Would you like to see Ireland take a stronger stance vs Israeli shelling & Airstrikes

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03/08/2006, 5:04 PM
Shelsman

Would you like to see Ireland take a stronger stance vs Israeli shelling & Airstrikes

I know there is a thread on this already, but what I want to know is this:

Would you like to see Ireland take a stronger stance vs Israeli shelling & Airstrikes?

I've been disguested myself that Bertie hasn't been more critical. I'm not saying that they should definitely push for an economic embargo on Israel but they should certainly have been making loud noises about it shortly after the Israelis started killing kids.

They can keep saying 'we didn't mean it', but every day they kill more civilians, and I certainly haven't heard them apologize for the civilian casualties yet.

If supermarkets were to put all the Israeli products in one corner so thatyou could see where they are I would certainly refuse to buy from it.

I'm not excusing the Lebanese / Hezbollah violence but if I saw families blown to pieces from artillery strikes and air strikes then I'd take up arms too -so they are increasing the support for Hezbollah. Israel's targeting of civilian infrastructure is a disgrace too.

After putting up the poll I had to think about this one a long time, but I eventually went for the first choice -Israel need to be told that the world does not accept the careless way in which they have inflicted civilian casualties and destroyed civilian infrastructure. They must act responsibly in war as well as peace.
03/08/2006, 6:20 PM
dahamsta

Ireland should take a stronger stance on everything. Ahern's unwillingness to comment on any topic substantially makes us more Bush's poodle than Blair or anyone else, particularly given our economic power.

On the subject of polls, knock it on the head for a while now please. Mods are allowed to use them as a priviliege, but I don't want to see them overused.

adam
03/08/2006, 10:05 PM
Dr.Nightdub

Voted yes to embargo but I would've preferred if there'd been an option "Yes - and our government should supply missiles to Hezbollah"
04/08/2006, 1:12 AM
Beavis

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

Voted yes to embargo but I would've preferred if there'd been an option "Yes - and our government should supply missiles to Hezbollah"

Here Here
04/08/2006, 11:34 AM
pete

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

Voted yes to embargo but I would've preferred if there'd been an option "Yes - and our government should supply missiles to Hezbollah"

I presume that was a joke.

:rolleyes:
04/08/2006, 11:59 AM
BohsPartisan

Well we have arms dealers (TimTech par example) who supply them to fairly dodgy regimes.
04/08/2006, 1:10 PM
Student Mullet

TimTech build armoured vehicles, there's a bit of a difference between them and missiles.
04/08/2006, 1:23 PM
drinkfeckarse

Israels response has been OTT but lets not forget that innocent Israeli's have perished also.

How did this start, is all this stemming from the kidnapping of the Israeli soldiers and was it Israel who fired the first missiles??
04/08/2006, 1:32 PM
BohsPartisan

Thats a bit of a simplistic approach, as if this is some new dispute that only began with the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers. This crisis in the middle east can only be looked at as being part of the wider crisis that has existed since the foundation of Israel as a state. Don't know if it has been mentioned on this thread but a good book to read on the subject is The Iron Wall by Avi Schlaim (not sure if I spelled that correctly) who is an Israeli historian but very balanced.
04/08/2006, 2:27 PM
lopez

People should take it upon themselves to boycott zionist goods. You don't need the EU to say a thing (they'd start the usual oh those European anti-semites sh*te if they did anyway). Fruit, veg and herbs - why? I don't know when there are plenty producers not only within the EU but in former EU states' colonies - is the biggest source of Israeli goods in British shops to target. Sainsburys I've notices have nothing but Israeli herbs. Tesco's who are big in Ireland were founded by a wanted gerrymandering criminal's father that the Zionists have refused to send back to Britain, so wouldn't be surprised if they are the same. I've just avoided them (Chavsda on the other hand seems to have replaced ZOP coriander with home grown stuff the little nazis :eek: but their food is poor) but I think it's about time I registered some sort of protest with the manager of these stores that I want non zionist goods or else I'm going to avoid them.

Hit the b*stards in the pockets!
04/08/2006, 2:52 PM
BohsPartisan

Yeah all TESCO's herbs are of Israeli origin.
04/08/2006, 3:00 PM
pete

Hezbollah are terrorists just like the 9/11 or London bombers so deserve no protection.

I believe however Israels response has been over the top & possibly guilty of deliberately targetting UN, journalists & civilians.

I do not think the term Zionist is appropriate here as is deliberately inflammatory.
04/08/2006, 3:00 PM
drinkfeckarse

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Thats a bit of a simplistic approach, as if this is some new dispute that only began with the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers. This crisis in the middle east can only be looked at as being part of the wider crisis that has existed since the foundation of Israel as a state.

I'm aware of the longer term history. I asked simply because the latest episode of violence seems to have escalated at an alarming rate. For a number of reasons I have seen very little TV for the last couple of months, therefore I am not 100% sure if the kidnapping was the spark for the latest spell of trouble.....
04/08/2006, 4:34 PM
lopez

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

I do not think the term Zionist is appropriate here as is deliberately inflammatory.

Inflamatory to whom?

Zionism: movement establishing and developing Jewish state

Quit the sensitivity. You know there are a lot worse things that these people are called. And before you also go along the old 'you must be some sort of anti-semite' line, many orthodox Jews actually think the state of Israel has as much right to exist as Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. As one site claims: 'There are in fact many Jewish movements, groups and organizations whose ideology regarding Zionism and the so-called "State of Israel" is that of the unadulterated Torah position that any form of Zionism is heresy and that the existence of the so-called "State of Israel" is illegitimate.'

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

http://www.nkusa.org/
04/08/2006, 4:52 PM
Shelsman

Quote:

Originally Posted by lopez

People should take it upon themselves to boycott zionist goods...........Hit the b*stards in the pockets!

I agree, I'd be doing the same and am not aware that I have bought anything Israeli since the excaltion in violence but what disappoints me is that there is no political party ( like the Greens ) outside the Tescos of Ireland with Banners asking people ( making them aware of the possibility ) of not buying Israeli goods.

On that note, it's time for me to email the Green Party.

Please see

http://www.greenparty.ie/en/news/lat...lebanon_crisis

Right, email gone then to info@greenparty.ie
04/08/2006, 5:37 PM
Saint Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr.Nightdub

Voted yes to embargo but I would've preferred if there'd been an option "Yes - and our government should supply missiles to Hezbollah"

jesus Doc, do you not realise that these people are extreme isalmists who consider us all infidels?? If they were provided the ammunition to destroy Israel, where do you think they will turn next??

They have implemented sharia law in the de facto state of southern Lebanon. These are not the people to be given such weapons, just as much as their fruit cake, allah loving buddies in tehran.

would we allow missiles to be aimed on our sovereign territory? No we would not. This struggle is as much about values and way of life as it is religion. And I for one would be more open to the near-european outlook of the Jews in Israel, rather than arabs with their heads up their arses
04/08/2006, 6:00 PM
soccerc

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Tom

jesus Doc, do you not realise that these people are extreme isalmists who consider us all infidels?? If they were provided the ammunition to destroy Israel, where do you think they will turn next??

They have implemented sharia law in the de facto state of southern Lebanon. These are not the people to be given such weapons, just as much as their fruit cake, allah loving buddies in tehran.

would we allow missiles to be aimed on our sovereign territory? No we would not. This struggle is as much about values and way of life as it is religion. And I for one would be more open to the near-european outlook of the Jews in Israel, rather than arabs with their heads up their arses

Jeez Tom

A week with an isreali bird and you are indoctrinated.:)

BTW What's a "near european" outlook?
04/08/2006, 6:11 PM
Marked Man

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

Hezbollah are terrorists just like the 9/11 or London bombers so deserve no protection.

Hezbollah are terrorists just like the 1916 IRA were terrorists, just like the ANC were terrorists. They are a resistance group brought into being by the most recent Israeli occupation of Lebanon. It's also a myth that they are only radicalized muslims. See the link below, from the NY times (not noted for its anti-Israel stance).

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/03/opinion/03pape.html
05/08/2006, 1:57 AM
BohsPartisan

If the IRA kidnapped some British soldiers, should the Brits bomb Dublin?
05/08/2006, 5:08 PM
Marked Man

Or would they just help and fund a loyalist group to do it for them? Oh wait...
05/08/2006, 8:02 PM
anto eile

Quote:

Originally Posted by pete

Hezbollah are terrorists just like the 9/11 or London bombers so deserve no protection.

I believe however Israels response has been over the top & possibly guilty of deliberately targetting UN, journalists & civilians.

I do not think the term Zionist is appropriate here as is deliberately inflammatory.

terrorists arent just non governmental paramilitary groups.
israle kill innocent children without mercy. that makes israel a terrorist as well. israel is scum
you can examine all the reasons behind this "war" (slaughter would be more apt), but one of the many reasons behind the middle east conflict is the british government. they basically planted jews in palestine,called it israel,claimed theyer doing it to help the jews etc etc. if the brits were so concerned for the jews in the wake of WW2 why didnt they give them a chunk of surrey/essex/shropshire etc??
most israleis are american or russian,and a hell of a lot of ethiopians.for example the russians were converted to judaism hundreds of years ago and have no ethnic or historic link whatsoever with palestine/israel. it would be like if i converted to judaism tomorrow and claimed a god given right to own land in palestine.
israel is a vile nazi racist regime.its scum.

btw ive no time for militant islamists either. id like to see a palestinian atheist resistance to israel, as opposed to the likes of hizbollah/hamas who are very muslim i their beliefs

some might view it as an oxymoron, but israel itself is a cause of anti-semitism.its aggressive zionist policies lead neutral people towards anti semitism
imagine if ireland handed out irish citizenship to catholics from any country in the world? thats what israel does. you can become an israeli citizen simply based on religion. poxy country
06/08/2006, 12:59 PM
lopez

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Tom

...I for one would be more open to the near-european outlook of the Jews in Israel, rather than arabs with their heads up their arses

We all share your concerns here. I don't particularly want to see a new state where political dissent is suppressed, innocent people are executed regularly, the purchase of alcohol is outlawed, where religious extremism and bigotry reigns, where men are obliged to wear stupid hats and their women, who are second class citizens, are forced to wear ridiculous, inappropriate clothing.

But I don't think Hezbollah wants to turn Palestine into Texas. :D
07/08/2006, 10:35 AM
Saint Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by lopez

But I don't think Hezbollah wants to turn Palestine into Texas. :D

brilliant :D
07/08/2006, 1:36 PM
osarusan

Quote:

Originally Posted by lopez

But I don't think Hezbollah wants to turn Palestine into Texas. :D

Quality!!
20/08/2006, 11:11 AM
ccfcman

Why aren't people getting worked up about the Hizbollah battering civilians :/

My on/off girlfriend spent 3 weeks in Israel @ family and had to come home early because her house was missing a wall :/

You'd swear all Israelis are evil the way the Socialist Bandwagon Party go on :/
20/08/2006, 11:22 AM
Bald Student

How come there's no pro-Israel choice in the poll?
20/08/2006, 1:30 PM
1 9 2 8

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Thats a bit of a simplistic approach, as if this is some new dispute that only began with the kidnapping of Israeli soldiers. .

They weren't kidnapped they are POWs. The Israelis are the biggest terrorist in this war
22/08/2006, 8:54 AM
BohsPartisan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Student

How come there's no pro-Israel choice in the poll?

There is. Its called "No".
22/08/2006, 10:56 AM
Bald Student

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

There is. Its called "No".

I'm going to have to disagree there. The question is should Ireland take a strong stance and the options are a strong, anti-Israel stance or a weak stance. The poll is biased.
22/08/2006, 2:41 PM
BohsPartisan

Strong anti, weak anti or no stance. To not take a stance implies support for Israel. Why would you be Pro-Israel on this matter?
22/08/2006, 2:49 PM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by BohsPartisan

Strong anti, weak anti or no stance. To not take a stance implies support for Israel. Why would you be Pro-Israel on this matter?

"Would you like to see Ireland take a stronger stance vs Israeli shelling & Airstrikes"
No would imply that you support the current stance. You could be in favour of the shelling, and want to say that. Why would you be pro-Israel? I don't know - it seems to be a popular stance with Fox News at the moment.
22/08/2006, 2:52 PM
Bald Student

A person who disagrees with you would say that not taking a stance implies support for Hezbollah.

I don't need to be pro or anti Israel to object to a biassed poll.
22/08/2006, 5:02 PM
Shelsman

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bald Student

I don't need to be pro or anti Israel to object to a biassed poll.

Even if there were 1000 answers to choose from there would still be some people looking for 1001. You have to accept it as a 'general' question and view the results as a 'general' answer. Besides, if there were too many answers it would be very difficult to see what the general/overall feeling/thoughts were from foot.ie users on the issue. If you don't like the poll or the thread then simply do not participate, ignore it or create a different thread.

:rolleyes:
22/08/2006, 5:24 PM
John83

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shelsman

Even if there were 1000 answers to choose from there would still be some people looking for 1001. You have to accept it as a 'general' question and view the results as a 'general' answer. Besides, if there were too many answers it would be very difficult to see what the general/overall feeling/thoughts were from foot.ie users on the issue. If you don't like the poll or the thread then simply do not participate, ignore it or create a different thread.

:rolleyes:

To bring this into context:

Do you think that convicted violent criminals should increase their use of you as a sex toy:
a) Yes, we should insist on it
b) Yes, but we should just suggest it
c) No

Selecting no wouldn't be a strong enough answer to that for most people. Especially for those who would like to see it decrease or stop.
22/08/2006, 6:11 PM
Schumi

Quote:

Originally Posted by John83

To bring this into context:

Do you think that convicted violent criminals should increase their use of you as a sex toy:
a) Yes, we should insist on it
b) Yes, but we should just suggest it
c) No

Selecting no wouldn't be a strong enough answer to that for most people. Especially for those who would like to see it decrease or stop.

I expect most of us would prefer that it continued not to happen but I can't speak for everyone's situation. :D
23/08/2006, 8:29 AM
BohsPartisan

Personally I would have liked an option for the trade unions to take a strong stance blacking Israeli goods (which are bloody everywhere - check the labels- fruit veg and herbs particularly) like the blacking of South African goods in the 80's but its not my poll. I picked the one that was closest to what I'd like to see.
24/08/2006, 8:52 AM
BohsPartisan

Syria is a secular state very unlike Iran.
25/08/2006, 9:59 AM
Strabane_Harp

As for Hezbollah being radical islamists, thats far from the truth. There about as Islamist as the PLO are. They may be Muslims but they have support now from the Christian community in Lebabon, after the recent ceasefire the Cardinal in Beirut has praised and blessed the Hezbollah fighters for there protection of the Christians in south lebanon from Isreali attack.

This conflict wasnt started by kidnap of any soldiers, Isreal has been continually bombing and assassinating members of Hezbollah for months. the same as they do in Gaza
25/08/2006, 10:49 AM
Paddy Ramone

Quote:

Originally Posted by drinkfeckarse

Israels response has been OTT but lets not forget that innocent Israeli's have perished also.

A disproportionate amount of the inncocent Israeli victims were ethnic Palestinians or "Israeli Arabs" as the Zionists call them. Not as many air raid shelters for them.
25/08/2006, 11:06 AM
Paddy Ramone

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saint Tom

jesus Doc, do you not realise that these people are extreme isalmists who consider us all infidels?? If they were provided the ammunition to destroy Israel, where do you think they will turn next??

They have implemented sharia law in the de facto state of southern Lebanon. These are not the people to be given such weapons, just as much as their fruit cake, allah loving buddies in tehran

Your Islamaphobic comments are disgraceful. You must have been bainwashed by the Zionist media. Many Muslims respect the Christian and Jewish religions as "religions of the Book".

Jesus is the second most important prophet in Islam after Muhammed and Muslims even believe in the Virgin Birth. Allah is the Arabic for God and is also used by Arabic speaking Christians. You could even call George Bush an "Allah lover". It's the same God (not taking into account the doctrine of the Holy Trintity).

Jews and Muslims and believe in the same God and most Muslim and Christian Palestinians are descended from the Jews who lived there 2000 years ago.

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