Well this is pretty horrendous -
https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2019/...street-review/
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Well this is pretty horrendous -
https://www.rte.ie/news/health/2019/...street-review/
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
I saw this, it is brutal. The poor couple.
I was surprised that the abortion went ahead seeing as the 3rd test (the definitive one, it seems) hadn't been finished, or at least, the results hadn't come back. Kind of defeats the purpose of doing that test to an extent. Bearing in mind this was after the 12-week limit so a reason needed to be given, and I'm surprised the results from the first two tests were considered sufficient.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
I had forgotten all about this subject on Current Affairs until I saw the latest post from The Fly and Osarun.
And as I read through the posts I came upon this one.
In any event, I wonder if you have been following the news stories from America this week?
As it happened the state of Alabama followed Georgia in rejecting abortion, although they (Alabama) have gone all out and rejected all abortion even in the case of rape and incest.
Missouri followed suit and currently there are 16 states which have rejected abortion.
For the record, I do not believe in abortion, but having said that I would find it really difficult to disagree with anyone seeking an abortion in the case of rape or incest.
The country, it is safe to say, is headed on a collision course on the subject of abortion and, shock of all shocks, the Democrats are in uproar that anyone, let alone a whole state, would oppose abortion.
But the consensus of opinion in America points back to that decision by and subsequent celebrations of the New York State Legislature to grant abortions even after the baby has been born (remember I got laughed off the stage when I brought it up a few months ago).
The link below touches on the events of the week.
https://www.newsmax.com/christopherr...514/?oRef=mixi
Hot off the presses
https://dailycaller.com/2019/05/19/d..._campaign=push
Apologies for the late reply. I didn't want to comment on it much at the time given the context. It is indeed a brutal case, and sadly - an inevitable one. I'm sure it has been an awful experience for the couple and my thoughts go out to them.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
My own stance on abortion hasn't changed and never will. I've little desire to stir up the debate again but all I will say is that it's interesting to note the terms used in the various reports on the case, and how each makes reference to the couple's baby.
https://twitter.com/netflixisajoke/s...087612417?s=21
Dave Chappell’s take on abortion. Exposes the selfishness of the “my body, my choice” argument.
“And if I’m wrong, then perhaps we’re wrong. So figure that sh!t out for yourselves”
Thankfully there was a happier outcome for this mother and child -Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
https://www.thesun.ie/news/4652022/m...nged-hospital/
Quote:
Originally Posted by passinginterest
I just read the following article and thought I'd provide an update on the exchange above.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
https://www.independent.ie/irish-new...138295825.html
So...there was a significant increase in the number of abortions carried out in Ireland last year rising to 10,033, the highest since the law changed to make it easier to have a termination.
Delving deeper into it (and highlighting the exceptions for obvious reasons)...statistics show that last year 21 procedures were carried out due to a risk to life or health of the mother under the grounds set out in Section 9 of the Act. Seven terminations were completed where there was a risk to life or health in an emergency situation. Another 129 were due to a fatal foetal abnormality and 9,876 medical abortions were carried out in early pregnancy.
As predictable as it was inevitable. C'est la vie!
As it all was entirely the choice provided to the women in question.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
I'm not sure what you're saying there exactly, or indeed what it has to do with the update provided.Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954
How are the tourism figures to the UK?
If you have those stats to hand then please share.Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
Wouldn't you know it, but I don't? It's almost like those women were invisible.
Are you suggesting that the annual increases are explained solely by the previously indeterminate figures for said invisible women?Quote:
Originally Posted by John83
I think it's fair to suggest it has to be a sizeable factor - would you not agree? After all, why would you travel to England for a medical procedure that is now available here?
I think it represents a significant challenge to your original point (that what we're seeing is more abortion), and I think the onus is on you to back that point up more thoroughly, no?
Once your point is quantified, it becomes easier to discuss.
I do agree, but how sizeable it is another thing entirely.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
The flip of that assumes that's there's a predetermined proportion of all pregnancies that will end in abortion, and that what we're seeing now is just the increasing visibility of what was once invisible. In which case how will we know when full visibility has been reached?Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
On a separate note...the figures pertaining to the exceptions make for sober reading and just bolster my belief that abortion should always be, and should have been, allowed in those circumstances.
It is - but if you're going to make the claim that there is now "more abortion" than before, I think the onus is on you to prove your claim, and you haven't done so. Because you've left out a really key data set which even now you can't quantify.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
A better comparison would be the % of pregnancies which ended in abortion before and after the referendum - because your caveat "there was a significant increase in the number of abortions carried out in Ireland" (my emphasis) is pretty irrelevant when something literally wasn't allowed before the referendum.
It's hard to be definitive as figures for Irish women seeking abortions in Britain (and elsewhere) prior to the introduction of the 2018 Act are based on estimates. Though in 2016 for example, 3,265 Irish women were recorded as having had abortions in Britain (as per Simon Harris' speech to the Dáil on the Amendment of the Constitution).Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
It's not accurate to say that it's pretty irrelevant because that would fail to take into account how values and human behaviour are changed and influenced by the particular standards of the time (the zeitgeist in other words).Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
This applies to other issues like marriage and divorce rates for example, or the current and increasing debate around gender to use a more topical example.
It may well be hard to be definitive. But your post was pretty definitive, even though this information was missing from it.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
I think it's entirely accurate to say your comparison - which amounted to "significant increase in something happening here after it become no longer illegal" - is pretty irrelevant.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
Oops, I accidentally deleted my reply there...
(does anyone else have issues editing posts on a mobile phone?)
Fair point. The discussion has now been updated with the example provided.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu
And I'll just reiterate that it isn't for the reason provided.Quote:
Originally Posted by pineapple stu