Are we any good?

I know this may seem an odd title for this post but are we any good as a squad? I know I may look at the team through green tinted specs and in my eyes we are world beaters, but are we? As an international football team considering our resources do we have a team that deserves to be 42nd in the world? We talk about world class players do we have any

Our best players

Given, Finnan, Duff, Keane, Doyle, Reid, Reid for example are any of them world class, do they play for world class teams?

The up and coming stars are they going to be good enough? We wear our hearts on our sleeves on this forum but there is a reality that we have no world class players that teams would walk over broken glass to sign in comparison to other teams around us like France, England, Spain and Portugal who’s teams are littered with some of the best players in the world!! Maybe im having a bad day the fact that Euro 2008 is starting soon, another major competition that we are not part of!!

I think we have a potentially strong starting XI, that would stand up well to some of the teams at Euro 2008 (e.g. Poland, Austria) but we've lacked basic organisation for too long, and it's hard to tell how long it will take to "un-learn" these mistakes

At the moment - no

Potentially - maybe

But, in short....no

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

I think we have a potentially strong starting XI, that would stand up well to some of the teams at Euro 2008 (e.g. Poland, Austria) but we've lacked basic organisation for too long, and it's hard to tell how long it will take to "un-learn" these mistakes

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Exactly. I think it's extremely difficult to tell just how good we are as we had an extremely poor manager for the last campaign. You can only really judge how good a team is when they are managed competently and well organised.

We don't have any players who you can define as "world class" but I would say Dunne comes very close (perhaps that's just me overrating him though) and we have a few players who have proved capable of putting in world class performances in the past. I think once we get back to doing the basics properly we have a good enough team to compete with most teams, as there are plenty of teams in Euro 2008 without any standout players.

i dont think we are up to much , if we beat cyprus, georgia and montenegro home and away , beat bulgaria at home , and get anything off italy at all then i will call it a brilliant campaign with what our management team has to work with...

i am not expecting to be in south africa in 2010 to be honest

Un learn is an interesting take on the topic because surely what you learn at club level would be from the outset looking at "the basics" however how can you move from the day job (as such) to the national team and forget "the basics" of how to ply your trade it doesnt make sence to me. Which has me asking the question in the first place how week in and week out can you perform and then for your country revert back to under 10s football hoofing the ball up the pitch, playing the area not the man and basic errors in passing and distrabution. It doent happen in other professions! imagine if it did!!

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Originally Posted by irishbaz

Un learn is an interesting take on the topic because surely what you learn at club level would be from the outset looking at "the basics" however how can you move from the day job (as such) to the national team and forget "the basics" of how to ply your trade it doesnt make sence to me. Which has me asking the question in the first place how week in and week out can you perform and then for your country revert back to under 10s football hoofing the ball up the pitch, playing the area not the man and basic errors in passing and distrabution. It doent happen in other professions! imagine if it did!!

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international football is supposed to be a higher standard and possibly quicker. skills break down under pressure

a lot of the Irish players play for clubs that do nothing much more than hoof it in anycase

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

a lot of the Irish players play for clubs that do nothing much more than hoof it in anycase

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if we can improve then they will get moves to better teams...

I agree with your point that Irish players play for some clubs that hoof the ball this is one of the points that we havnt got players palying at the highest levels of football however while international football is played at a higher level the basic skills of passing and tackling for highly paid professionals should not break down as often as it has done in matchs I have seen, unacceptable is a word that springs to mind. The key also is against recent teams mistakes were very often made when under no pressure at all!!

If we have a competent manager then there's no reason why we can't emulate the likes of the Swedes or the Czechs who qualify for most of the major finals with a similar standard of player to ours and generally give a very good account of themselves.

The difference is that these teams are used to having a decent manager in charge who is usually tactically astutue and can organise them effectively to get the best out of the resources at his disposal.

We are never going to be as good as a team like Germany, Italy or France if they also have a similarly competent manager to ourselves. It's simple demographics.

To sum up though if the likes of Greece and Denmark can win the European Championsips then there's no reason why we can't at least expect to qualify regularly and even possibly progress from the group stages more often than not.

Interesting question but the addition of "are any of them world class" is irrelevant and unnecessary. Sweden are an example of the standard I'd like Ireland to follow. We have better players in some positions and I don't think they have any world class players - Ibrahimovic is talented but not threatening "world class" status by any stretch.

We need to be better organised and a bit smarter and you'd have to believe that Trap has the ability to achieve this.

I tyink we've got players who can compete against good teams in most positions but the whole thing for me breaks down in central midfield. In the absence of both Reids - let's face it you can't count on either being fit through the campaign - we're woefully substandard. If we can just arrive at a competitive midfield, i.e., not necessarily better than our opponents' midfield, just as good as, then ever thing else would function so much better.

The Garvan/O'Toole/Quinn trio was really encouraging at St. Mary's against England's U21 but it's a big leap of faith to think any could make a difference any time soon to the seniors.

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Originally Posted by RogerMilla

i dont think we are up to much , if we beat cyprus, georgia and montenegro home and away , beat bulgaria at home , and get anything off italy at all then i will call it a brilliant campaign with what our management team has to work with...

i am not expecting to be in south africa in 2010 to be honest

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And if we can do that an away draw in Bulgaria would get us to the play offs, and I'll take that now if it's on offer :D

I reckon we will win home against all bar Italy - 12 points

2 away wins and 2 away draws - 8 points

Total 20 points plus maybe something against Italy

23 points should guarantee 2nd spot

The addition of "are any of them world class" is irrelevant and unnecessary I don’t feel is irrelevant or indeed unnecessary the reason behind this is that every squad needs a leader someone who leads by example we don’t have that at the moment there is no spark none for younger players to look at as a talented role model, who can change the game with skill and passion (Beckham against Greece for example) my point is we don’t have and don’t appear to have any of these players on the horizon. I would be as open as saying a role model for Irish football. We have a team of grafters with varying levels of skill and the depth as you point out in central midfield is very worrying as you point out with the exception of the Reid’s the next choice appears to be Whelan and Miller and they are just not good enough in comparison to the teams we need to be dominating in matches.

I really believe it will come down to if the players listen to Trappatoni and apply what he says. They are mostly decent players and if they minimize their mistakes while playing to his plan, we can do it. Look at the half of the teams who qualified for the Euros e.g. Sweden, Greece, Russia, Czech Republic, Poland, Romania, Croatia, Turkey. I think we can be on par with them if we get our act together. He's been around and knows how to get the job done and he will know by now the team's strengths and weaknesses. Bar Italy, each team in our WC qualifying group is beatable and indeed with Italy, Trap may have something extra special up his sleave in a Jack Charlton sort of way.

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Originally Posted by jbyrne

international football is supposed to be a higher standard and possibly quicker. skills break down under pressure

a lot of the Irish players play for clubs that do nothing much more than hoof it in anycase

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The Premiership is fast and yes there is long ball at times but most games aren't like Jack Charlton LONG BALL football. I'm just thinking of players like Duff,Robbie,Any Reid,Finnan, etc etc. Do they all play long ball.

I think the Irish team lacked proper footbaling tactics and its obvious we don't have enough good players anymore. We were lucky during Charltons period we had so much quality players and even losing a calssy player like Mark Lawrenson and Beglin we still qualified for tournaments. Nowadays we've very few players playing with tops sides. Still fingers crossed we can try and start doing well again.

Yes in my opinion we are one of the good teams in terms of player in the second tier of International teams. Something like this:

1.Romania
2.Croatia
3.Czech's
4.Ivory Coast
5.Russia
6.Ireland
7.Turkey
8.Mexico/USA(Not sure which)
9.Bulgaria
10.Colombia

I didn't put any thought into this list, but I'm just illustating that I believe we have a good set of players.

I honestly believe we have more class than a team like Scotland. If we got some of their organisation we would be a better team. I don't mention commitment because I believe the Irish players are committed and passionate about their country.

Its quite laughable to see teams like the North ahead of us in the rankings, when you compare the two sides. It would be like comparing Leeds to Everton.

We have potentially a very good blend of player. I notice the OP didn't mention McGeady. I believe under trap we *could* emulate Croatia.

Seriously if somehow we could mix S.Ireland, with the two Reids, with McGeady and Duff we would be a really attacking threat. We probably aren't as cultured in our play as the Croats, but there is no reason why Il Trap can't implement this into our game.



Just to note lads, was reading yesterday that when Otto Rehaggel took over Greece he lost his first game 5-1, and they were below 50 in the rankings. Look what they achieved. Obviously we wouldn't have the same depth as them, due to them having just under twice our population but our first team is better.

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Originally Posted by ShamrockIreland

The Premiership is fast and yes there is long ball at times but most games aren't like Jack Charlton LONG BALL football. I'm just thinking of players like Duff,Robbie,Any Reid,Finnan, etc etc. Do they all play long ball.

I think the Irish team lacked proper footbaling tactics and its obvious we don't have enough good players anymore. We were lucky during Charltons period we had so much quality players and even losing a calssy player like Mark Lawrenson and Beglin we still qualified for tournaments. Nowadays we've very few players playing with tops sides. Still fingers crossed we can try and start doing well again.

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Other than Eduardo, what other players Croatian players play for top sides?

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Originally Posted by irishultra

Other than Eduardo, what other players Croatian players play for top sides?

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Your point is that we are now going to suddenly start winning all our games again because Croatia don't have players playing in top sides? What I meant was that we had top inmjternational players and we would find it hard to see the likes or depth nowadays.It has to be said play wonderful football and their players always did. They obviously get taught their footballing skills in the proper manner we don't have that luxury as they all play for English clubs.

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Originally Posted by ShamrockIreland

Your point is that we are now going to suddenly start winning all our games again because Croatia don't have players playing in top sides? What I meant was that we had top inmjternational players and we would find it hard to see the likes or depth nowadays.It has to be said play wonderful football and their players always did. They obviously get taught their footballing skills in the proper manner we don't have that luxury as they all play for English clubs.

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Ya you are right, they have nice weather and have time to play it on the ground growing up not like us sliding about the place having to hoof it upfield in case we lose it.

So 42nd place is a fair reflection of how good/bad we are as an international football team!!! 42nd at least there are only 41 teams rated higher than us but again highlights the fact that our passion outways the reality!!