Not really good news for the peace process. I can't see them returning to violence but its a huge setback.
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Not really good news for the peace process. I can't see them returning to violence but its a huge setback.
it had nothing to do with the sinn fein/ira criminal acts no :rolleyes:
no huge surprise in many ways. its a pity unionism couldn't have taken a leap of faith 2 or 3 years ago, when it would have transformed the whole thing. the vacuum thats existed since has really damaged the whole process, and this is the unfortunate result. that said, the republican movement should really have gone the extra mile and given them the bloody photos. this is what happens when you get two extreme, pig-headed movements squaring up to each other
They're too busy working out what to do with all their cash to worry about getting rid of their weapons ;)
two possible reasons:Quote:
Originally Posted by davros
1. It was a thoroughly professional job, they covered their tracks well and the RUC knows its them but can't prove it.
2. The RUC made that statement for political reasons, and has no evidence of any kind to prove it.
both equally possible IMO
Are you Ian Paisley Jr in diguise? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by exile
SO ITS OK FOR A POLITICAL PARTY TO SAY MURDER IS NOT A CRIME :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by dancinpants
Same warning as usual here: Keep it civil and non-personal or I'll lock it. Exile, turn off your CAPS LOCK please, it just makes you look like Ian Paisley.
adam[size=1] /who can tick people off and stay on topic[/size]
I think theres a big difference between knowing that the IRA carried out the robbery & proving which members did it which is probably why the PSNI made their announcement. They also have a Police Board in NI (more than we have here) which i'm sure oversees such announcements.
I think its time for everyone on this isalnd to realise the pariahs that the IRA are. Maybe they had some justification in the past for their acts (don't need to revisit) but what exactly do they need to protect with their weapons in 2005???
I'd be interested to know how many criminals vore for SF...
And what about the people they are 'negotiating' with? Illegal invasion of another country, scrapping the Geneva convention whenever it suits them, bombing of civilians.Quote:
Originally Posted by exile
[Attack the post, not the poster. Any more personal attacks will result in a one week ban. --adam]
Its exactly people like good old exile who will drive Republicans back to full scale war. I mean why bother with politics if with a massive political mandate you are excluded from talks and ignored ?? There is division in Republican circles anyway, the media tend to turn a blind eye on it for political reasons. The SF knockers are simply proving to the Pro Adams/McGuinness republicans that they are banging their heads against a brick wall.Quote:
Originally Posted by exile
I mean The P.IRA leadership actually surrendered weapons for all this, unthinkable in Republican ideology. But sure that still wasnt enough, they wanted humiliation too. Whilst there was never mention of Loyalist, Unionist or British State weapons.
dortie the only issue i have is with sinn frein/ira is the fact that they keep commiting crimes and what they see as crime.Quote:
Originally Posted by dortie
any political party that says the murder of a mother of 10 children is not a crime has some serious moral issues
Surely the DUP as biggest NI party can talk to whoever they want?
SF may be the biggest Nationalist Party but they only got 30 odd percent of total voters so are still in the minority. The DSLP probably have a lot in common amoung the 70% than the 30% SF vote.
btw the only NI Assembly politicians are the only people who can solve their own problems. There is nothing anyone in the Republic or UK can do about it.
Its disconserting to see that alot of people in the south are as ignorant to this situation as the Brits.
Think pulling out of the decommissioning is deffinatley an act to keep those in the IRA who fed up of the peace process, happy. There are deffinatley splits froming in the IRA and vague mumurs of the ceasefire ending which is still (thank you God) a long long way off.
I think that the bank raid was the hardliners showing that they are not going to support talks which get the Republican moevement nowhere (not sanctioned by the army council) and in response the army council have stopped any further splits by taking the deal off the table-keeping the hardliners in line whilst putting the peace process at a stalemate.
As a result this withdrawal may benifit the peace process in the long run as it is a measure of preventing splits which could mean a step toward the ceasefire ending.
I doubt the British are happy about the situation either-they want to pull out their troops, presumably to send to Iraq or even so they are ready for when the murmurs of a US/UK/(Israel?)-Iran war evolve into something more.
(Though effectivly this move can benifit them in the long term-any rise in violence by the IRA may result in moire troops being deployed-seriously stretching the British millatery with their current commitments in Iraq and Afghanistan).
Yeah the ignorance of a lot of people from the south is unbelievable when it comes to the six counties. There is also the view of guilty until proved innocent when it comes to SF and the Republican movement from these same peopleQuote:
Originally Posted by dancinpants
Mr Exile,With regard to your concerns about the murder of Jean mcConville.Quote:
Originally Posted by exile
As far as I remember as part of the peace process the IRA were asked to apologise for all the hurt and loss of life they had caused in the troubles. They issued this apology a number of years ago with the hope it would help bring the peace process to a positive conclusion.It was accepted at the time by all involved in the process and I would serioulsy question the wisdom of bringing up issues which have been dealt with at this time. The people who who continue to bring up these issues have dealt a mighty blow to hopes of a lasting peace in this country. History I feel won't remember most of the present 26 county politicans kindly.
Not directed at any members here but i've got the impression that the further you go from the border that the stronger the support for the IRA "struggle". Like big 'RA support in Kerry & maybe even bigger for some people in the US. Suppose its easy to support a "war" if not living it.
Are the republican community discriminated like the bad days? I doubt it so why the need for a private army?
Thanks for re-iterating my previous point!!! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by pete
i see your point they apoligised fair enough they apoligised because they felt they have hurt people fair enough againQuote:
Originally Posted by wakenuppaddy
But they dont see the whats criminal about the murder people like jean mcconville or the punishment beatings they regulary dish out that is not moraley acceptable of a democratic party
C'mere a minute theres alot the British goverment haven't apologised for - you don't deem them as criminal. Why is this? Are you also going to try and tell me that the Irish Government isn't corrupt? Ireland is fast becoming "home of the tribunal"!!! - is that morally acceptable?Quote:
Originally Posted by exile
Its really easy to pick on the easy target and forget everything else isn't it exile?
you shouldnt make assumptions dancinQuote:
Originally Posted by dancinpants
ya i do i hold the brits more so responsible for the mess than anyone else and tatcher should be held for war crimes
but tell me dancin why do you think sinn fein /ira dont see the murder of jean mcconville as a criminal act? do you even see it as a criminal act
I have a question, and this isn't being smart either - but I'm curious, are you related in some way to the late Jean McConville? If you are, then I'll understand why you constantly bring the ladys name up.
[QUOTE=dancinpants]you also going to try and tell me that the Irish Government isn't corrupt? Ireland is fast becoming "home of the tribunal"!!! - is that morally acceptable?
QUOTE]
wow your a shrewd guy your right again :rolleyes: irish politicans are corrupt
but somehow you seem to think its ok to compare walking a mother of 10 up a beach and putting a bullet in her head and taking a bribe :rolleyes:
you still havent answered my question :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by dancinpants
Well, to be honest, what you have just said is a sickening thought I don't dispute that. But (if my memory serves me correctly)she'd still be alive today if the Security Forces didn't put her life in jeopardy TWICE by asking her to spy. She was found out the first time and given a warning then the cops got to her again and forced her to resume spying.
What sort of police force forces a mother of 10 to be an informant in the first place?
I don't understand this logic tbh. If it's "fair enough" that they apologised, shouldn't that be an end to it? If it's not an end to it - and it seems pretty obvious you feel that it isn't - why say "fair enough"? Isn't that a rough equivalent of the traditional political "with all due respect"?Quote:
Originally Posted by exile
adam
my apoligise i was being sarcastic should have made it more obviousQuote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
Ok, so the apology wasn't enough then. What would be enough?
[EDIT: I'm not being smart btw, I just don't get it. Will anything be enough? If not, should we just toss the peace process aside and let these lunatics start killing each other again? Let people like Paisley say "I told you so"?]
adam
for them to give up criminality, punishment beatings spying on politicians, etcQuote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
Fair enough. Some might say that's what they're trying to do, but the politicians are derailing that process in an attempt to feed their own egos and careers. And what about the loyalists? Why isn't there a comment in your sig about them? Do you support their criminality, their punishments beatings, both of which are far more widespread than on the provo side? As to spying on politicians, well, that cuts both ways, unless you think the bug Gerry Adams held up a while back was a plant or something...Quote:
Originally Posted by exile
Christ, you're making me sound like an IRA sympathiser, which is a bit much coming from a treehugger like me. I just get ticked off when I see one-sided accusations and commentary being thrown around. It's all a bit Ian Paisley for my liking...
adam
your right i should make it more clear thati feel the same utter contempt for the unionists and british army up there as well as sinn fein/ira but my whole point being is that they are not trying to win votes down here but sinn fein/ira are and political party that condones murder well speaks for itself really.Quote:
Originally Posted by dahamsta
By the way they've (IRA) just put out another statement via the television, saying that both British and Irish Governments are to blame, and that it is a serious state of affairs, or words to that effect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dancinpants
Well said !!!
Can you quote me one place other than An Phoblacht where those allegations are substantiated? ...or is it one of those "dogs in the street" facts? I have read quite a lot on the troubles/the struggle/whatever -in my time and I've yet to read a single journalist who produced a shred of credible evidence that Jean McConville was a spy.Quote:
Originally Posted by dancinpants
So the IRA -in it's infinite mercy -gave Jean a yellow card eh? That'd be a first for them then.
Jean McConville was in all likelyhood murdered as a deterent to others who might offer medical assistance, succour or any other petty comfort to a dying member of the security forces. This "spying for the peelers" thing stinks of exactly what it is ...steaming hot horse caca!!!
What are ya on about here, Eanna?I think there could be huge divisions in the ira ready to come to the surface.Quote:
Originally Posted by Éanna
The DUP can proudly claim responsibility for finally getting rid of the fudge re decommisioning. Fudge and ambiguity in political documents are essential where there are polar opposites but if the GFA was on course all the time, the ira would be gone by now. Its not an ideal world.
I don't get the idea that they know it was the ira without knowing which members it was. I mean they don't go around in tracksuits with ira written on the back. Hugh Ordes statement was very misguided, badly thought out and ill-timed. I mean what did he hope to gain from it like?
Stick to your job.
Not wanting to trivialise the issues being debated but thought great Martyn Turner cartoon in the IT today sums up the recent IRA topics.
Ah theyre right, that ******* Ahern blamed them straight away for the Northern Bank robbery. Sooner the better theres a General Election so we can get rid of that *****
i mean when trimble had the chance to make a leap of faith, and move the whole thing forward, but gave into the likes of donaldson etc and went off singing no surrender. that was what started all this crap, and its whats left us in the situationthe process is in now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Risteard
Didnt see it, any chance of scanning and linking it ?Quote:
Originally Posted by pete