We are where we are - Speculate wildly about next season

Right so what's left and what way will they fall. I've divided into three categories.

Athlone Town - New CEO, nice stand, Chinese about to take over the midlands. Pass

Bohs - Outstanding loans, not sure what story is. Haven't a clue

Bray - Skint. Was worries at start of the season Dodgy

Cork - Nice ground. Big crowds. Steady as she goes Pass

Derry - Continue to do well out of affirmative action, decent crowds, northern. Pass

Dundalk - Look fairly shagged. Dodgy

Drogheda -Seem to be doing well on small money. Have been through the mill before. Pass

Finn Harps - Lack of Interest, poor team, new ground on the way though. Haven't a clue.

Longford Town - Poor interest locally. But tidy ground and seem to be doing well on a budget. Pass

Limerick - Filthy, dirty, rich. Pass

Mervue United - May hang on in there to see what the craic is, don't seem to be stuck. Haven't a clue

SD Galway - Who?? Dodgy

Shelbourne - Disappointing crowds, ground they could be turfed out of at any moment falling down around their arse. Shels though, can't see them going wallop. Haven't a clue.

Shamrock Rovers - Second only to Limerick in the filthy rich stakes. Pass

Sligo - All sorts of dodgy rural type rumours. Personally I think they'll prob be fine but.... Haven't a clue

St. Pats - Would appear to be quite fine. Pass

UCD - State subsidised. Pass

Waterford United - Poor crowds, poor setup, have friends though. Haven't a clue

Wexford Youths - Poor crowds, could be affected by dodgy builder gate. Dodgy



From that motley crew, the FAI will imo most likely have to select 16 for a one division LoI. Which will be absolute poison for so many reasons.

Would like to see 10 team league of derry, sligo, cork, limerick, rovers, pats, drogs, shels, ucd and bohs.

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Right so what's left and what way will they fall. I've divided into three categories.

Waterford United - Poor crowds, poor setup, have friends though. Haven't a clue.

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Speculate wildly indeed :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Mario

Would like to see 10 team league of derry, sligo, cork, limerick, rovers, pats, drogs, shels, ucd and bohs.

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10 team league or 10 team division? It's been proven already, 10 teams is simply too little. 12 team division is too little if you ask me. We need to generate some sort of interest in the league. Not have a dull monotonous league year in, year out.

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

10 team league or 10 team division? It's been proven already, 10 teams is simply too little. 12 team division is too little if you ask me. We need to generate some sort of interest in the league. Not have a dull monotonous league year in, year out.

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i dont think anyone will all of a sudden start supporting the league if its 16 teams either though.

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Originally Posted by bluewhitearmy

i dont think anyone will all of a sudden start supporting the league if its 16 teams either though.

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It's still better than a 12 or 10 team division.

The Triumphant Return of Galway United.....

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Originally Posted by nigel-harps1954

It's still better than a 12 or 10 team division.

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How though? A league with no relegation will be ridiculous the amount of pointless games.

Is there a genuine concern amongst Sligo fans about the state of their cashflow/ability to last the season? It seems to me, especially on here, that its Shamrock Rvrs fans that keep on about it(not having a go at Shams so don't be giving off!)

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Right so what's left and what way will they fall. I've divided into three categories.

Athlone Town - New CEO, nice stand, Chinese about to take over the midlands. Pass

Bohs - Outstanding loans, not sure what story is. Haven't a clue

Bray - Skint. Was worries at start of the season Dodgy

Cork - Nice ground. Big crowds. Steady as she goes Pass

Derry - Continue to do well out of affirmative action, decent crowds, northern. Pass

Dundalk - Look fairly shagged. Dodgy

Drogheda -Seem to be doing well on small money. Have been through the mill before. Pass

Finn Harps - Lack of Interest, poor team, new ground on the way though. Haven't a clue.

Longford Town - Poor interest locally. But tidy ground and seem to be doing well on a budget. Pass

Limerick - Filthy, dirty, rich. Pass

Mervue United - May hang on in there to see what the craic is, don't seem to be stuck. Haven't a clue

SD Galway - Who?? Dodgy

Shelbourne - Disappointing crowds, ground they could be turfed out of at any moment falling down around their arse. Shels though, can't see them going wallop. Haven't a clue.

Shamrock Rovers - Second only to Limerick in the filthy rich stakes. Pass

Sligo - All sorts of dodgy rural type rumours. Personally I think they'll prob be fine but.... Haven't a clue

St. Pats - Would appear to be quite fine. Pass

UCD - State subsidised. Pass

Waterford United - Poor crowds, poor setup, have friends though. Haven't a clue

Wexford Youths - Poor crowds, could be affected by dodgy builder gate. Dodgy



From that motley crew, the FAI will imo most likely have to select 16 for a one division LoI. Which will be absolute poison for so many reasons.

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the bolded bits are like the Ireland gameplan under Trap! :)

There is not alot we can do when the general public are so dis-interested in our league.

However we should concentrate on the traditional clubs in the country , its pointless trying to bring new clubs in when the clubs with soccer traditions are struggling. That means no more Fingals/Dublin Citys/SD Galways/Kildare Counties. We need to help the clubs struggling that have a chance of survival, that means Finn Harps/Athlone Town/ Waterford/Dundalk. This means the FAI putting real money into the league where it needs it and there lies the problem.

If we could bring these clubs back to a relatively strong position we then have a better chance of a sustainable league. Reality says we will lose more clubs though.

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Originally Posted by Lim till i die

Waterford United - Poor crowds, poor setup, have friends though. Haven't a clue

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You kind of get the feeling that all logic goes out the window in one sentence.

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Originally Posted by blue til i die

Speculate wildly indeed :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Partizan

You kind of get the feeling that all logic goes out the window in one sentence.

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In fairness your own players have been complaining about your set up during the season so you can see why people would think its not the best.

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Originally Posted by bluewhitearmy

How though? A league with no relegation will be ridiculous the amount of pointless games.

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You could extend the interest with some kind of play off for the last euro place though.

Hard to see past a single division league at this stage. They won't have the balls to suggest anything radical. Something like a two conference system, with play offs for championship, may have some merits/ be worth investigating. Even if the purest in me says a championship should always be a straight league, the current set up of small divisions is failing, and I'm not sure a large single division will work either. On reflection, apart from licencing perhaps the current FAI's regimes biggest failure is to nurture and bring through more clubs (that are already playing in national competitions at underage, and A level).

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Originally Posted by horton

Is there a genuine concern amongst Sligo fans about the state of their cashflow/ability to last the season? It seems to me, especially on here, that its Shamrock Rvrs fans that keep on about it(not having a go at Shams so don't be giving off!)

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Ask a Shams fan, they seem to know more than the rest of us about our club.
:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Dixie Dean

There is not alot we can do when the general public are so dis-interested in our league.

However we should concentrate on the traditional clubs in the country , its pointless trying to bring new clubs in when the clubs with soccer traditions are struggling. That means no more Fingals/Dublin Citys/SD Galways/Kildare Counties. We need to help the clubs struggling that have a chance of survival, that means Finn Harps/Athlone Town/ Waterford/Dundalk. This means the FAI putting real money into the league where it needs it and there lies the problem.

If we could bring these clubs back to a relatively strong position we then have a better chance of a sustainable league. Reality says we will lose more clubs though.

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A lot of truth in that post Dixie.
Too many clubs competing for support and sponsorship in the same geographic area is a major problem. Not saying this was Monaghans only problem.
I've been supporting Sligo Rovers since the mid 60's and have now seen a lot of clubs go to the wall. But only a serious problem since the introduction of
new clubs with no real tradition of football in their area and no real chance of long-term sustainability on the horizon.
Clubs need to be spread out to capture as much genuine support and money as possible. Three LoI clubs in Galway is a classic example.
Sligo Rovers have, and need, a big support from outside the county. But if for instance, Castlebar Celtic were let into the League, we would lose a lot if not most of our Mayo support thereby causing us problems.
Cutting the prize money so dramatically is also a big problem. The difference was probably used on junkets to Poland!

We are now competing with EPL/SPL clubs for crowds and the FAI have to step up to the plate and accept and address this with more than just lipservice.

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Originally Posted by Macy

You could extend the interest with some kind of play off for the last euro place though.

Hard to see past a single division league at this stage. They won't have the balls to suggest anything radical. Something like a two conference system, with play offs for championship, may have some merits/ be worth investigating. Even if the purest in me says a championship should always be a straight league, the current set up of small divisions is failing, and I'm not sure a large single division will work either. On reflection, apart from licencing perhaps the current FAI's regimes biggest failure is to nurture and bring through more clubs (that are already playing in national competitions at underage, and A level).

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I agree with what you've put down Macy and then laugh when I see you call the FAI a regime - after questioning my descriptions of the FG/LAB hell pact :p

A conference system could work well, especially if it's narrowed to 2 divisions of 10 (each playing 2 rounds in their own division and 1 against the other). The FAI need to think very radical, very different and very non-British. Dead matches (just thinking of the infernal grind to the season's end for Dundalk last year which was like death by a thousand cuts) could be remedied by the top 4 of each conference playing off in full quarterfinals or into a south vs north final. Each club gets almost 30 regular season matches and there is something to play for until the end. Or even the top 6 from each conference play off for the regional title and the chance for the national one.

Ultimately it is, as you (Macy) stated the failure to nurture and build more clubs, not just quick fixes palmed off to a few heavy investors. They can still do this, especially as the economy is at a low point, however it is too much work for them.

And I know I'll be slated for this, but one really positive and progressive element could be added properly by the FAI - a proper League XI with set fixtures. This offers a realistic chance for players to challenge themselves, showcase their talents and have something to aim for. If we're honest, the LOI is akin to a County Board, so make it nice and parochial, get 3-4 League XI matches a year - play Catalonia, other region or pro league selections and make the LOI worth playing in. It can even make money - especially if it's kept clear of Super Cups.

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Originally Posted by redobit

Ask a Shams fan, they seem to know more than the rest of us about our club.
:rolleyes:

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Whats the craic with Shams heard an interesting story at work today about expenditure up , crowds down , less members , looking to pay off kenny and council looking to put rent up.

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Originally Posted by dublinred

Whats the craic with Shams heard an interesting story at work today about expenditure up , crowds down , less members , looking to pay off kenny and council looking to put rent up.

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What are you asking me for. And on the above dublinred, I wouldnt bother. Just cause they spread bull about us dosent mean we have to bow to their level.

Ye I agree when people say a league without promotion/relegation is a waste of time. Just look at GUFC last season for example their biggest crowd came when they were playing in the relegation play-off, clubs need something like that to keep the local event heads interested. At this point I cant see anything other than 1 league next season but we seriously need to fast track clubs such as Tullamore Town, Cobh Ramblers, Tralee Dynamo's, Fanad United etc into the LOI system....A direct link between all of the leagues would be fantastic for Irish football at all levels.

Only Clubs with a traditional support base should even consider entering this league and the FAI should advise those that don't, not to bother even thinking about it. That would rule out a lot of the clubs you mentioned outspoken. Whatever chance better known traditional Clubs have , history tells us newbies go bust. This economic environment makes the challenge close to impossible, unless you have a sugar daddy and a small army of volunteers who know what they are doing. In fairness to Longford they appear to be on top of things, but I'm sure its anything but easy.

Btw that was never a penalty last night. :)

It's a good opportunity for the FAI to completely wind up the League of Ireland, re-brand it and re-launch it. The current format is dated, it doesn't work and needs an overhaul. Create X amount of places and have clubs apply to the new league. Get a good commercial sponsor - say for example the Carlsberg Irish Super League or similar. I see nothing wrong with a 16 team/32 game league, provided it's run like the Dutch league where play-offs are held for the European places. The LOI is a long running joke at this stage. In terms of Irish sport it's names is dirt at this stage. Needs a complete overhaul and a new face imo.

Key to any re evaluation to the league is the reduction in costs,
if 95% of the population in Ireland can live on between €50 and €900 a week no LOI player should be breaking that ceiling on current gates.
a small fund could be created that may cost clubs €1500 a year each that would help pay up to an average industrial wage to those players affected in mid season by a particular clubs severe crisis e.g Mons to get to seasons end or over a hump

About 70% of players in the league have no hope of playing in England so LOI is the highest standard of football, so clubs should come together and form a pact where no club pays one of these players more than €300 a week. For too long average players in LOI have been over paid.

i wouldnt go that far, they work hard and wouldnt undervalue what they do or the level they can get to to compete or remain competitive.
Free market but anyone over 900 in the loi a week is crazy including managers.
The PFAi need to look at themselves as well and work for a sustainable living for players over time and not go blind to lads getting 3000 a week net and 300-600 souls paying in every second week at the same club

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

It's a good opportunity for the FAI to completely wind up the League of Ireland, re-brand it and re-launch it. The current format is dated, it doesn't work and needs an overhaul. Create X amount of places and have clubs apply to the new league.

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Is this not just the IAG process?

Speculate wildly! Hmmm, let me see:
Premier division of 12 to remain, with an extra club being promoted following Monaghan's exit.

On the subject of speculating wildly: a number of clubs to be fast tracked into the league with the second tier being split into a Northern League and Southern, along the lines of the U19 League. The winners of both leagues to gain promotion. Second in each league will play-off over two-legs with the winner taking on 10th of the Premier in a relegation/promotion play-off final.

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Originally Posted by Dixie Dean

There is not alot we can do when the general public are so dis-interested in our league.

However we should concentrate on the traditional clubs in the country , its pointless trying to bring new clubs in when the clubs with soccer traditions are struggling. That means no more Fingals/Dublin Citys/SD Galways/Kildare Counties. We need to help the clubs struggling that have a chance of survival, that means Finn Harps/Athlone Town/ Waterford/Dundalk. This means the FAI putting real money into the league where it needs it and there lies the problem.

If we could bring these clubs back to a relatively strong position we then have a better chance of a sustainable league. Reality says we will lose more clubs though.

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It's very true the general public are disinterested in the league. There's obvious competion from across the water but current structures are not doing the league any favours. 12/26 counties have a club. For the league to have national interest, that has to be improved on. Clubs can't just be magic-ed up so a lot of work has to be done.

A balance needs to be struck on concentrating on traditional clubs at the top while having a structure in place where new clubs can come in at a regional level.

Reality as you say is more clubs will be lost and nothing will happen areas outside of the league system.

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Originally Posted by outspoken

Ye I agree when people say a league without promotion/relegation is a waste of time. Just look at GUFC last season for example their biggest crowd came when they were playing in the relegation play-off, clubs need something like that to keep the local event heads interested. At this point I cant see anything other than 1 league next season but we seriously need to fast track clubs such as Tullamore Town, Cobh Ramblers, Tralee Dynamo's, Fanad United etc into the LOI system....A direct link between all of the leagues would be fantastic for Irish football at all levels.

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Agreed about fast tracking clubs as I've suggested above. Something will have to give for this to happen, mainly first division clubs accepting a regionalised second tier is required at this time to have more clubs involved.

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Originally Posted by cheifo

Only Clubs with a traditional support base should even consider entering this league and the FAI should advise those that don't, not to bother even thinking about it. That would rule out a lot of the clubs you mentioned outspoken. Whatever chance better known traditional Clubs have , history tells us newbies go bust. This economic environment makes the challenge close to impossible, unless you have a sugar daddy and a small army of volunteers who know what they are doing. In fairness to Longford they appear to be on top of things, but I'm sure its anything but easy.

Btw that was never a penalty last night.

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Totally disagree with traditional support only being considered. Traditional support has to be achknowledged and respected but new regions are required as well. The league needs to have more roots nationally if it is to be a strong league. 14/26 counties don't have a direct link to the league. That has to change.

History does say newbies go bust. That should not rule out newbies altogether. A solution has to be found to get new clubs involved at a certain level.

No wonder the newbies go bust when it costs €180k minimum to run a First Division club. The First Division is too costly for the product it serves up. Teams should be able to operate on as low a cost base as possible. If that means regionalising it then so be it.

I know its a worn out phrase but some sort of pyramid structure must be put in place. A look at the First Division table shows that out of 8 teams, 3 of them look to have nothing to play for, and in a few weeks Wexford and Athlone may be in that bracket if Waterford pull away.

Are Wexford going to be able to survive if Mick Wallace pulls the plug? Article in the Sunday Indo reckons they won't, but then again he referred to Limerick as 'Limerick City' it's hard to gauge.

Fran Gavin just said on MNS that it'll be a 12 team premier next season.

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Originally Posted by adamd164

Fran Gavin just said on MNS that it'll be a 12 team premier next season.

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He did say they look at it in terms of a 4-5 year basis and not just on what happened this year. Sounds reasonable the Premier was expanded to 12 with a longterm view. Pity he was asked what it'd mean for the first division. I mentioned once about a second division of 6 for those excluded from the first division this year. The first division could be heading in that direction.

As if the MNS team give a toss about the first division.

Pretty sure they mentioned the 1st div and called it ****e.

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Originally Posted by legendz

He did say they look at it in terms of a 4-5 year basis and not just on what happened this year. Sounds reasonable the Premier was expanded to 12 with a longterm view. Pity he was asked what it'd mean for the first division. I mentioned once about a second division of 6 for those excluded from the first division this year. The first division could be heading in that direction.

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and if you believe that you'll believe anything. Same old bull, tell them a positive spin, they'll believe it and forget about what is really going on in the real world.

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Originally Posted by adamd164

Fran Gavin just said on MNS that it'll be a 12 team premier next season.

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He also said the league was going really well, there's no immediate problems, and crowds are very good at the minute.

7/8 team 1st division, be grand they said..

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Originally Posted by 4tothefloor

It's a good opportunity for the FAI to completely wind up the League of Ireland, re-brand it and re-launch it.

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Lets call it the National League, or the FAI national league, or the League of Ireland, or the FAI national league of Ireland. or we'll just use the sponsor's name...

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The current format is dated, it doesn't work and needs an overhaul.

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it works everywhere else. And everywhere else is where irish people look for football. bear that in mind

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Create X amount of places and have clubs apply to the new league.

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Like in 2007. That worked out well for Galway, didn't it?

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Get a good commercial sponsor - say for example the Carlsberg Irish Super League or similar.

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Why has no one thought to try and get a good commercial sponsor?

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I see nothing wrong with a 16 team/32 game league, provided it's run like the Dutch league where play-offs are held for the European places. The LOI is a long running joke at this stage. In terms of Irish sport it's names is dirt at this stage. Needs a complete overhaul and a new face imo.

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It needs investment. it can be called the Free Blowjobs and Chocolate league and no one would come to it because the groudns are **** and its competing with England.

Fiddling with the name and format won't help the game one tiny bit. I'm not saying there isn't merit to numerous ideas here (I don't mind the conference idea myself) but its just re-arrranging deckchairs

Dodge, you're so sexy when you're serious.

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Originally Posted by geezer

a small fund could be created that may cost clubs €1500 a year each that would help pay up to an average industrial wage to those players affected in mid season by a particular clubs severe crisis e.g Mons to get to seasons end or over a hump

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Good God.

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Originally Posted by Trainee

About 70% of players in the league have no hope of playing in England so LOI is the highest standard of football, so clubs should come together and form a pact where no club pays one of these players more than €300 a week. For too long average players in LOI have been over paid.

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Nice idea but try telling someone like Paul Cook that.
Would be impossible to police.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

it works everywhere else. And everywhere else is where irish people look for football. bear that in mind

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Mention the League of Ireland to the wider sporting/football public in this country and you're laughed at. Bear that in mind.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Like in 2007. That worked out well for Galway, didn't it?

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The Titanic sank. Didn't stop them building ships did it? This is 2012, not 2007.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Why has no one thought to try and get a good commercial sponsor?

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Why has no one thought of getting the right profile commercial sponsor/partner and market it properly like it's done in England? Like it's done in Portugal? Airtricity may have put in the best bid, but what coverage do they give the league on an every day basis? Like for example Carling or Barclay's have done in the UK? Or Tennants in Scotland? The only time you ever see or hear airtricity linked to the League of Ireland is when you're, er, in a LOI ground. Poor commercial partner that gives the league no prominence, coverage or kudos.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

It needs investment. it can be called the Free Blowjobs and Chocolate league and no one would come to it because the groudns are **** and its competing with England.

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Yea it needs investment, but that's putting the cart before the horse. You need crowds to pay in before you can earn the money to invest. If you're talking about grants/FAI money, well then we need less clubs because there are too many clubs at the moment and the pot is thus being diluted. Investment money isn't going to grow out of the ground.
What it really needs is marketing, and even more than that, perhaps a persistent media campaign to almost shame Irish football fans to start supporting their local club. People keep referring to the thousands in Poland as Irish fans who support English teams. It's not even that. I was over there. A lot of lads that were there didn't even support English teams, many only had what could only be described as a casual interest in soccer. There were rugby lads there, GAA lads there, some of whom were attending their first major game of football! They were there on a jolly, because they're event junkies. That's what Ireland is, a nation of event junkies. It's not even a football thing. Rugby - Heineken Cup, full houses. Magners/Rabo League, can't give tickets away. GAA - Championship, decent crowds. National League, two men and a dog. And even in the GAA now, fans aren't bothering their arse until the All-Ireland Q/F stage. Look at the Irish national side - Qualifiers, rows of empty seats at every game. Euro 2012, 4/5 of the stadium is Green for all 3 games. Event junkies. Shels, Cork, Derry and Rovers have all attracted huge crowds during their European runs in recent years - despite the grounds the games were played in. Again, event junkies and bandwagoners. My point is if the league was marketed properly and with the right partners, and the right campaigns were run, bigger crowds are possible. It might even appeal to the event junkie.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Fiddling with the name and format won't help the game one tiny bit. I'm not saying there isn't merit to numerous ideas here (I don't mind the conference idea myself) but its just re-arrranging deckchairs

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Of course it's re-arranging the deck chairs. What's your solution? That every club get's a Roman Abramovich who invests his oil money in to building super duper stadiums for all the lost sheep to flock to? Where's this investment that you mentioned going to come from? You have to stimulate people in to going to games. The LOI in it's current format is not doing that and imo, never will. The LOI has an image problem whether we like it or not. So moving deck chairs and building it up organically it is then...

And regards facilities, Cork City, Shams, Waterford have lovely stadiums - all seater with good facilities. Loads of empty seats at games though, more than half the stadium in a lot of cases. So it is not facilities. I can guarantee you if every LOI club had a shiny all seater tomorrow morning, there'd still be a sea of empty seats every Friday night.