9-11 Conspiracies

Tricky and emotive one this morning boys and girls.

Just watched a DVD called Loose Change which is a study of the official story of the 9-11 events.

It seeks to find holes in the official story and presents an analysis of various pieces of physical evidence. It also identifies serious problems with what has become conventional wisdom.

Now, I start off being seriously sceptical of this community given the propensity of freak jobs to play in that space. Having said that, just because you don't buy the official line does not mean you are a freak job.

Having seen this, I end up way short of the conclusion of the filmmaker but accept that there are serious problems with official or conventional wisdom.

Where do we stand on this ?

Ah is this the conspiracy that in 2001 the 9th of November happened in September ?.

I actually only heard the Jim Corr thing on this last week. Seems like there are a few questions to be answered alright.

No conspriacy theory in regards the WTC, they were attacked by terrorists. The flight 316 (was it? the 'Let's Roll' flight) was obviously shot down by the American air force for security reasons. The Pentagon didn't have a plane flown into it, it was more likely a suicide bomber, or explosive of some sort. The size of the hole and the lack of airplane debris all but confirm that.

This story has been done to death

Pick any event with mass attention & it is possible to come up the wildest theories.

pretty sure there's a huge thread on this already

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Originally Posted by jebus

The Pentagon didn't have a plane flown into it, it was more likely a suicide bomber, or explosive of some sort. The size of the hole and the lack of airplane debris all but confirm that.

This story has been done to death

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I'm inclined to agree about the Pennsylvania plane being shot down ...and you know what, given the split second decisions that had to be made, I'd probably have shot it down too.

But the pentagon attack ...I'm quite confident, having seen a few conspiracy theory videos, that it was indeed hit by a plane. Isn't there someone out there who narrowly avoided having a chunk of undercarriage land on their car?

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Originally Posted by Lionel Ritchie

I'm inclined to agree about the Pennsylvania plane being shot down ...and you know what, given the split second decisions that had to be made, I'd probably have shot it down too.

But the pentagon attack ...I'm quite confident, having seen a few conspiracy theory videos, that it was indeed hit by a plane. Isn't there someone out there who narrowly avoided having a chunk of undercarriage land on their car?

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Fully agree that shooting down the plane was the right move, it would be hard to get the families of the victims to understand, but they were going to die anyway

The hole in the side of the Pentagon, more so the size of it, makes me think that it wasn't a plane that hit it. I've seen photos of the site after the damage and there doesn't seem to be any plane debris either so I'd be suspicious of that

Covered to some extent here:

http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=92275

What I love about these theories is the number of people who have to assist in implenting the plan and killing their own people and there is no leak or no one ever eventually comes forward and says "I blew up the Twin Towers".

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

Covered to some extent here:

http://foot.ie/showthread.php?t=92275

What I love about these theories is the number of people who have to assist in implenting the plan and killing their own people and there is no leak or no one ever eventually comes forward and says "I blew up the Twin Towers".

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Thats because they are killed really quickly when they go to talk ! ;)

I thought Loose Change was totally discredited even by its makers.
Will dig out quotes there later but they definitely had to redo it a few times as some of the theories put forward were so flimsy originally.

There was a programme last night on the 9-11 conspiracy and the collapse of the building beside the Twin Towers. Only came in at the end to hear a fireman say that these conspiracies disrespect the lives of the many firemen who died but didn't see the rest of the programme. Anyone see it?

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Originally Posted by OwlsFan

There was a programme last night on the 9-11 conspiracy and the collapse of the building beside the Twin Towers. Only came in at the end to hear a fireman say that these conspiracies disrespect the lives of the many firemen who died but didn't see the rest of the programme. Anyone see it?

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I watched the last 30 minutes. The chief investigator was not the most convincing of sorts, they are currently building an engineering model to try and find out why tower 7 fell.

They had the guy from loose change on and I'm surprised he hasn't had an 'accident' :D i.e. assassinated by the CIA to shut him up. His time will come.

I saw a little piece of it. In the bit I saw they were talking about how they have come to the conclusion that it was office fires, and not all the fuel from the plane, that weakened the structures, and ultimately brought the tower down. To help confirm this, in another of the nearby buildings half of the interior had collapsed in a similar way, with no planes or 'bombs', just fires burning.
Then I went back to the tennis.

I think it was a repeat of the programme that went out a few days ago. Very little in it to convince me that there's anything substantially fishy about September 11th.

I think America and the west in general is a better place due to the vigilance, cynicism and 'Question Everything' attitude of the likes of the young lad who made Loose Change. But he's well off target with his theories on this one, is dismissive of bankable evidence and impartial eyewitness accounts and, in general, he's a bit of a pound-shop Michael Moore.

Saw the second half of last nights show & the one quote that summed it up was an attempt to explain the conspiracy theorists as "...picked holes in official explanation but not joining them together"

If you look long enough at something you will see inconsistencies but does not mean you can join together to make alternative credible explanation. A lot of it can be explained by state bureaucracy & ineptitude.

I think the people shown at ground level handing out free DVDs are disrespectful to the those that died.

one thing that i find hard to grasp about sept11 is how could the security services of such a powerful country be so inept as to allow so many[dedicated terrorists] such easy acess into their country.It was not just four or five but twenty three I think.Thats a lot of terrorists no matter how bad the security agencies are.

I think the larger conspiracy theories are ridiculous, particularly the muppets who think that the police, fire service and Tom, Dick and Harry are involved. Anyone with any experience at all of groups of people would know that if you put more than a few people together they simply won't be able to keep a secret, never mind civil servants with office politics, axes to grind, chips on shoulders, etc. It says more about the people making the claims than the people they're accusing.

All that being said, I do believe that there was a policy of turning a blind eye at presidential advisor level, letting what might happen happen. Sorry, but the hawks are hawks and they don't care about people, bar themselves.

And yes, I would include Bush in that, I believe he allows himself to be puppetted. He's a very stupid man, but he's not a vegetable.

adam

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Originally Posted by seanfhear

one thing that i find hard to grasp about sept11 is how could the security services of such a powerful country be so inept as to allow so many[dedicated terrorists] such easy acess into their country.It was not just four or five but twenty three I think.Thats a lot of terrorists no matter how bad the security agencies are.

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And how do you propose a country as large as America stops unknown terrorists from ever getting into their country? It's what makes this war on terror so idiotic, the idea that you can stop people that want to sacrifice themselves to further their own causes. You can't, you just have to try and solve the route of the problem (what's driving these people to do these things) and hope that you can derail as many terrorist threats as is possible

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Originally Posted by dahamsta

I think the larger conspiracy theories are ridiculous, particularly the muppets who think that the police, fire service and Tom, Dick and Harry are involved. Anyone with any experience at all of groups of people would know that if you put more than a few people together they simply won't be able to keep a secret, never mind civil servants with office politics, axes to grind, chips on shoulders, etc. It says more about the people making the claims than the people they're accusing.

All that being said, I do believe that there was a policy of turning a blind eye at presidential advisor level, letting what might happen happen. Sorry, but the hawks are hawks and they don't care about people, bar themselves.

And yes, I would include Bush in that, I believe he allows himself to be puppetted. He's a very stupid man, but he's not a vegetable.

adam

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I agree with you there.The authorities knew that aeroplanes were vunerable and had been warned of this possibility up to ten years previously.If you were in the terrorism prevention business and with the advent of suicide terrorists it is unlikely that the possibility of this happening would not have been contemplated.One of the reasons given for not dealing with it is that because the american people had not suffered that much from terrorism they would have been unwilling to put up with the restrictions necessary.If the neocons were not complicit then they certainly were only too happy to take advantage ofsept11 to advance their agenda