Italy V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 23rd June 2016 - Euro 2016 Group E

Time for a new thread.

Random thoughts:

- Italy incentivised to put Sweden out by losing!

- Still not certain a narrow win will see us through, but we'll know by kick-off.

- Walters still touch and go.

- Ireland has never won a competitive match that Shane Long has started (just a statistic)

Team talk? I saw this on Twitter:

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/on...f087e895ad2333

Clark, McCarthy, Wes and long out.

Keogh, Quinn, McClean and Murphy in.

Brady to play Hoolahan's role in a 4411, where he looked very comfortable on Saturday.

The article starts by being quite clear that it’ll be 4 changes, then suggests it’s speculation (“up to four changes”, “Keogh or Duffy...”) so pinch of salt required.

Italy to make 9 changes.

The problem with start starting the wrong team/formation/tactics is that when it blows up in your face, if you properly fix it, it's tantamount to saying you erred in the first place, whereas if you don't really fix it then what's the point anyway?

I'd start

Westwood,
Christie, Keogh, Duffy, Ward
McGeady, Quinn, Whelan, Brady
Murphy Keane

for no other reason than for the craic of it. Because that seems to be how Martin O'Neill decides things.

The42.ie suggesting this slightly mental starting team:
Randolph
Coleman Keogh Duffy Christie
Quinn Hendrick Brady
Hoolahan McGeady
Long

http://www.the42.ie/martin-oneill-mu...33538-Jun2016/

I think it's more likely to be:
Randolph
Coleman O'Shea Duffy Ward
Whelan
Hendrick Quinn
Brady
Long Murphy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by passinginterest

The42.ie suggesting this slightly mental starting team:
Randolph
Coleman Keogh Duffy Christie
Quinn Hendrick Brady
Hoolahan McGeady
Long

http://www.the42.ie/martin-oneill-mu...33538-Jun2016/

I think it's more likely to be:
Randolph
Coleman O'Shea Duffy Ward
Whelan
Hendrick Quinn
Brady
Long Murphy

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I like that 42.ie team! Must look that up; do they say that's what they'd pick, or what they feel will be picked?

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Originally Posted by Kingdom

I like that 42.ie team! Must look that up; do they say that's what they'd pick, or what they feel will be picked?

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What they'd pick, I think that midfield would be very light weight going in against a tough Italian side. Apparently the pitch is atrocious in Lille too, I wonder does that help us a bit? Gives justification to playing a direct game anyway.

Italy have been playing five across the middle so far in the tournament, I'm not sure we want to let them outnumber us in the middle of the park

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-34813540.html

Stephen Hunt bullish about Wednesday. Spirit of 2009.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

- Still not certain a narrow win will see us through, but we'll know by kick-off.

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We virtually are to be fair, only one of the following needs to happen for a narrow win to be good enough:

England to win
Germany to win
Turkey to win/draw
Hungary to win/draw
Iceland/Austria draw

The odds of none of those happening on a 5 way accumulator should be fairly long.

Thanks Morbo.

I wouldn't want to be holding out for any of the last 3! Portugal needs to beat Hungary, Czechs need to beat Turkey, and I never like waiting for a draw in any match.

Yeah I'll start getting nervous if both England and Germany fail to win. Would be incredibly bad luck if we went out on 4 points though.

I hold out no hope for us at all. THe Italians that come in aren't going to be much better.

I honestly believed before the Belgian game we would beat Italy, they are two completely different teams, and Italy would be able contain Belgium no problem, our individual mistakes cost us, I feel sorry for Mon and Keane and the other players, but a few lads just haven't been at the races physically and mentally, and all the hard work has been undone because of this. Belgium have a strong, fast counter attacking team with great individuals and skill, they are full of trickery and also strength up front, however its containable with a very solid defence and midfield. Having 4 of the backline(goalie included) playing continuously together makes this(solid defence) much easier to achieve. I felt we were at 6s and 7s the last day at times. So that was my initial confidence for beating Italy, they could always get a good result against Belgium because their strenght is what negates a team like Belgium. And i felt that although their defence is good we could handle anything they could throw at us(which being honest looking at sweden game) offensively as they are pretty impotent upfront, and dont have the pace to expose us in the same way belgium could.

But now I just feel even if we scored or went ahead, we have a mental fragility that would see us concede again. I put this down to having no real leaders and no real winners, who are used to holding out and having the experience required at that level to compose and control, communicate and order/dictate to those around him.

Keane also made a good point of having players who are playing 2 games a week at a high level htroughout the season in terms of being at a high level, that we aren't there and its showing. I think this is also true.

I liked Keane's comment about courage to look for the ball and knowing by a player's eyes if he really wants it. We joked about it here years ago, how I'd scream for the ball knowing full well I had deliberately snookered myself so I couldn't possibly receive it!

We don't have people who really want it, not enough anyway. It's a basic part of being a midfielder. I've always admired Gibson's ability to receive and protect the ball. At one point McCarthy's first touch went ten feet into the air on Saturday! Enough McCarthy bashing though. I read on Joe.ie earlier that McCarthy's problem for Ireland is Whelan. Whelan has had a good tournament I think but he and McCarthy crowd each other out. Maybe that's true. Either way we need someone "busy" in the middle. I suspect Quinn and Hendrick will be asked to do that and Brady will be asked to really come of age and lay down a new role for himself in this team, one he'll carry into the WC campaign.

Fresh legs and ideas required. Sometimes when a team is in a rut a manager changes keeper just for the sake of making a change. Did O'Neill do this at Sunderland? Anyway, that'd be a good place to start. I'd be surprised if there aren't 4 changes, 5 even.

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I liked Keane's comment about courage to look for the ball and knowing by a player's eyes if he really wants it. We joked about it here years ago, how I'd scream for the ball knowing full well I had deliberately snookered myself so I couldn't possibly receive it!

We don't have people who really want it, not enough anyway. It's a basic part of being a midfielder. I've always admired Gibson's ability to receive and protect the ball. At one point McCarthy's first touch went ten feet into the air on Saturday! Enough McCarthy bashing though. I read on Joe.ie earlier that McCarthy's problem for Ireland is Whelan. Whelan has had a good tournament I think but he and McCarthy crowd each other out. Maybe that's true. Either way we need someone "busy" in the middle. I suspect Quinn and Hendrick will be asked to do that and Brady will be asked to really come of age and lay down a new role for himself in this team, one he'll carry into the WC campaign.

Fresh legs and ideas required. Sometimes when a team is in a rut a manager changes keeper just for the sake of making a change. Did O'Neill do this at Sunderland? Anyway, that'd be a good place to start. I'd be surprised if there aren't 4 changes, 5 even.

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Sorry, I'm interested in reading this but it did make me laugh - I'm pretty sure someone could construct a visual depiction of how every problem in Irish football can be traced back to Glenn Whelan.

Bring on the changes though. It would be really refreshing to see and Ireland manager say to the surrounding squad: 'You guys are good enough to come in an make an impact. The others blew it, now this is your chance to shine.' Stephen Quinn, Daryl Murphy, Shane Duffy, whoever - they couldn't help but be inspired by that. Again, if Northern Ireland can do it, why can't we? That's why there's a 23-man squad.

I was laughed at on here when I said a couple of years ago that Wales are well above us. They've shown it in qualifying and they have shown it at the euros now too.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I was laughed at on here when I said a couple of years ago that Wales are well above us. They've shown it in qualifying and they have shown it at the euros now too.

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posts or it didn't happen.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I was laughed at on here when I said a couple of years ago that Wales are well above us. They've shown it in qualifying and they have shown it at the euros now too.

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a couple of years ago?

Tardelli's had some interesting things to say about our players.

Initially, from the headline (Tardelli questions football intellect of Irish players) I thought he would be teeing off in a fairly nasty, bitter way. But it's actually fairly measured and observational. Some great words for Hendrick, O'Shea and Brady too.

Thought this line was fascinating.

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Originally Posted by Marco Tardelli

They conceded two of their three goals on counters. It seems like an enormous paradox, but for them it’s normal to play without stopping to think. They have great qualities in terms of character and physical build, a great drive to learn, and not very much attention to tactics. They always want to play, even when they’re training. So we had to invent new ways of getting them to practice tactics even as they played.

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Reminds me quite a bit of what was said in the wake of Brian Kerr, that he couldn't get the players to sit still for any length of time to do video analysis and look at tactics.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

I was laughed at on here when I said a couple of years ago that Wales are well above us. They've shown it in qualifying and they have shown it at the euros now too.

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I've no idea what was said or if people laughed.

For me (and I'd say anyone), Wales were truly reborn under Speed but dipped again after Coleman came in. Nearly 2 years ago they needed 2 late goals to overcome Andorra and then grinded out a couple of good results to "get into" the group. They pressed on well but then tailed off again at the end and their pre-tournaments results (almost always irrelevant) weren't great.

It was thought they were a team of 1 superstar and 10 good pros. Bale's contribution to their goal tally backed this up somewhat, but it was clear to me they had good quality in Ramsey and Allen as well and leaders in players like Williams, Ledley and Hennessy. All in all, a very good set of things to have.

What wasn't clear to me was just how good Joe Allen can be at this level. He was brilliant last night.

For all the talk of us carrying injuries into the tournament, Ledley broke his leg in May FFS.

I heard Keane on the OTB repeat this morning. I thought he dealt with the line of questioning re the performance of individuals, of the team, and of the coaching staff quite well deflecting the issue on account of the chronological issue of reviewing/previewing that comes with tournament football.

He was reluctant to name any player that played poorly, or anyone who might come in, but did discuss to a certain level. However there was no analysis at all of the coaching staff and their performance. I feel that he was giving the coaching team a free pass in this situation, removing the pressure., although I am probably somewhat biased given I think they are more culpable than anyone.

Also, there was an interview with Michael O'Neill on how to deal with Germany, and had he sought advice from MrtnON: he had, and was told get as many players behind the ball as possible. Quelle surprise!

I'm struggling to be optimistic after that last performance. I just felt we looked really abject and McCarthy epitomized this through his failure to press the Belgians.

Are people all thinking that we need to pick Murphy to obtain a result by any means possible? Not that there are much other forward options but that didn't work against the Scots last June when Murphy was coming off the back of the best season of his career. The past one was filled with more injuries than goals. However, it is clear that it is MON sees him as an option, having not picked Kevin Doyle.

Very worried about this match as there will be some hungry Italian players entering the side.

The odds are against it but you've got to see the positives. I think O'Neill is planning for a tough slog of a first hour with Long and Wes off the bench to add something later on. I think Craven Cottage will be the template. The lino's flag kept us in the game on a couple of occasions but it was still a good combative performance that should have yielded a win. Quinn missed a late sitter and Long could have scored twice.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

http://www.independent.ie/sport/socc...-34813540.html

Stephen Hunt bullish about Wednesday. Spirit of 2009.

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Good auld Hunty, always the optimist, puts in a great set piece cross too.

As long as we keep Calamity Clark and the awful Keogh on the bench, and play Duffa, then we will look more solid at the back.

Despite having a tactically poor management team, I kinda fancy us to get something from this game.

And they said Gio, had no plan B!

to be honest 2 points or worse even 1 is not a good return when looking back on the group.

But we can't really blame oneill for the individual errors, oneill builds up that trust with his players its what they strive on, the trust and belief he places in them, it usually works for him and worked against Germany, but they let him down, especially clark being given the chance. McCarthy so far has been the best confidence trickster I've seen in a long time.

It's just disappointing that an ok performance against Belgium was excruciatingly put to the sword like that. BUt thats what you expect at that level.

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Originally Posted by paul_oshea

to be honest 2 points or worse even 1 is not a good return when looking back on the group.

But we can't really blame oneill for the individual errors, oneill builds up that trust with his players its what they strive on, the trust and belief he places in them, it usually works for him and worked against Germany, but they let him down, especially clark being given the chance. McCarthy so far has been the best confidence trickster I've seen in a long time.

It's just disappointing that an ok performance against Belgium was excruciatingly put to the sword like that. BUt thats what you expect at that level.

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That’s why we’re targeting 4 :)

I’d rank ourselves as on a par with Sweden, and inferior to Italy and Belgium. So one point is the expected return. We might have got 3 from Sweden but we didn’t.

I think Clark’s failings have been shown up. We all knew he can be a bit impetuous and rash, but at the same time his nuts & bolts defending has been good. The OG was quite similar to Iceland’s against Hungary, the difference being that Hungary were more certain to score i.e., 100%. Is the Icelandic bloke being hung out to dry?

The Belgium game was gone by the time Clark – exposed by earlier errors – erred badly by taking neither ball nor man. I’d drop him but I wouldn’t crucify him.

Roy Keane nailed it for me. Although there were individual errors the players lacked courage to seek the ball. I’d add that they lacked courage carrying the ball too. We weren’t always being pressed against Belgium. There were many occasions, and against Sweden too, where McCarthy or Whelan had the ball at his feet with space to attack and yet they did nothing positive with it. We expect that from Whelan who arguably has other merits (he defended very well in “ordinary” play in both games) but McCarthy just wasn’t at it in either game. Hendrick attacked the ball and space in each game. He did it well in game one, poorly in game two.

I do think management failed somewhat too though. Walters is key to their plan A and Plan B. Without him there was no Plan C. The squad contained two or three selections I wouldn’t have agreed with. I’ll reserve judgment until after tomorrow (or later :) ) but it looks to me like we still have to move decisively away from Trap tactics. On occasion we are less Trap-like than Trap was but only when we face similar standard opposition, or worse.

These are the 3rd place standings after last night:

Rank	Country	P	W	D	L	F	A	GD	PTS	GRP
1	SLO	3	1	1	1	3	3	0	4	B
2	NIR	2	1	0	1	2	1	1	3	C
3	ALB	3	1	0	2	1	3	-2	3	A
4	POR	2	0	2	0	1	1	0	2	F
5	CZE	2	0	1	1	2	3	-1	1	D
6	SWE	2	0	1	1	1	2	-1	1	E

Something I have to repeatedly shout on a wet Sunday morning to my fellow amateur football team mates is to remind them that the BALL IS NOT A BOMB.

Watching Ireland on Saturday afternoon that phrase kept running through my head. Unfortunately the majority of our players (particularly our defenders and central midfield) do not like receiving the ball and when they do it causes panic. The players do need to be braver and back themselves. Whelan and McCarthy need to go and get the ball off the centre backs and take us FORWARDS. This negative kick it back to the keeper everytime drives me ****ing nuts.

I thought we played really well versus Sweden but for some reason we lost our bottle against Belgium and went back to cave man Trap football. BE BRAVE and BELIEVE.

Italy are making 9 changes:D

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Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

That’s why we’re targeting 4 :)

I’d rank ourselves as on a par with Sweden, and inferior to Italy and Belgium. So one point is the expected return. We might have got 3 from Sweden but we didn’t.

I think Clark’s failings have been shown up. We all knew he can be a bit impetuous and rash, but at the same time his nuts & bolts defending has been good. The OG was quite similar to Iceland’s against Hungary, the difference being that Hungary were more certain to score i.e., 100%. Is the Icelandic bloke being hung out to dry?

The Belgium game was gone by the time Clark – exposed by earlier errors – erred badly by taking neither ball nor man. I’d drop him but I wouldn’t crucify him.

Roy Keane nailed it for me. Although there were individual errors the players lacked courage to seek the ball. I’d add that they lacked courage carrying the ball too. We weren’t always being pressed against Belgium. There were many occasions, and against Sweden too, where McCarthy or Whelan had the ball at his feet with space to attack and yet they did nothing positive with it. We expect that from Whelan who arguably has other merits (he defended very well in “ordinary” play in both games) but McCarthy just wasn’t at it in either game. Hendrick attacked the ball and space in each game. He did it well in game one, poorly in game two.

I do think management failed somewhat too though. Walters is key to their plan A and Plan B. Without him there was no Plan C. The squad contained two or three selections I wouldn’t have agreed with. I’ll reserve judgment until after tomorrow (or later :) ) but it looks to me like we still have to move decisively away from Trap tactics. On occasion we are less Trap-like than Trap was but only when we face similar standard opposition, or worse.

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But Clark keeps on making error after error, that cost points and games.
He's not a young lad anymore, yet he continues to make bad mistakes at club and international level.

I said all along he would cost us games, you all disagreed, seems I was right.

When he dived in on the half way line, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry it was that bad a decision.

Had he of caught the player he'd of got a red.

I'd give Duffa a run

What's your XI for tomorrow Doc?

It was frustrating 4 years ago when Trapattoni stuck with underperforming players. O'Neill has to drop players who are out of form.

Sounds like O'Shea is a goner. Hopefully Duffy gets a chance.

Hopefully the shock of Spain's loss will be a distraction for the Italian's! Italy get to take on Spain as a reward for winning our group!

That Swedish draw is just even more gut wrenching now after today's results.

Am I right in saying there hasn't been a shot on target against Italy?

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Am I right in saying there hasn't been a shot on target against Italy?

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No but that shouldn't stop us! Sweden drew with us 1-1 without having a shot on target!

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Originally Posted by TheOneWhoKnocks

Am I right in saying there hasn't been a shot on target against Italy?

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Take a shot from kick off to put that ghost to bed!

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Originally Posted by cfdh_edmundo

Take a shot from kick off to put that ghost to bed!

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You never know, it might even go in.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36590813

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Euro 2016: Italy v Republic of Ireland on 'irreversibly damaged' Lille pitch

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The Republic of Ireland will play their crucial Euro 2016 group match against Italy on Wednesday on a pitch that Uefa says is "irreversibly damaged".The playing surface at Lille's Stade Pierre Mauroy cut up during France's draw against Switzerland on Sunday, with players losing their footing.
Bad weather is being blamed, despite a retractable roof at the stadium, and the pitch will be replaced on Friday.

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Will the state of the pitch be to our advantage?

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"We saw the pitch didn't look that great but it's going to be the same for the Italians as it is for ourselves so that makes it a level playing field," said Ireland left-back Stephen Ward.
"Myself and Wes Hoolahan have played in the League of Ireland so we're used to it." :D

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Interesting metaphor Wardy. The bumpy pitch makes it a level playing field.

I feel like something bad is happening. Is there breaking news? Any leaks on the Italian team?

Ireland's odds are drifting out this morning from 3.3 to 3.5 and 3.6 in places now in the last 30 mins.