doesn't need an extra touch, that's his style of play when he plays the holding role.

Maybe I just like the aggressive players. I don't rate Frank Lampard as highly as most because he's a bit of a pussy tbh. :)

My man of the match would have been the Chile no.6. Anyone know his name? Good to see Kilbane do well at left back and all Doyle needs now is a goal.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Kavanagh has to start against Germany. I kept an eye on him tonight and he was very good when he came on imo

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Aye, those 2 balls he played along the 6 yard line yo no-one when defending in the box were very smart.:confused:

While I agree the result means absolutely nothing, the attitude of the players does really bother me. They really looked as if they didn't want to be there.
I would be deeply suspicious about Steve Finnan's injury. I think when he heard Stan was going to play him out of position, he decided he was having none of it, and declared himself injured. He has a point. Why should he be shifted around to make way for the cantankerous scut Carr.
I have always thought it was a flawed decision to appoint Stan, a man with no managerial experience. Even in the prematch interview, Robson said Ireland were SURPRISINGLY going to play 3-4-3. He seemed to be distancing himself with the tactic. Don't know why Stephen Reid did not play in his best position in the centre. Miller is never going to be more than a fringe player. He looked lost. Sadly Stehen Kelly was hopeless. Like a rabbit stunned by the headlights. We need Andy O'Brien back there to steady things up. Kilbane was his usual hard-working self. Duff tried all night, but he seems to have lost that extra yard to take him away from defenders. Robbie seemed to have his mind on the afters in Tamagoes. Doyle showed flashes of promise. JOS anonymous. Dunne done well, but doesn't seem to be an organiser.

Of the subs, Maceady showed flashes of promise. Byrne didn't let himself down. Harte hopeless. Kav done well, not the answer though. Henderson nothing to do. And finally Andy Reid. I'm really worried about this player. He seems to be really piling on the weight, and is known to be fond of the good life. Stan didn't have him for Sweden, but still only gave him 5-6 minutes last night. Unless he sorts himself out I can see Andy back playing EL football in about 3 years at this rate.

Anyway sorry about such a negative post, but I think decisions made by that moran Delaney will be coming home to roost fairly soon.

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Can I just ask if you were at the game? I want to know if he looked poor on TV as I have a feeling he wouldn't have looked great. He was up and down the pitch more than anyone though and you don't get to see that on the telly. You say we have no chance with him, I don't think we have a chance without him tbh. It's his off-the-ball abilities I'm talking about. The Gatusso type play that we would need and that O'Shea doesn't offer. Reid and Kavanagh could boss a midfield for us as they're not afraid to get stuck in, O'Shea is, Miller is. btw, he doesn't need an extra touch, that's his style of play when he plays the holding role.

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No, watched it on sky. And he did not come across well.

I agree with you about his willingness, bite & work rate - no problem there. It's not enough though at the top .

The point I was making is that he takes an extra touch every time. Last night he sat on the ball longer than anyone else in midfield. As a consequence you could see the options being closed down. In comparison to the passing by the Chilie midfield he was very pedestrian, and it stunted the Irish attacks. Maybe this is unfair but the memory of Roy Keane using the ball has not quite disippated. That use of the ball is surely essential for someone playing in CM.

I think he can certainly come in and do a job (e.g. as he used to cover R Keane or M Holland) as a one off, but to be the mainstay for an entire qualifying campaign is asking too much of him. He was very badly overrun/bossed in the League Cup final (I think possibly it was by O'Shea).

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Originally Posted by eirebhoy

And to the crowd in the north terraces - get a bloody voice.

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That applies for the whole crowd last night! My first ever time at Lansdowne and it was a funeral home for most of the match (bar about the last 10 minutes or so)

A few things I noticed :

1. The amount of Celtic tops, as many as Ireland tops, if not more of them
2. A Celtic banner in the ground
3. Being greeted to a trainful of kids and a few adults singing the fields
of athenrye (which is fine, apart from the fact they were singing with a Sinn Fein/IRA add on)
4. The lack of noise the crowd made, it was like being at a funeral most of the match!

I don't know what the fans attitude is toward people wearing Celtic tops etc. to a match, but I felt at times last night like I was at Parkhead!

Chile ran the first half of the match and Ireland started finally playing around the hour mark.

An enjoyable night overall though, and thanks again to 4tothefloor for sorting me out with tickets for it. It was certainly interesting to see Lansdowne and the public transport was spot on.

Yeah, I couldn't argue with most of that but it doesn't take away from the fact that he's better than O'Shea, Miller and anyone else that can play in that position atm.

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Originally Posted by Drumcondra_Blue

That applies for the whole crowd last night!

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Not really. Most sections of the crowd at least tried to get something going, even the west side of the north terrace. I was over the opposite side of the north terrace and I'd try sing the first line of whatever the rest of the crowd were trying to get going and I was just embarassing myself. Compared to the Sweden match when I sang a line and everyone else would join in. :)

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It was the worst, half hearted effort of a game i've seen in such a long time

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This was an end of season friendly and you need to put it into context. Remember Cyprus away and Switz home in the last campaign.

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I know this is an obvious point but would Niall Quinn please go ahead and buy Sunderland and then perhpas he wont have to be on Sky any more.

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He is probably one of the better pundits on that station. He is always well balanced, I find.

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Sky's Irish coverage is poor in general.

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An what do you think of RTE's friendly coverage. Sky are putting money into the game in this country when they buy ALL our home games. RTE werent bothered buying the friendlies.

Last night was an end of season friendly. However after last night it is clear that Kav and Reid is our best central midfield partnership for the qualifiers. Kav is very solid defensive midfielder and Reid is turning into an excellent passing attacking midfielder and I think he will only get better under the mentorship of Hughes. The back 4 were a shambles all night but when the likes of Finnan, O' Brien (* 2) , Carr are back in things will tighten up. Personally I would play Finnan left back. He is one of a rare breed in that he can actually play with both feet. For me the team should be :

Given
Carr or O' Brien (depending on who's playing reg for club)
O' Brien
Dunne
Finnan

Mc Geady/ perhaps Carr
Kav
Reid
Duff

Keane
Doyle (or Morrison)

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Originally Posted by drummerboy

I would be deeply suspicious about Steve Finnan's injury. I think when he heard Stan was going to play him out of position, he decided he was having none of it, and declared himself injured. He has a point. Why should he be shifted around to make way for the cantankerous scut Carr.
I have always thought it was a flawed decision to appoint Stan, a man with no managerial experience. Even in the prematch interview, Robson said Ireland were SURPRISINGLY going to play 3-4-3. He seemed to be distancing himself with the tactic.

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Total speculation about Finnan.

Only surprising thing about 3 at the back was that we are known as a 4 at the back team. I'd read nothing sinister into Robson's comment at all.