Should UCD be in the league stuff

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Originally posted by pineapple stu
That said, we have to look at how to stop people playing with us for three or four years and then moving on, 'cos we've had two really (or relatively anyway) successful spells in our 25 years in the league (1982-1985 and 1994-2002) and both coincided with fairly few players leaving.

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Considering the numbers you take for the scholarship, and then dump after a year you can hardly be surprised.... Witness Paddy Mulvihill who was released from his scholarship, yet is doing well with the Town and getting under age caps...

The scholarship is a means of proping up your club - it would work equally well if players went to the College on the scholarship, got the training etc and were allowed to develop with their local/ home eL team...

You get the funding on the basis on developing the players, so you can hardly give out when it's up and they can join a higher profile club*

[SIZE=1]*resisted the temptation to say proper club[/SIZE]

That kind of ignores the bigger issue of losing guys like Bazza Ryan to the Scum, or Robbie Doyle to Bohs.

Seeing as Theo's the assistant, there's definitely no chance of him going to Drogheda. Doolo brought in a couple of coaches from Shels when he came - Noel White was one - but they've already gone to Dublin City.

Don't see how the COllege scheme can't fit into a professional league though. Look at our best current XI - i.e. players in the league who started with us. Bazza, Shay Kelly, Tony McCarthy, Colwell, Palmer, Keddy, Jody Lynch (Bray), Martyn, Myler, Lynch, Doyle, Mulvihill, Kavanagh and others I can't think of now. Also the decent players we have here - McDonnell, McNally, Cawley, Davey, Ryan, McAuley, etc. Put them together and we've got one of the best squads in the league. Add in some experiences old-timers - Swan, Mooney, Doolin, whom the club have said they'll sign if they come available - and we have the bones of a great side.

The problem we have is that we're the fifth team in Dublin, so it's much easier to leave us for a bigger club than for someone to leave Cork for a bigger club 'cos we have so many big clubs near us. If we can find a way to stop that, then we're sorted. All we really need is a team of Tony McDonnells!!

As for the criticism that we play too much football - that's ridiculous! If Cork took the ball down and played, they'd be a much better team than they are now. If we hoofed it, we'd have gone down years ago. I think it's commendable that all our managers have encouraged the team to play the ball around, even at the back. Just 'cos we got caught out once doesn't make it a bad strategy! How many points have Cork thrown away against us alone just because they kept hoofing?!

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Originally posted by pineapple stu
The problem we have is that we're the fifth team in Dublin ... if we can find a way to stop that, then we're sorted.

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Sabotage Bohs, Rovers, Pats and $hels!

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Originally posted by Schumi
Sabotage Bohs, Rovers, Pats and $hels!

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Even better - let them sabotage each other! They seem to be getting the hang of it now!

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Originally posted by Paul Doolin
I just think the club isn’t suited to a professional league any more. That’s the harsh reality of it.

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He's dead right. There's no place for ye in this league, I mean look at it yesterday, there were about 300 people at the game and 200 of them were City fans, that's pathetic. Ye're ground is a horrible little place to go and watch a match and is always devoid of any atmosphere. I could go on and on.

I'm not being nasty or trying to wind ye up but, as Doolin himself said, that's the harsh reality of it.

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The problem we have is that we're the fifth team in Dublin, so it's much easier to leave us for a bigger club than for someone to leave Cork for a bigger club 'cos we have so many big clubs near us. If we can find a way to stop that, then we're sorted. All we really need is a team of Tony McDonnells!!

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Easier? Yes. Possible to stop them leaving? Definitely.

If likes of Bazza, Colwell and even Doyle or Martyn thought we had any real ambition then they would've at least considered staying. As it is, we're a platform to better things. Even our managers seem to use to club as a stepping-stone.

There was something like 500 players released this season in England alone and you're telling me that the board couldn't open the purse-strings to bring in even two (not the Barry Andrews' of this world, somebody who will actually improve the team) after offloading Bazza, Purdy, Clive and Doyler? I know we didn't get any money from selling them but we did clear (I'm assuming) some of the clubs' highest earners off the wage bill. Gate receipts are up too so I refuse to believe that there isn't money laying around to spend on wages...I'm not asking for the world here, I'm asking for two Nationwide Division 2/3 quality players.

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He's dead right. There's no place for ye in this league, I mean look at it yesterday, there were about 300 people at the game and 200 of them were City fans, that's pathetic. Ye're ground is a horrible little place to go and watch a match and is always devoid of any atmosphere. I could go on and on.

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I'm not arguing the point, you're probably right, but there's no point in telling us what we've already heard about a thousand times before. It can get really grating having people tell me that there's "no place for us in the league" over and over and over and over and over again...Also, I'd doubt Cork would be drawing huge crowds if they were bottom of the league with eleven points.

Apparently the story is that they were looking at the lot released in England but there was nobody decent at all. Don't know if that's true or not, but in fairness, I don't recall many other clubs picking up too many players either (Neale Fenn excepted).

As for the "Should we be in the league?" rubbish, there's plenty of threads on that in this forum, so if you want to go and have a look at some of the refutations, go ahead. Just don't be wasting time regurgitating the same old stuff again and again please... If crowd and ground is the only reason to kick a team out of the league, then half the First Division wouldn't be around, and nor would the likes of Drogheda, Rovers, Waterford and, to a lesser extent, Pat's, all of whose grounds are of dubious quality (or don't exist...) too.

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Originally posted by pineapple stu
Apparently the story is that they were looking at the lot released in England but there was nobody decent at all. Don't know if that's true or not, but in fairness, I don't recall many other clubs picking up too many players either (Neale Fenn excepted).

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I refuse to believe that (narrowing it down to Div 2/3) out of about 300 to 350 players there wasn't one who would've improved, at the very least, the squad.

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As for the "Should we be in the league?" rubbish, there's plenty of threads on that in this forum, so if you want to go and have a look at some of the refutations, go ahead. Just don't be wasting time regurgitating the same old stuff again and again please... If crowd and ground is the only reason to kick a team out of the league, then half the First Division wouldn't be around, and nor would the likes of Drogheda, Rovers, Waterford and, to a lesser extent, Pat's, all of whose grounds are of dubious quality (or don't exist...) too.

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Apparently they have better fans than us. We're killing the league by not giving clubs an extra few hundred euro a season, didn't you hear?

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pineapple stu
... If crowd and ground is the only reason to kick a team out of the league, then half the First Division wouldn't be around, and nor would the likes of Drogheda, Rovers, Waterford and, to a lesser extent, Pat's, all of whose grounds are of dubious quality (or don't exist...) too.

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Your joking aren't you. In O2 there is a stand and two terraces,it can hold about 5000 - 90% of the terrrace area is covered.

Rovers don't currently have a ground, but when they do it will be up there with the best in the EL.

Waterford have a fine stand in the RSC.

Pats have a fine facility in inchicore.

What do you guys have, some temproary seats, thats about it.

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Originally posted by pconnor
You're joking aren't you. In O2 there is a stand and two terraces,it can hold about 5000 - 90% of the terrrace area is covered.

Rovers don't currently have a ground, but when they do it will be up there with the best in the EL.

Waterford have a fine stand in the RSC.

Pats have a fine facility in inchicore.

What do you guys have, some temproary seats, thats about it.

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Emmm...O2 Park has 250 seats and that's it. The terrace looked full enough when we played youz in the Cup yet had only 1000 in it. O2 Park will not meet UEFA Licencing regulations on a number of criteria and so is not a great ground.

Rovers don't have a ground at the moment. Obviously it'll be good when it's built, but then so will ours when Belfield is renovated (first phase to begin in January apparently).

I haven't been to Waterford, so I admit I'm walking on thin ice here, but I haven't heard great things about it. Was talking to some Cork fans before the match on Sunday and they said it wasn't a great ground at all.

Pat's have one stand which is decent, a Shed which is a tip, a not great terrace and a random hill behind the other goal.

I'm not saying our ground is better than all these, but it's certainly not that much worse that it justifies kicking us out of the league.

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Originally posted by UCD_4_Life
I refuse to believe that (narrowing it down to Div 2/3) out of about 300 to 350 players there wasn't one who would've improved, at the very least, the squad.

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Seems strange alright - and that's just what I've heard, it's not what I believe - but then it's not as if we've been shying away from signing new players this season. Austin O'Neill (Dublin City), Tadhg Purcell (Shamrock Rovers), Mark Leech (Rovers as well I think), Mark Rooney, yer man Gaffney (Sligo), Gallagher (Dundalk), Lloyd Colfer (Pat's), Barry Andrews (Glebe North - via Leyton Orient, so it seems we were looking in England). I don't see why we'd sign all these players and yet not sign one from England if he was there. It's not as if we're short of contacts in England or anything.

But O'Neill's looked promising, Rooney played very well against Cork - hopefully a sign of the future - Gaffney and Gallagher were already regulars in Division One, getting Leech and Purcell from Rovers and Colfer from Pat's sounds encouraging - Leech's dad is one of the all-time top scorers in the League of Ireland ever, so he has some pedigree.

There's eight players we've signed this season though - three on deadline day - so I don't understand Doolo saying how he couldn't sign anyone???

Just on "Should or shouldn't you be in the league bit" I go through phases of wanting you out around about the time when you beat us or hold us to a nil nil. When I've calmed down I say fair play to you.

i think this could be a reason why some want you out. they hate the idea of this small club with few fans rivalling their "big" club. I think what UCD have done with such limited resources should be a model for all "smaller" clubs. Get in young talented footballers, pay for their education and do your damnest to keep them together.

The ground does need some work and I can't believe how poorly the club is advertised around the college but you're in the premier on merit and don't let the begrudgers get you down...

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Originally posted by Dodge
I think what UCD have done with such limited resources should be a model for all "smaller" clubs. Get in young talented footballers, pay for their education and do your damnest to keep them together.

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Actually we've a pretty good record against them - My problem is the whole scholarship scheme and how it operates, and gives UCD an unfair advantage..... Dodge, it's we as tax payers (not the UCD 6 obviously ;) ) who pay for their scholarships - not UCD the club. It's a Government grant. They can only be a model for other smaller clubs, if i) clubs can get the same kind of Government funding ii) they have a third level institution locally to tie in with.

Incidentally I see Paddy Mulvihill mentioned on this thread as an example of the players UCD could've had - he was dumped out of the scholarship scheme, he didn't choose to leave.... He has however put off several of our young players who were offered the scholarship (after coming up through our ranks!!!!) from accepting them due to the treatment he recieved while at UCD....

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Originally posted by Dodge
I go through phases of wanting you out around about the time when you beat us or hold us to a nil nil.

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After some of those 0-0 games, I want us out of the league. :D

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I can't believe how poorly the club is advertised around the college

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Up until about 2 years ago, there were loads of posters put up around college for every match and it did absolutely no good. It was completely wasted effort. Recently, instead of that, the club started targeting the local area instead to greater effect and this can only improve.

I know Macy but the club do a lot of fundraising to help build that scholarship fund. Its not all Government funded (and why shouldn’t they fund other scholarships but that’s a different matter) BTW Macy you’re one of the “smaller” clubs too :)

And Schumi it might not have worked in the past but stopping it means you’re giving in, and you can’t do that

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Originally posted by Dodge
And Schumi it might not have worked in the past but stopping it means you’re giving in, and you can’t do that

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I agree in principle but given the limited resources of the club, I think it makes more sense to target a more fruitful set of potential supporters.

Macy, you appear to be getting back on to the "UCD Out" stuff which is explained elsewhere!!!

For the record, I will repeat - there is nothing stopping any other club in the country forming their own link with a local college (apart from Longford possibly, as there's no college in Longford!!) and emulating what we do. We've come up with a very good idea and yet people say it's unfair. That's ridiculous. Cork are one team I know who have emulated our scheme with success - and yet their scholarships to UCC are paid by...guess who...the taxpayer!

Our problems are -

a) being the fifth club in Dublin.
b) not having any sort of decent-sized fan-base which can attract new people and be built upon.

There are many leagues in Europe which have a UCD - a small club from the capital which has far lower support than the others. UCD is not unique. However, if we can sort these two problems out, we can be as big a club as any in the country - there's no reason why not (largest catchment area in the country).

And incidentally, I don't know the ins and outs of the Patrick Mulvihill story, but almost every player who does play or has played for UCD has found it to be a great experience and there has never been any suggestions of ill-treatment of players. Knowing most of the players, I know that the team spirit in the team is superb. That's not to say the Mulvihill story is untrue; just to point out that at best it's an extremely isolated example. We do have problems with some players, but that's either for them getting too arrogant after picking up some youth caps or not being able to handle the study.

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Originally posted by Dodge
I can't believe how poorly the club is advertised around the college

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Just to add my two cents on that -

There're so many ads around the College that they're hardly noticed any more unless you're actively looking for them. We used to have luminous yellow, orange and green fliers, yet they just got drowned out among all the other posters.

As we have limited resources (as do all clubs), it makes sense to try and attract the people most likely to come - i.e. locals, not students who either support an Irish team or have become bar-stoolers. There are a few who can be converted, but not enough - in fact, Macy knows them as "The UCD Six"!

Especially now with summer soccer, targetting the College overly doesn't make sense. All Superleague members will automatically become members of the UCD Supporters' Club, and as such will receive a monthly newsletter, including directions to the ground!, and we'll be able to keep in touch with them. So we're concentrating more on the local areas - our soccer camps have been successful - while still keeping tabs on the students. Personally, I think this is the best way to go.

Can't believe I forgot about Summer soccer...

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Originally posted by pineapple stu
As for the criticism that we play too much football - that's ridiculous! If Cork took the ball down and played, they'd be a much better team than they are now

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I might be ridiculed but Town are where we are because of trying to play football... ever since the drogs game we have played ball and I'm hopeing the awful 4-2 defeat to Bohs doesn't force us back to Hoof-ball...

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Originally posted by Xlex
I might be ridiculed but Town are where we are because of trying to play football... ever since the drogs game we have played ball and I'm hopeing the awful 4-2 defeat to Bohs doesn't force us back to Hoof-ball...

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Xlex, if you ever start to think that hoof-ball is the way to go, just think back to our 2-0 win in Longford last January. Youz hoofed for 90 minutes, did absolutely nothing, we (after a short while doing the same thing!) played yez off the park and scored two brilliant goals. :D

Hoof-ball will win the occasional game after it's introduced, but teams suss it out very quickly.

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Originally posted by pineapple stu
Xlex, if you ever start to think that hoof-ball is the way to go, just think back to our 2-0 win in Longford last January. Youz hoofed for 90 minutes, did absolutely nothing, we (after a short while doing the same thing!) played yez off the park and scored two brilliant goals

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yeah, and we walked youse of the park 3-0 recently... You have no mutant to guard the back now!!

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Originally posted by Xlex
yeah, and we walked youse of the park 3-0 recently... You have no mutant to guard the back now!!

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Jayz, I'd just gotten that out my head!!!

Was the Drogs game you were talking about before or after that?

Bottom line though - hoof and be damned like Cork to an eternity of underachievement!

a fair few games after....

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Originally posted by pineapple stu

For the record, I will repeat - there is nothing stopping any other club in the country forming their own link with a local college (apart from Longford possibly, as there's no college in Longford!!) and emulating what we do. We've come up with a very good idea and yet people say it's unfair. That's ridiculous. Cork are one team I know who have emulated our scheme with success - and yet their scholarships to UCC are paid by...guess who...the taxpayer!

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Well thats not totally correct. The City Scheme is run by Coláiste Stiofán Naofa (A PLC College with nowhere near the resources of UCD) and doesnt have such a strong link with City as the UCD-UCDAFC link. Liam Murphy, our Technicial Director runs the course so he runs the rule over the best players and sets them up with trials with City but not every player on the course is signed to Cork City, there have been players from Limerick, Ramblers, Waterford, Dundalk and Killkenny on it.

UCC want to keep their own team for themselves so I dont think they'd agree to a link up, although in Basketball they have linked up with the Blue Deamons to form the UCC Deamons.

As Pineapple Stu said nothing stopping every other club in the league doing something like it.

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Originally posted by pineapple stu
And incidentally, I don't know the ins and outs of the Patrick Mulvihill story, but almost every player who does play or has played for UCD has found it to be a great experience and there has never been any suggestions of ill-treatment of players. Knowing most of the players, I know that the team spirit in the team is superb. That's not to say the Mulvihill story is untrue; just to point out that at best it's an extremely isolated example. We do have problems with some players, but that's either for them getting too arrogant after picking up some youth caps or not being able to handle the study.

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The Paddy Mulvihill story is true and is by no means an Isolated incident. An other example would be Stephen Lynch who after playing in the UEFA Cup with Longford was poached by UCD under the scholarship scheme only to be chucked the following season.

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Originally posted by TheOne
The Paddy Mulvihill story is true and is by no means an Isolated incident. An other example would be Stephen Lynch who after playing in the UEFA Cup with Longford was poached by UCD under the scholarship scheme only to be chucked the following season.

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apperently Lynch deserved to go, he didn't do much to retain his scholarship... what about Skim? :D

Colm

We like Cork City have got used to playing on Friday nights. And also like City fans have altered our lifestyles accordingly. I would have been at the game had it taken place on Friday night. I was unable to attend the game on Sunday. The advent of summer soccer causes problems for anybody involved with other soccer teams which play in the summer on Sundays like I am .
I have been to over 700 UCD games over the past 22 years , and frequently attend games between our respective clubs at the Cross too.

Most of our supporters don't travel to away games for the record, not even Dublin Derbies in such hospitable places as Dalymount, Richmond Park( Rovers) and The Stadium of Light ( St. Patrick's Athletic) and Tolka Park ( Shelbourne)

And according to figures quoted on this site our average attendances are in the 950-1,000 region. We would have got something closer to the average on a Friday night.
But despite losing a player to International Duty ourselves , we accomodate your club by playing on a Sunday.

If we have the misfortune to go down, you may not be so fortunate in your dealings with the newly promoted club next season.

We have a Supporters' Club?!

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Originally posted by UCD_4_Life
We have a Supporters' Club?!

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Ask the program sellers at the games. It was only founded two games ago, but it's free.

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Originally posted by UCD_4_Life
We have a Supporters' Club?!

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PM me your e-mail if you want and I'll sign you up and send out the first newsletter.

Incidentally, it's worth pointing out that very few of the players we release actually go on to do anything in the league. Mulvihill would be a (minor) exception, as would Glen Fitzpatrick and Eóin Keating. But the UCD scheme is based around exams just as much as training, so if you can't hack the exams, you won't last.

its a shame really as ucd deserve to be in the topflight
:ball: :ball: :ball:

Split from Doolin leaving/new manager thread.

Just to say on points raised above about the scholarships. I don't know anything about Mulvihill or what happened him but I was surprised when didn't get a 1st team start after scoring $hit loads of goals in the under 21s and more surprised when he was subsequently let go. As for Steven Lynch, he was $hite and I was far from surprised when he was let go.

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Originally posted by pconnor
Pats have a fine facility in inchicore.

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ah come on!

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

I can't go into too much detail as I don't know exact figures but I do know this much. The basic (ie what we, yes we (including mysel,f @ndy and pineapple), the taxpayers pay for) is the same for all sports and isn't worth $hit to a grasshopper but the main money comes from fundraising as we are able to provide better deals than other sports due to our fundraising efforts.

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Originally posted by ccfcman
its a shame really as ucd deserve to be in the topflight
:ball: :ball: :ball:

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Please explain how they "deserve to be in the top flight"?

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Originally posted by ccfcman
its a shame really as ucd deserve to be in the topflight

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If they are relegated because of their results that won't be the case! I have enormous respect for the people at UCD and their fans for keeping a small club in the premier for so long, but they would not survive in a professional league which is what I hope we will have in the near future.