Because the 17 month was crying while he was trying to watch TV
Maybe if he wasn't watching so much TV he wouldn't have such messed up Ideas on the value of Human life. Hope they try him as an adult and melt the key
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Because the 17 month was crying while he was trying to watch TV
Maybe if he wasn't watching so much TV he wouldn't have such messed up Ideas on the value of Human life. Hope they try him as an adult and melt the key
No offence BGR, but you seem to be a likely candidate for these Fox-newsesque "society is gone to pieces, where are our values?" type stories.:ball:
Why, dare I ask should he be tried as an adult?
You can't beat a todler with a baseball bat now ..... PC gone mad
Firstly it doesn't say anything about society gone to pieces in the actual article it was solely my opinion. I think he should be tried as an adult as if he's not he'll be in a young offenders center for a couple of years and that'll be it. I think his crime deserves more punishmentQuote:
Originally Posted by Risteard
He's only 12 years old. There's no way he should be tried as an adult. He just wanted the kid to shut up, I don't think he really understood what killing the child meant.
It's all TVs fault :eek: :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
What next Block G, a crusade against the evils of the internet?? :rolleyes:
Just an idea but who in there right mind would leave there 12 year old son babysit two children while they headed out shopping or out socialising,in my opinion the parents have let down all three kids in this case,and as for trying him as an adult shouldnt the parents face some charges as well i.e child neglect,child abondement?:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
Obviously it's not TV's fault, but you have to ask yourself is there not something wrong that when something is so all consuming that someone would kill a family member to enable himself to enjoy it uninterrupted. Scary, very very, scaryQuote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
Block G, why do you think the law makes distinctions between crimes committed by adults and crimes committed by juveniles?
I know where you're coming from, but come on these days some 12 year old's are drinking, doing drug's, having Sex. My 8 year old step daughter would have a fair concept of what death is, at 12 I'd expect most people to fully understand "If you beat your baby brother with a baseball bat he will die, and when he's dead that means he's not coming back ever"Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
I understand that Osarasan. but where do you draw the line? In this country you've to be 16 before you can be charged with most crimes and yet we have 14/15 year old's running amok with impunity because they know they are "untouchable". I know some teenagers that are as mature as your average twentysomething and some so called adults that are as about as mature as a box of tissues. there should be some kind of assessment made as to whether a minor is mature enough to understand what they are doing and be tried accordinglyQuote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
Something wrong with the way the child was reared maybeQuote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
Jesus WeptQuote:
Scary, very very, scary
Are you serious
Obviously he was reared in front of a TV setQuote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
And that's the TVs fault??Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
Where did I ever say it was TV's Fault
NowhereQuote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
But your insinuation here:
that TV was somehow responsible for his behaviour as opposed to, I don't know, his parents or someone similar, is frankly laughableQuote:
Maybe if he wasn't watching so much TV he wouldn't have such messed up Ideas on the value of Human life
You didn't mention this when you said you hope "they try him as an adult and melt the key."Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
True I didn't, Knee Jerk reaction I suppose. should have said they should do a psychological/Maturity evaluation and then try him based on the findingsQuote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
and if he is as mature as your average twelve year old then that would satisfy me that he knew precisely what he was doing and should be duly tried as such
TV is not directly responsible for his actions, although chances are his parents Idea of how to rear a child is plonk them in front of a TV to shut them up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
The point I was making was that TV had become so important to this child that he was prepared to kill so as not to have his enjoyment spoiled, for me that sounds like a serious obsession
perhaps "should have said they should do a psychological/Maturity evaluation and then try him according to the results of the psychological/maturity evaluation" would be better.Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
(Unless you've already made up your mind on the issue without having enough information to make a fair decision)
Practical impossibility really though isn't it? For one thing, if the kid is mature enough to appreciate the repercussions of his actions then he'll realise he needs to lie when assessed. Also, what parent/teacher/football coach could reasonably say that they knew that kid was not alone pure evil but knew precisely the depravity of his actions?Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
In other words I don't think there's much tinkering you can do with the law, and so we look to broader society to help... :( ie it's probably best not to think about it!
But anyway, I have done so the odd dreary Tuesday evening in November, alone, in a cold, dark room and generally have come to the realisation that the school system desperately lacks a 'life preparation, moral-teaching' string to its out of tune bow. Of course that would never stop accidents like this one, but would definitely ameliorate society as a whole. But I suppose that belongs more in the 'your ideal school system' thread, which I plaintively urge you to open. :)
Yep, I blame the parentsQuote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
Well D'uhQuote:
The point I was making was that TV had become so important to this child that he was prepared to kill so as not to have his enjoyment spoiled, for me that sounds like a serious obsession
But IMO with this bit here:
And this bit here:Quote:
Maybe if he wasn't watching so much TV he wouldn't have such messed up Ideas on the value of Human life.
You were trying to attach unfair blame to the "Evils of Television" ala (irony alert) the shock jocks on Sky News and the likeQuote:
you have to ask yourself is there not something wrong that when something is so all consuming that someone would kill a family member to enable himself to enjoy it uninterrupted.
Whoa thats weird, I just edited the post pretty much to what you're suggesting at the same time you were typing it . spooky :DQuote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
I was a bit flippant at the start of thread admittedly, Just got really worked up reading that.(maybe Risteard was right:( ) suppose what I meant was am Sick of seeing little scrotes getting off lightly because "Ah he's only a Nipper, give him a chance" mentality. I cant speak for The 12 year old concerned here because as osarasan fairly points out I don't have enough information, But lets say he's a member of a gang, string of juvie convictions, gun under his pillow etc. if this is the case should he still be triesd as a child?
This thread is going nowhere fast, but just to say, by your test, if he is found to be "as mature as your average twelve year old" then being "duly tried as such" surely means being tried as a juvenile; a fact that seems to have you up in arms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
If you read back over my post's you'll see that I said your average 12year old would fully understand the meaning of Death/Murder, When I said should be tried accordingly it was to this i was reffering. I believe that most teenagers are fully mature enough to be held accountable for there action's. (and before anyone points out that twelve is not a teenager I know but a few months either side doesn't make a whole heap of difference) and Law should duly reflect this.Quote:
Originally Posted by noby
think about it, look at 12 yearolds 20-50 years ago and look at them now, Big difference? I'd say so, I'd also say TV/internet have had a huge effect on this change for both good and bad
Yeah I know all too well but what 12 year old truely understands the consequences of their actions. They'd be very mature for their age if they did. I'm not excusing the fact that the kid killed the other one and he should be punished but locking him up for life is a bit harsh when the criminal is not a fully grown, fully mentally developed adult.Quote:
Originally Posted by Block G Raptor
I know Terry Venebles is topical at the moment but is he really capable of compelling a child to murder? Does the committee know?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
He's brought me to the point of homicide many times, so I'd be willing to take the stand against him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfie
As for the main point of this thread, he should be tried as a juvenile because he is one. Twelve year olds don't have a true value of life, hence why they are happy to jump off of cliffs into the sea without knowing how shallow the water is, why they are willing to walk along bridge railings with fast moving water below them, why they dart in out of moving traffic on bicycles and why they do numerous other things we all are afraid to do as we get older and realise how fragile we actually are
Someone's been watching Mickeybo and MeQuote:
Originally Posted by jebus
Dont forget robbing banks and hitch-hiking to Australia :D
in fairness i was up to some amount at the age of 12, its not like he's 6/7. should be tried as an adult after all he's either in/going into 1st yr in school. 12yr olds can tell right from wrong and a lot more mind you.Quote:
Originally Posted by superfrank
of course a 12yr old can understand what death is......
Hooray for you :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by gilberto_eire
WTF?!?! :DQuote:
should be tried as an adult after all he's either in/going into 1st yr in school.
You want to read over things before you submit them man
As a secondary school teacher myself, I have to disagree with what is posted in bold above. I work in a school where there is a large amount of students with social problems, poor moral values and very poor manners.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingdom hoop
Trust me, if kids are reared in this way, then it is very hard for a teacher to change his/her ways. You can teach them how to behave, treat other people or speak to their elders until the cows come home, but if the same is not being done at home then you are p*ssing against the wind.
These sort of moral teachings SHOULD IMO start at home.
Back on topic, its a very sad story. Whether the child should be convicted as an adult or a child is a thorny one, but one thing is for sure, 12 year olds today know a lot more than they did 15-20 years ago when I was growing up.
LTID, I have yet to see your reasoned (if thats possible) opinion on this topic. All you seem to be doing is nit picking other peoples posts, and quite childishly too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lim till i die
If it were a criminal offence to be really annoying, I would be convicting you as a child rather than an adult.
I would have thought the right opinion on whether a 12 year old is a child or an adult would be patently obvious??Quote:
Originally Posted by sullanefc
And if there was a law against poorly made attmpts at wit.................Quote:
If it were a criminal offence to be really annoying, I would be convicting you as a child rather than an adult
Lim till i die, I agree with sullanefc, your contributions in this thread have been close to worthless. Either knock the "witty" remarks on the head and try to input something of value, or stay out of the Current Affairs forum until you're able.
Back on top now please, everyone. Now means now, I don't want any responses to my post, whether positive or negative.
adam
If a 12 year old can be tried as an adult then they should have the vote, be able to consent to sex, should be out working etc. etc. You can't pick and choose. Either they are an adult or not.
[RUBBISH DELETED. --adam]
on topic.... and ya in our country a 12yr old would be going into 1st in secondary school if not already there..... 12 is a few yrs over the ''he's just a child'' crap IMO!
So you agree that an adult could have consensual sex with a 12 year old? After all "12 is a few yrs over the ''he's just a child'' crap"Quote:
Originally Posted by gilberto_eire
What 'he's just a child' crap? NO ones saying leave him off cos he's a child.Quote:
Originally Posted by gilberto_eire
But he is a child. There is no disputing this.
And so he should be tried as one.
Whether the sentencing for children is fair or harsh enough on some occasions is a separate matter.
He is a child.
Of course he is still a child. What I think most people are saying here is that 12 year olds nowadays are way more clued in than in years gone by.Quote:
Originally Posted by micls
That said, from my experience, they may act older, look older and dress older, deep down they are still immature by and large.
While an adult custodial sentence would neither be fair nor good for the boy, I would hope that he would get some serious phsychological councilling for a long time after this. Firstly to get his head around this incident but secondly to try and rectify his reasoning for doing this.
IMO a 12 year old SHOULD know the difference between right and wrong and a 12 year old that beats a baby to death with a baseball bat is seriously not right in the head.
its got nothing to do with all other things.... the only way he will get what he deserves is been tried as an adult, all ppl want is justice which can only be properly served if he is tried as one!Quote:
Originally Posted by BohsPartisan
Only in America.
As punishment why don't they get someone to beat him with a baseball bat. Show him what it's like.
More to the point whats a 12 year old doing babysitting?
It's got everything to do with 'all the other crap'. If we're going to say that a child has a proper reasoning on the value of life, then clearly they must have an understanding of the harms of substance abuse and sexual behaviour, and so anyone convicted of sexual assault on a minor (say a 49 year old man and a 13 year old girl) could ask for a retrial on the grounds that 12 year olds are now considered adultsQuote:
Originally Posted by gilberto_eire