Proposal for Away Travel Club

Here is a detailed proposal for a new Away Travel Club to distribute ALL away tickets except sponsors and players tickets


Membership required - Cost €50

All members joining prior to draw for next qualifying group will have their travel record for this campaign verified.

1 point for all away games attended

Points last for 4 years

Where there is a greater number of applications than tickets all applicants on the cut off mark go into a draw for the last tickets. Unsuccesful applicants on the cut off mark will still be awarded a point for the match as they were willing to travel.

Away tickets are collected in city of match on matchday, upon production of your membership card (for the bigger matches tickets issued in advance) This prevents people buying tickets for games such as Bulgaria at €5 just to give the impression of attending.

All away tickets subject to a surcharge of €10

Any member who fails to get a ticket for an away match but provides genuine evidence of travel will be awarded a point for the game regardless of getting a ticket from a different source.

The reason for the surcharge is the FAI need any scheme to be self financing and if possible revenue generating - the reason Abbey Travel are getting unlimited tickets is as a partner to the FAI and whatever they are paying the FAI need to recover from a travel club if they are to cancel Abbey Travels ticket priveliges.

I've posted elsewhere that I think some recognition needs to be given to home games as well - maybe 1 point per home game and 2 points per away game (to recognise the extra effort involved). There have been a few people posting on here over the years saying they don't go to home games or don't go to friendlies but I think supporting the team means doing everything (home, away and friendlies). That should be recognised in any prioritisation of away tickets.

Thankfully we don't have ticket issues too often for away games (and I still haven't heard of too many regulars who have missed out on tickets for Paris).

Who's proposing this?
Is it a runner?

This should be brought in but needs to be run properly.

Why the 50 quid membership cost if there's a surcharge for each match?

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Originally Posted by EastTerracer

I've posted elsewhere that I think some recognition needs to be given to home games as well - maybe 1 point per home game and 2 points per away game (to recognise the extra effort involved). There have been a few people posting on here over the years saying they don't go to home games or don't go to friendlies but I think supporting the team means doing everything (home, away and friendlies). That should be recognised in any prioritisation of away tickets.

Thankfully we don't have ticket issues too often for away games (and I still haven't heard of too many regulars who have missed out on tickets for Paris).

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That's unfair, as someone living in Donnybrook would get a point for attending a match in LR, yet someone coming from the UK or the States will get the same point, I.E. It's not fair on these people

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EastTerracer

I've posted elsewhere that I think some recognition needs to be given to home games as well - maybe 1 point per home game and 2 points per away game (to recognise the extra effort involved). There have been a few people posting on here over the years saying they don't go to home games or don't go to friendlies but I think supporting the team means doing everything (home, away and friendlies). That should be recognised in any prioritisation of away tickets.

Thankfully we don't have ticket issues too often for away games (and I still haven't heard of too many regulars who have missed out on tickets for Paris).

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As the block booking is basically a closed shop the home points should not be counted as it give those with block bookings an unfair advantage to get ahead on the points system.

Away games are rarely sold out and give a better indication of who is supporting the team as everyone who has the means can go to a game, unlike a home game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zenokelly

Who's proposing this?
Is it a runner?

This should be brought in but needs to be run properly.

Why the 50 quid membership cost if there's a surcharge for each match?

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Its my suggestion which can be forwarded to the FAI if it seems to have sypport from the fans.

The membership fee is to cover the FAI for the cost of implementing a system. Verifying past travel records, producing membership cards, etc.
Also to put people off joining unless they are genuine supporters, the ongoing surcharge is needed to replace the payments they would lose from Abbey Travel.

For the 8,000 PAris tickets they are administering they are getting just €16k in fees, this will not cover the costs of the ticket office for handling the tickets, so any new system would need to be very cost effective for the FAI to consider.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EastTerracer

I've posted elsewhere that I think some recognition needs to be given to home games as well - maybe 1 point per home game and 2 points per away game (to recognise the extra effort involved). There have been a few people posting on here over the years saying they don't go to home games or don't go to friendlies but I think supporting the team means doing everything (home, away and friendlies). That should be recognised in any prioritisation of away tickets.

Thankfully we don't have ticket issues too often for away games (and I still haven't heard of too many regulars who have missed out on tickets for Paris).

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Its an away travel club, there are plenty of people who only travel to away games as they live outside Ireland and use all their holidays for away games and couldnt get time off to travel to home games.

yeah, i am (usually, but not at present) based in the UK, so home matches still cost me a fair whack, but haven't missed 1 this campaign, and have only missed Montenegro and Cyprus away.

I think this idea has legs, but with regards the points system, needs a bit more input / planning.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bluetonic

As the block booking is basically a closed shop the home points should not be counted as it give those with block bookings an unfair advantage to get ahead on the points system.

Away games are rarely sold out and give a better indication of who is supporting the team as everyone who has the means can go to a game, unlike a home game.

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There are very few home games where tickets are a problem (even pre-Croke Park). If we completely discount the home games then I know people who just go on the odd away trip (for the craic and the pi$$-up) who never bother to go to home games (barstooling in the pub) and they would be more entitled to an away ticket than someone who forks out for every game. It doesn't seem fair to me.

I think we all accept that a clean-up of the block-booking scheme and opening up the home games is desirable as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greenforever

Its my suggestion which can be forwarded to the FAI if it seems to have sypport from the fans.

The membership fee is to cover the FAI for the cost of implementing a system. Verifying past travel records, producing membership cards, etc.
Also to put people off joining unless they are genuine supporters, the ongoing surcharge is needed to replace the payments they would lose from Abbey Travel.

For the 8,000 PAris tickets they are administering they are getting just €16k in fees, this will not cover the costs of the ticket office for handling the tickets, so any new system would need to be very cost effective for the FAI to consider.

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You have my support anyway!

Maybe post on YBIG as well:ball:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by magnumpi

yeah, i am (usually, but not at present) based in the UK, so home matches still cost me a fair whack, but haven't missed 1 this campaign, and have only missed Montenegro and Cyprus away.

I think this idea has legs, but with regards the points system, needs a bit more input / planning.

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KISS - Keep it Simple

An away game is an away game

Midweek suits some better than others

Sun destinations suit some better than others

Double headers suit some better than others

Different times of the year suit some better than others

Over 4 years, a point a game should surely be the fairest

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EastTerracer

There are very few home games where tickets are a problem (even pre-Croke Park).

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I disagree. A lot of people believe home games are a closed shop so they don't bother looking. We don't know the true demand. In saying that the France home game in Lansdowne was probably the last game that there was any degree of difficulty getting a ticket for.

The problem is that the block booking is a closed shop so by taking a spare at face value you are contributing to someone else points if you to implement such a system. Not something the majority would be interested in I'd imagine. Once again a fan card system for block bookers with a ticket resale to waiting list members only is the system to implement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EastTerracer

I think we all accept that a clean-up of the block-booking scheme and opening up the home games is desirable as well.

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Agreed.

This whole thing would solve the "im a more proper fan than you" and "what is the definition of a proper supporter" and the "he's only a fairweather fan" etc etc debate. Great idea.

Why does this have to be complicated? There's only a game every 2 or 3 years that there's a shortage of tickets so just keeping track of who gets tickets for the 3 or 4 previous away games should be sufficient. Why this should require shelling out an extra 70-80 a campaign is beyond me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Schumi

Why does this have to be complicated? There's only a game every 2 or 3 years that there's a shortage of tickets so just keeping track of who gets tickets for the 3 or 4 previous away games should be sufficient. Why this should require shelling out an extra 70-80 a campaign is beyond me.

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Given that the away allocation is being cut in half to 5% this is going to be much more of an issue going forward.

The last 4 tickets were Cyprus €20 or €30?, Bulgaria €3, Italy €20, Montenegro €5....give the two cheapest tickets were 2 of the smallest crowds i reckon thousands would have bought them if they knew it would guarantee a playoff ticket

Just say England, Scotland and Northern Ireland get drawn into a group with us sometime, you'd know all about it then.

To be honest add a couple of teams west of the Rhine and the away ticket would be an issue.

I think home tickets should be included.

You must be a bber or on the WL. If on the WL and not offered a home ticket you still get credit as if you bought it.

Although I'm still not convinced we need such a scheme given the obvious extra costs which will be borne by the fans.

I still don't think we'll have any fans locked out on the 18th.

Points should be awarded based on seeding of the opponents

i.e. one point for the away game to the first seed and six points to the away game at the bottom seed.

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Originally Posted by gspain

I think home tickets should be included.

You must be a bber or on the WL. If on the WL and not offered a home ticket you still get credit as if you bought it.

Although I'm still not convinced we need such a scheme given the obvious extra costs which will be borne by the fans.

I still don't think we'll have any fans locked out on the 18th.

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I think we may well need a scheme in the next campaign if we were to draw England and Scotland or NIre we may be glad of a scheme.

While You and I will be ok for tickets a lot of people will be under pressure to get tickets.

As regards home games being counted the reason Im against is is due to the people who live abroad and just cant make them, maybe they could be allocated points on a waiver basis, but this just complicates matters.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gspain

I think home tickets should be included.

You must be a bber or on the WL. If on the WL and not offered a home ticket you still get credit as if you bought it.

Although I'm still not convinced we need such a scheme given the obvious extra costs which will be borne by the fans.

I still don't think we'll have any fans locked out on the 18th.

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Thats not the point, I have tickets sorted for the away end but if I didn't I'd be pis*ed off because I want to be among our fans, not the French fans.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greenforever

Here is a detailed proposal for a new Away Travel Club to distribute ALL away tickets except sponsors and players tickets


Membership required - Cost €50

All members joining prior to draw for next qualifying group will have their travel record for this campaign verified.

1 point for all away games attended

Points last for 4 years

Where there is a greater number of applications than tickets all applicants on the cut off mark go into a draw for the last tickets. Unsuccesful applicants on the cut off mark will still be awarded a point for the match as they were willing to travel.

Away tickets are collected in city of match on matchday, upon production of your membership card (for the bigger matches tickets issued in advance) This prevents people buying tickets for games such as Bulgaria at €5 just to give the impression of attending.

All away tickets subject to a surcharge of €10

Any member who fails to get a ticket for an away match but provides genuine evidence of travel will be awarded a point for the game regardless of getting a ticket from a different source.

The reason for the surcharge is the FAI need any scheme to be self financing and if possible revenue generating - the reason Abbey Travel are getting unlimited tickets is as a partner to the FAI and whatever they are paying the FAI need to recover from a travel club if they are to cancel Abbey Travels ticket priveliges.

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I have a problem with the cost. 50 bucks to start with (per annum?) and a tenner on top for every ticket. Delaney must be reading this and thinking, wow, how come no one here thought of that rip-off? :rolleyes:

A simpler way is for the FAI to use their modern technology with people buying home tickets and people buying away tickets from them, providing travel details which could be checked up, and sort the mess out themselves, instead of the 'lottery' shambles they have at the moment. OK, there's always the should the home games count more than the away games argument. What cannot be defended is that block bookers who go to all the away games are losing out to block bookers who've never left the 26 counties in the current ticket allocation system.

Lads im not being smart here, but if the FAI invested in a week - 2 weeks of a contractors hours, they could set up a good, efficient system in that time. Initial cost would cost them but it would be paid off in a few months in terms of man hour and paper work. Does anyone actually know what/if system is in place?!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Schumi

Why does this have to be complicated? There's only a game every 2 or 3 years that there's a shortage of tickets so just keeping track of who gets tickets for the 3 or 4 previous away games should be sufficient. Why this should require shelling out an extra 70-80 a campaign is beyond me.

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100% agree

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greenforever

Here is a detailed proposal for a new Away Travel Club to distribute ALL away tickets except sponsors and players tickets


Membership required - Cost €50

All members joining prior to draw for next qualifying group will have their travel record for this campaign verified.

1 point for all away games attended

Points last for 4 years

Where there is a greater number of applications than tickets all applicants on the cut off mark go into a draw for the last tickets. Unsuccesful applicants on the cut off mark will still be awarded a point for the match as they were willing to travel.

Away tickets are collected in city of match on matchday, upon production of your membership card (for the bigger matches tickets issued in advance) This prevents people buying tickets for games such as Bulgaria at €5 just to give the impression of attending.

All away tickets subject to a surcharge of €10

Any member who fails to get a ticket for an away match but provides genuine evidence of travel will be awarded a point for the game regardless of getting a ticket from a different source.

The reason for the surcharge is the FAI need any scheme to be self financing and if possible revenue generating - the reason Abbey Travel are getting unlimited tickets is as a partner to the FAI and whatever they are paying the FAI need to recover from a travel club if they are to cancel Abbey Travels ticket priveliges.

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still prefer mine GF:D

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Originally Posted by Polster

100% agree

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Thats not a reason not to plan for the future.

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Originally Posted by SuperDave

Points should be awarded based on seeding of the opponents

i.e. one point for the away game to the first seed and six points to the away game at the bottom seed.

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I suggested this in the other thread but opinion seems to suggest that the system needs to be kept simple. However, I think 1pt per Away game is too simple.

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Originally Posted by Junior

I think 1pt per Away game is too simple.

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I agree with you there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lopez

I have a problem with the cost. 50 bucks to start with (per annum?) and a tenner on top for every ticket. Delaney must be reading this and thinking, wow, how come no one here thought of that rip-off? :rolleyes:

A simpler way is for the FAI to use their modern technology with people buying home tickets and people buying away tickets from them, providing travel details which could be checked up, and sort the mess out themselves, instead of the 'lottery' shambles they have at the moment. OK, there's always the should the home games count more than the away games argument. What cannot be defended is that block bookers who go to all the away games are losing out to block bookers who've never left the 26 counties in the current ticket allocation system.

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No a one off charge to cover the cost of verifying the travel record of applicants and the cost of issuing a card etc.

What you are missing is the fact that the FAI are attempting to distribute the tickets in a fair manner at a signiifcant cost to themselves.

I always look at all costs incurred by the FAI ending up reducing the grants they give to schoolboy clubs / or the employment of RDOs etc.

If the FAI didnt give a toss about regular supporters they would simply hand over ticket sales to ticketmaster who wouldcharge far higher booking fees and operate strictly 1st come 1st served and its also fair to say touts get far more tickets for events sold through ticketmaster.

I've been going to games for a fair few years at this stage an Ive always found that "real fans" never have a problem getting into any games - home or away. Block booker or not, if you want to be there you'll be there. There are always tickets available at face value before games. Football people look after football people the world over.

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Originally Posted by Newryrep

still prefer mine GF:D

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Cant find yours can you post a link

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Originally Posted by blobbyblob

I've been going to games for a fair few years at this stage an Ive always found that "real fans" never have a problem getting into any games - home or away. Block booker or not, if you want to be there you'll be there. There are always tickets available at face value before games. Football people look after football people the world over.

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Lets not ruin what has the potential to be a good discussion with rubbish. So lets not implement a system which rewards loyalty because 'real fans' can always source tickets and this big football family look after each other.

Sweet Jesus.

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Originally Posted by zenokelly

You have my support anyway!

Maybe post on YBIG as well:ball:

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I seem to have been locked out of YBIG, rarely ever post there.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Greenforever

Here is a detailed proposal for a new Away Travel Club to distribute ALL away tickets except sponsors and players tickets


Membership required - Cost €50

All members joining prior to draw for next qualifying group will have their travel record for this campaign verified.

1 point for all away games attended

Points last for 4 years

Where there is a greater number of applications than tickets all applicants on the cut off mark go into a draw for the last tickets. Unsuccesful applicants on the cut off mark will still be awarded a point for the match as they were willing to travel.

Away tickets are collected in city of match on matchday, upon production of your membership card (for the bigger matches tickets issued in advance) This prevents people buying tickets for games such as Bulgaria at €5 just to give the impression of attending.

All away tickets subject to a surcharge of €10

Any member who fails to get a ticket for an away match but provides genuine evidence of travel will be awarded a point for the game regardless of getting a ticket from a different source.

The reason for the surcharge is the FAI need any scheme to be self financing and if possible revenue generating - the reason Abbey Travel are getting unlimited tickets is as a partner to the FAI and whatever they are paying the FAI need to recover from a travel club if they are to cancel Abbey Travels ticket priveliges.

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`

I see 1 quite big issue you are missing from your " Away Travel Club "

THE TRAVEL !

Maybe thats why a Travel agent has it.

I know most people will come back and say that its easy to book it all yourself but not everyone wants to tarvel through 3 or 4 countries, spend hours on a train across Europe or wherever.
It is def easier to get to places like Russia, Gyprus, Greece etc when there is a specific charter orgonised.

Hell Abbey Travel were even cheaper than Aer Lingus and Ryanair to Paris

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Originally Posted by willk1977

`

I see 1 quite big issue you are missing from your " Away Travel Club "

THE TRAVEL !

Maybe thats why a Travel agent has it.

I know most people will come back and say that its easy to book it all yourself but not everyone wants to tarvel through 3 or 4 countries, spend hours on a train across Europe or wherever.
It is def easier to get to places like Russia, Gyprus, Greece etc when there is a specific charter orgonised.

Hell Abbey Travel were even cheaper than Aer Lingus and Ryanair to Paris

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Abbey Travel allegedly are bringing 700 to Paris, Celtic Horizon have withdrawn from the market, 747 no longer have enough clients to charter a plane so I think it is fair to say the vast majority of fans prefer to do their own thing arranging their travel.

If Abbey travel didnt have tickets I doubt if they would have got half that number booking with them.

They were aslo dearer than our trips, we are paying €295 inc taxes and match ticket for 3 nights.

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Originally Posted by willk1977

I see 1 quite big issue you are missing from your " Away Travel Club "

THE TRAVEL !

Maybe thats why a Travel agent has it.

I know most people will come back and say that its easy to book it all yourself but not everyone wants to tarvel through 3 or 4 countries, spend hours on a train across Europe or wherever.
It is def easier to get to places like Russia, Gyprus, Greece etc when there is a specific charter orgonised.

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There'd be nothing stopping travel agents from organising trips to away games, they simply wouldn't have tickets included.

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Originally Posted by Greenforever

Abbey Travel allegedly are bringing 700 to Paris, Celtic Horizon have withdrawn from the market, 747 no longer have enough clients to charter a plane so I think it is fair to say the vast majority of fans prefer to do their own thing arranging their travel.

If Abbey travel didnt have tickets I doubt if they would have got half that number booking with them.

They were aslo dearer than our trips, we are paying €295 inc taxes and match ticket for 3 nights.

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Did the FAI not sign some sort of agreement with them?

I think the travel club would hav X less amount of tickets depending on how many Abbey Travel take. That would be the scenario in any circumstances I'm presuming.

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Originally Posted by Greenforever

I seem to have been locked out of YBIG, rarely ever post there.

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Do you mind if I post it there and gauge the response because there seems to be a lot more travelling supporters on their site nowadays and this is an issue that needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later?

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Originally Posted by zenokelly

Did the FAI not sign some sort of agreement with them?

I think the travel club would hav X less amount of tickets depending on how many Abbey Travel take. That would be the scenario in any circumstances I'm presuming.

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Ive no idea of what Abbey Travel are paying the FAI, i would imagine no more than €50 per ticket over the face value. That is why Ive suggested a €10 handling charge per ticket to compensate for what they would get fom Abbey Travel ( tickets with absoloutely no admin work involved) and to make it attractive to the FAI. ALso by having tickets collected from the host city on matchday would add to costs but make the system far more transparent / fairer.

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Originally Posted by zenokelly

Do you mind if I post it there and gauge the response because there seems to be a lot more travelling supporters on their site nowadays and this is an issue that needs to be dealt with sooner rather than later?

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Not at all.

Looks like a good idea.