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Anyone else watching this.... cracker of a game for the neutral!
Upson and Terry :eek:
Germanys opening 25mins!!
Germany falling apart for no reason whatsoever :eek:
The lino not seeing the ball cross over the line :eek:
Classic stuff! God I wish I was home to watch the RTE or the BBC panel for entertainment!
Terrible decision reminiscent of 1966, history repeating itself, I though it was over but was not 100% sure.
SO I guess England will know how Ireland felt now.
If England lose they can at least say they were robbed.
Superb game. Delivering everything it promised.
I wonder what the Welsh and Norn Iron FA's make of the controversy?
IFAB my @ss.
Looks like the game is gonna produce a red..... have a sneaking suspicion it'll be a German on the recieving end and we could go to pens.
Could have been 10-1. And even if the Lampard's goal would have stood Germany would have just stepped up their extra 3 gears. And I'd love to invest in the Doner Kebab Restaurant that Gareth Barry spends all his time in. FFS. My granny can run faster than him.
Terry has been a cart horse the whole tournament. Look at his reaction after the half assed attempt on Klose for the first goal. Bobby Moore would be turning in his grave if he could watch this chancer. As for the the Beckham circus. In comparison to the German's most of the English players look outdated, unfit and really, really poor footballers.
The better team won by a fair margin. England's passing was hopeless, their defence couldn't deal with the Germans' pace and they didn't look organised at all; there were huge gaps whenever Germany broke.
Hope the guys on here who backed em to win the WC didn't lose too much.
I was in stitches at times watching that bunch of jokers. Their defence was bad but the midfield was just as woeful. Lampard, Gerrard, Barry and Milner waste possession time and time again. The BBC were saying beforehand you wouldn't really swap any English players for a German & I nearly choked on my drink. They soon changed their tune at FT.
Please tell me RTE are laying into em properly? Looking forward to watching it on youtube later on.
Sadly lacking Dunphy on this occasion, unfortunately.Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
Gutted. What were they thinking?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sullivinho
Anyone that can get BBC Radio 5-Live, stick it on. Hilarious moaning. The German goalie is a cheat apparently, just like footballers in their private lives. :D
What did the keeper do?!Quote:
Originally Posted by Schumi
Marty Tyler reckons Rio would have made all the difference. Beam me up Scottie. And sharpish. Now its too many foreign players. FFS.
Capello is getting it in the neck from the likes of (arrogant) Mullery and Butcher on SSN now. Apparently, a british manager like Arry is the man to solve all their problems now. No doubt the manager has to take some of the blame, players like Gerrard played out of position, the persistance with Heskey etc etc. Something went seriously wrong with this team from where they were at the end of qualifying and the start of this WC.
In fairness to the few fans they have interviewed, they have got it right, never mind the disallowed goal, abject performance from a team that did not show enough passion or desire representing their country. Didnt even go and acknowledge the fans after the match by all accounts. A team no longer in touch with its public??
Impressive from Germany. Three of their goals were real team goals and a delight to watch. The potential of a counter attacking contest against Argentina next weekend is something to look forward to.
Perhaps there is something in the culture argument, the culture that doesnt like to see players dwelling on the ball, a culture that doesnt instill confidence in a player on the ball. In truth a culture that we operate in ourselves.
On the disallowed goal, now England know how we felt to an extent. It will be interesting to see if there will be any change in FIFA's stance now considering it involves a big association. I suspect it wont, particularly considering the overall result of the game.
The English defense was like shredded sauerkraut
Didn't tell the ref that the shot was over the line!Quote:
Originally Posted by shakermaker1982
I don't agree. Germany had lost their composure and there's no guaranteeing they'd have got it back if England were playing confidently. Goals 3 and 4 were breakaways which may not have happened at 2-2. Don't forget England hit the bar at 2-1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
However, there's absolutely no doubt the more adept team won. Right from the first minute England were laboured in possession and their first touch was shambolic. Trevor Brooking is 100% right when he bemoans lack of technique in the English game despite their good performances at underage tournaments. Engaland nearly scored from 2 set pieces which is par for the course. They got nowhere near the German goal by playing skillfully, except for maybe Gerrard's late effort.
I have to admit I bought into the hype to a large extent this time around but, controversy aside, it's the same old story - lack of ball retention, which comes from bad technique. In fact it was worse this time, as some of the individual performances - and from famous players - were lauaghable.
Bang on, but as long as there's decent money to be made from making it in England it'll never change.Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
It'll be really interestring to see how Blatter ducks out of the technology issue now. I'm very cautious about it myself, but this is at least one area where virtually none of the "anti technology" arguments apply.
I agree with Stutts. That disallowed goal was important - one can never say how it would have gone after that. I would be gutted if I were an English fan. Sure Germany were the better team but that doesn't mean their would have won as their 3rd and 4th goals were catching England on the break. What was the point in England pushing so many players up for Lampard's shot since he wasn't going to cross the ball and they then get caught on the break. Capello has a lot to answer for and as for bringing on Heskey with 15 minutes to go - baffling.
As for the anti-BBC Panel brigade, they must be very disappointed as they were very scathing of the whohe team performance from manager to players to system.
Shaker, why did you want to hear what Dunphy says? Isn't is predictable except he wont mention that he recommended people to back England before the tournament! I am sure he is being kept back for this evening so he can really lay in once the game was over. I thought it was great to see that Brady still felt the anger and hate most of us still feel for Blatter. It was palpable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
No matter about the goal that wasnt was.............England still had 45 minutes of a game to do something. They were rubbish in all their games.
And the BBC only slashed into the team AFTER they were knocked out...........................
BBC R5 Live was quiteb good just now (nearly 7pm) - David Pleat criticising England's "straight line" football and the whole English footballing culture. The writing was on the wall in May, when both Mexico and Japan outplayed them. Japan & Korea are motre techgnically adept than England.
Did Martin Tyler really blame foreigners? Foreigners set the standard in the EPL and allow the few English players with real talent to shine.
Schweinsteiger was a joy to watch tonight. I hope Darron Gibson was taking notes. I also hope Wim Koevermans knows the shortfalls of the UK / Irish way of developing players.
Capello has to take SOME of the blame for this but ultimately England were not good enough and never were going to be good enough to win this World Cup because they simply did not have the players to do it. They have a lot of useless players, a lot of average players, only a few players who would get into the best sides in the tournament (Ashley Cole, Gerrard, Rooney, maybe Lampard). But Rooney had a nightmare World Cup and today was his worst performance of the four, Gerrard has never played Left Midfield, Rooney had an awful tournament for some reason, Lampard is nearing the end of his time.
How the hell was Glen Johnson left on for 87 minutes, the man was absolutely sh1te!! £20 million me boll1x. He should have clipped Sweinsteiger's ankle and taken a yellow card in the build-up to the 3rd Germany goal. England's wingers don't play on the wings week in week out which doesn't help at all. Capello left Adam Johnson at home and refused to play Joe Cole from the start.
Not once during the qualifying campaign did Capello play the starting team that England went with in the Slovenia and Germany (Even if you don't include Ferdinand/Upson in that, not once did the other 10 ever start a qualifying game together). Also I'm fairly sure Defoe and Milner started none of the qualifiers.
The subs England had had nothing to offer either - SWP, Heskey(how he played nearly all the qualifiers and friendlies is unbelievably mind boggling!), Carra is well past it, Carrick is brutal, Crouch is not good enough, King is crocked...
Just a point on the Lampard "goal": I presume it's well known among football watchers (I can't be alone in noticing it) that when a shot hits the underside of the bar and bounces straight down, the spin on the ball takes the ball back into play. I always use as a "rule of thumb" how far the ball bounces back into play to form an instinctive idea as to how close the ball was to the line. In this instance the ball bounced back up into the crossbar and if I was ref I'd have given the goal on that basis alone. It's just a fact of physics.
Momentum is huge and with two goals in two mins, even the germans wouldve been rattled. Who knows?? Yes the germans were by far the better team but at that point England wouldve been rampant and its not inconceivable that they wouldve even gone ahead before half time. The Germans didnt exactly look rock solid at the back themselves. Having said that, even if England were allowed the goal, it still doesnt excuse how poor they were defensively. John T was caught extremely deep for at least two of the goals which left them exposed for, 1 the long ball goal and 2, on the break at the third goal.
On the bounce of the ball, on first viewing i wouldve said the ball wasnt over the line the way it bounced straight back up and hit the bar, so although it might have credence I think using the general bounce of the ball to determine if the ball was over the line are not is far from definitive.
Another shocker this evening in the Mexico game which has seriously swung the game in Argentinas favour. Tevez well offside for the first goal, not even a doubt about it. But it was interesting to note that the linesman and ref appeared to see the replay on the large screen and realised how wrong they were but still refused to disallow the goal.
God forbid it should be proven how fast and effective video technology is. Can't be having that!Quote:
Originally Posted by elroy
Incidentally, Sepp Blatter was clearly offside here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mu7i5CJq3mg
Look at the England players at the end of the game compared to the South Korean's and American's after their losses. Shrugs from the England players and swapping of jerseys. They knew they never put in a decent shift. Too many professional bluffers on that England team. And Germany won't beat Argentina. So they will have gone out with two draws against the US and Algeria. A slender win against Slovenia. And a loss to a team that will almost certainly get knocked out in the quarters themselves.
Your comment is fair stutts but on the basis of the ball bouncing back up onto the top bar , i wud have thought it was more a goal. I dont blame the ref or the linesman for missing it, but it yet again it calls for video technology.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
Germany were by far the better team over the 90mins and especially over the first 30mins BUT as they say Goals change games , and whereas england still probably wud have lost ....its the "ya never know" factor that still will linger , in the same way we "MAY" have beaten france on penos.
Watching argentinas first goal tonite against mexico and wat b*llsh*t it was......i just felt annoyed and embarassed for football
anyone else think it's ironic that Blatter saw Lampard's goal that wasn't given on the replay in his private box?
Clearly technology, ie more and better cameras is exposing more and more mistakes made by officials, when a goal or lack thereof is disputed the ref should have access to video technology via an official, also in other key decisions such as sending offs.
It is getting quite farcical the number of potentially game changing decisions which are being shown to be wrong.
I thought that had Lampard's goal been given, England would have bossed the game until the break. The Germans were clearly and deeply rattled, worryingly for them.
However, after the break, England had 45 minutes in which they simply HAD TO perform, or they were out. But they didn't. Whether it's a technical or a mental problem, they were not able to perform. They must have known after the group stage games that they needed to raise the performance, or they'd be out, but they turned in another pretty rudderless and spineless 90 minutes.
Southgate made an interesting point on ITV's hightlights tonight - saying how 5 of the German U-21 team from the last Euro (or was it World) championships were in the squad, with 4 playing, whereas England had only Milner and Hart. Basically, they German U-21 players got a lot of game time to help them develop (not all did, obviously), whereas with stakes so high in England (in terms of getting sacked after just a few games) managers don't want to risk selecting these players.
FATTYK!
N.Muntz springs to mind. if only for all their patronising 'meedja'.
Outside of Ireland and the UK England are looked on as similar to the Danes, Swiss, Sweden, Austria etc, etc. They are not feared or ever talked about as World Cup winners. Nobody, especially the South American's take them seriously. What exactly do they bring to the World Cup? The self-pitying crap does not travel well. I feel sorry for people like Lampard who did put in a shift. But Germany should have been 4-0 up before England scored. And anyone who thinks the Germans would have cracked if the legitimate Lampard 2nd goal had of been given is watching too much Sky.
I'm not so sure about this. You have to take into account how quickly the two England goals came - weren't they like 53 seconds apart? Once the goal was disallowed, the Germans reverted to type. They were clever and closed the half out without giving anything else up. They were mature from that point on, even when England dominated the first 10-15 minutes of the second half.Quote:
Originally Posted by osarusan
I wouldn't say the goal being disallowed was irrelevant, but I think in the context of the game Germany showed a maturity and composure that England didn't and that, in my estimation, would have won them the game regardless.
He was slightly less anonymous than usual, I forgot he was playing against Algeria until he came over to take a corner. Barely noticed him against the USA and Slovenia. If it wasn't for the goal-that-wasn't I probabl wouldn't have noticed him tonight either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Noelys Guitar
away from the discussion of the game, it struck me that Capello speaking to Scholes about going to the World Cup meant he didn't think the midfield players he had were up to the challenge of playing in the tournament. Had Scholes gone, where would have played, and who would have been dropped?
I agree about the Algeria game (and the US game). But for me he showed up tonight. He is not a world class player and never will be. But unlike spoofers like Ashley Cole, Terry and Gerard he at least showed for the ball and tried to change the game. How bad was Cole over the four games? A disgrace to himself and football. And Gerard has never been and never will be anything other than a Bell, Lee, and various other England players throughout the 70's/80's/90]s. No guile/wit. And i don't believe for a second that Mourinho is trying to sign him.
Can you re-submit please?Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fly
And now even that pr*ck Cameron calling for 'goal-line technology'! Though as he's posh, very posh Scot, will forgive marginally.