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I find the whole third tier discussion withering.
I have to laugh at people using one attendance figure for a glamour FAI Cup tie or big FAI Junior/Intermediate game as a basis for that club being a good addition to the third tier that will definitely have good support against Ragball Rovers on a Saturday in the third tier.
Do you have a better indicator of likely support for a club than recent displays of their actual support (even if it was a 'soecial' game)?Quote:
Originally Posted by Shearer
As I mentioned re Castlebar, a lot of people at their game were wearing club merchandise - and not just young blokes who would be in one of their teams. As stated, that suggests a depth of support beyond just turning up for a one-off game. Castlebar supporters also had their own songs - which again suggests a sizeable group of people who have been together watching that team before. Also evidence of not just one-off behaviour.
Derry v Drogheda in the Cup yet again. Unreal. We (Drogheda) seem to play them (Derry) almost every year. Weird.
For Shels it's going to be awkwardly sandwiched most likely on the Sunday in between Shels guaranteed European competition play-off 1st leg on the Thursday, assuming Pats don't make it past Besiktas/Shakhtar to the Conference League play-off then its full on scope for Pats to play a strongest XI throw the kitchen sink at that match whereas Shels just can't be 100% on it playing any full strength starting XI risking injuries with their eye on the more important play-off gameQuote:
Originally Posted by placid casual
Dundalk-lite is a new one on me. Care to elaborate? Genuinely curious.Quote:
Originally Posted by placid casual
For the record I hope we hammer Celtic-lite.
Assuming it's the town/de town or perhaps he's still rattled over the "development team" fiasco.Quote:
Originally Posted by De Town
Genuinely (and non sarcastically) enjoyed this anthropological analysis of Castlebar football scene.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
He's right though, their supporters all had club gear on and were chanting away (albeit knock off Celtic songs which we soon let them know in a return chant haha) but they absolutely loved the banter, they said they'd been waiting years to see a team with proper fan culture come down, you'd just hope if a Mayo representative team does go into LOI that people like that would support itQuote:
Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa
Or with Castlebar having many elements that we would hope for at a new club then they should be the Mayo representative team! Fans will look to support them and not Castlebar fans following someone else. Why ruin it when it works already!!
Talking to people at the game they said there's no way they could afford to go into the LOIQuote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
We seen this before with Newbridge Town becoming Kildare County, and not finding much success, although times are different now.
Personally (and I am not from Mayo so dont know the dynamics there) but if Castlebar Celtic have an identity and want to compete at LOI level, let them, and let people from Westport (for example) make their own choice of trying to compete with them in LOI, or support Castlebar in LOI and have Westport United happy as a junior team, instead of creating a new entity in Mayo.
There is a lot of history and social ties that way that people can grab a hold onto.
I'm still not convinced that trying to transpose GAA-style county identities onto the LOI is a sustainable long-term strategy. To survive in this league, a club needs a deep, authentic identity, and not something bland and corporate like a county name.
More importantly to the topic really is how do people in Kerry and Wexford feel about their transitions? Is Kerry FC getting support from all of Kerry, or just Tralee, and if so, would they have been if Tralee Dynamos had went on their own? Wexford is maybe a different case, because Wexford Youths were a new entity closely associated with Mick Wallace, so a 'rebrand' was probably needed anyways.
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Final point... The club IP for Kildare County and Kilkenny City were some of the nicest in the league. Two great crests and great colour combinations, especially Kildare's of White, Black, and Gold. Would have loved those clubs to revived just for that. Real pity we lost those clubs in the 2000s, as maybe if they got over the hump of those years were many clubs went to the wall, they could have been very viable today.
For what it's worth, a fella I was at the game with on Sunday got chatting to a Castlebar Celtic fan at HT. He said he'd have absolutely no interest in following Mayo FC in the LOI - he's a Castlebar Celtic fan and that's it. Obviously a small sample size and there's likely differing views out there, but thought it was interesting at least. I'm sure the chap isn't alone with those thoughts anyway.
Agreed on both points. Several of the lost clubs could easily have had more success launched at a different time, in a different economic climate and with a different public impression of the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiki Balboa
Didn't even read your post, just going off the reams and reams of futile posts with lads clinging onto things to validate their logic behind x club going into the league.Quote:
Originally Posted by EatYerGreens
Didnt read but took the time and felt in necessary to post about it, what do you want a message board with no messages, debate without debating?
Or a mix of both! Mad I know but hear me out: assuming it's a choice of Castlebar or Mayo, Newbridge or Klub Kildare and Evergreen or CK United for the 3rd tier, then maybe take some county clubs AND some town clubs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
So if you decide to take in CK United, don't also take in Mayo (or vice versa). However, leave them to run at the national underage level while their rival, e.g. Castlebar, gets up to speed. That'll take a few years and if Castlebar Celtic look like dropping out by then, Mayo FC are best placed to step up.
Worst case, we'll know which areas better suit a county team and which better suit the club. Maybe none will suit clubs/counties but at least you'll have the other on standby, ready to prove people wrong.
Could say that about the vast majority of LoI clubs. Taking the financial opinion out of the debate just for the moment it is preferable to have a Castlebar rather than County Mayo. It also depends on at what level people think Castlebar couldnt afford LoI, if they are trying to be Sligo or Galways then no, if they start off as amatuer and dont race to get promoted then its as doable as it has been for any club that has gone senior and it stuck, they could have a better chance than others did with an existing identity. It should be part of this revamp that the FAI facilitate clubs making a step up, prizemoney being the obvious way and a club competing nationally can generate more income. If we open up a full pyramid over the years then all will be playing as part of the senior system even if not senior so costs could go up if they simply climb the system in due course.Quote:
Originally Posted by outspoken
Agree on the point that one size of model certainly doesn't suit all counties, I guess the key factor for which each individual one should pursue is the pre-existing soccer culture - ie, both Newbridge and Maynooth appear to be thriving at intermediate level, so may well suit Kildare needs better than the current Klub Kildare, whereas as suggested, in terms of general affordability, it may suit Castlebar better to simply supply players towards Mayo FC, even if the difference in cost may be minimal for the third tier.
You can be amateur all you want but they'd still have to find the money to travel to Cobh and Donegal. They'd have to try and become more professional even on an amateur basis ie more training, food for players. It all adds upQuote:
Originally Posted by Nesta99
Only if they reached the 2nd tier though. And if Kerry and Wexford can manage it....Quote:
Originally Posted by outspoken