24 Week Abortions

Anyone reading about the debate between the Tories and Labour in England about reducing the maximum number of weeks a female can choose to abort a fetus at? It currently stands at 24 weeks, the Tories want it initially reduced to 20 weeks, with possible reductions in review, Labour want it maintained at 24 weeks.

Personally I think it's ridiculous that a fetus can be aborted at 24 weeks. I'm pro-choice, but I can't see how it can be considered okay to abort a fetus at 6 months when there has been cases of premature babies being born at this stage and surviving. If the fetus is capable, or even has a chance, of living outside of it's host than it should be given that chance I feel so I'd be in favour of restricting the maximum time back to 20, or even 18 weeks, with special dispensation given in extraordinary circumstances (life of the host in danger, undetected pregnancy caused after an assault), whats peoples opinions on it though?*

* I realise threads on abortion on any forum have a short shelf life before they are consigned to the rubbish before anyone points it out

For what reasons are you pro-choice?

It seems like you are pro-choice until the fetus has a chance of survival outside the womb, and then you are not pro-choice any more.

Is it more acceptable to abort a fetus which couldn't survive outside the womb than one which could?

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Originally Posted by jebus

I realise threads on abortion on any forum have a short shelf life before they are consigned to the rubbish before anyone points it out

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Yeah this is bound to get hijacked pretty soon. :(

I watched some of the report on BBC News last night and was shocked at the numbers. The BBC reported that there are 206,000 terminations per year in England and Wales. I had a quick look for the number of live births per year, which is around the 650,000 (for England & Wales). That means that about 24% of all pregnancies end in termination, which would strike me as extremely high no matter what side of the debate you are on.

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Originally Posted by osarusan

For what reasons are you pro-choice?

It seems like you are pro-choice until the fetus has a chance of survival outside the womb, and then you are not pro-choice any more.

Is it more acceptable to abort a fetus which couldn't survive outside the womb than one which could?

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In my mind yes. I don't consider a fetus a living being until it is able to live independently of it's host/mother, so I have no issues with someone choosing to abort, say, a 2 month fetus as I still don't consider it technically alive

My friend gave birth to twins after 25 weeks.
Girls are in perfect health and just passed their 1st birthday.

I'm pro choice but 24 weeks is too late

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Originally Posted by jebus

In my mind yes. I don't consider a fetus a living being until it is able to live independently of it's host/mother, so I have no issues with someone choosing to abort, say, a 2 month fetus as I still don't consider it technically alive

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Host / Mother:confused:

Very telling use of terminology IMO

My concern is the widely accepted notion that children can live, as you put it "independently" after their birth.

The loss of either or both parents to a child after they are born (whether through accident, neglect, separation, economic necessity...whatever) is a huge disadavantage to the "viability" of that life for "its" future imho.

I'm pro-choice. I feel a foetus is not alive until it's out of the mother.

I'm well aware of the development of the foetus but I still think until the foetus comes out of the mother, it's not alive.

Im against it, if i was ever in the situation i would definetly keep the baby i see very little reason to abort. there is exceptional circumstances all right but it should be just that exceptional looking at the numbers going for abortions there cant be that many exceptional cases.

24 weeks is a discrace. As some one said in the debate the other night it means you could have doctors in one room working to save a baby while in the other room giving an abortion on a baby of the same age.

Exceptional circumstances should include medical reasons, victims of insest, rape, child abuse etc.

Yes but nature and circumstance will take its course if both parents die after a child has been born, both parents could die, but the baby might get picked up by the health services and go on to live, but thats all down to circumstance.

If you were to take a two month old fetus out of a host (I call it that because I assume the female doesn't consider herself a mother) it wouldn't be fully formed and would have died immediatly upon seperation from the female. Two very different scenarios in my opinion

* In response to MyTown

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Originally Posted by superfrank

I'm pro-choice. I feel a foetus is not alive until it's out of the mother.

I'm well aware of the development of the foetus but I still think until the foetus comes out of the mother, it's not alive.

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Think you ll be hard pushed to find support for 9 month abortions :D

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Originally Posted by anto1208

Think you ll be hard pushed to find support for 9 month abortions :D

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Always liked the part in the Simpsons where Kang is running for President as Bill Clinton,

'Abortions for all!' boos from the crowd
'Okay, no abortions for anyone!' boos from the crowd
'Okay, abortions for some, minature American flags for the others' Cheers from the crowd

:D:D

BBC News

Very emotive topic but I suppose at least British MPs honest enough to debate in the first place. Irish politicians are scared of this topic

Seems like they had a number of votes ranging on limits from 12-24 weeks. Labour allowed an open vote on this too.

Almost all abortions under 12 weeks (less than 10%) anyway as seen in this graph so strange to see it was not lowered. Seems medical experts said would make no difference to foetus survival rate when compare 24 to 20 weeks & this apparently is why 24 weeks was set originally.

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Originally Posted by pete

Very emotive topic but I suppose at least British MPs honest enough to debate in the first place. Irish politicians are scared of this topic.

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I was thinking the same watching the news yesterday, there is no way a politician on this island would touch this subject, let alone openly debate it, sad indictment of this island's rooted in Catholicism attitudes to be honest

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Originally Posted by jebus

Personally I think it's ridiculous that a fetus can be aborted at 24 weeks. I'm pro-choice, but I can't see how it can be considered okay to abort a fetus at 6 months when there has been cases of premature babies being born at this stage and surviving.

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They can survive, but not independently and still with a low survival rate (a week makes a big difference at that stage). First scans aren't normally done until 20 weeks (although this may be artificially pushed out in this country due to "ethos" of the hospitals). I don't see how you could logically have the cut off before the first scan which would show up issues in the baby or the mother? Any reduction must be mindful of the medical procedures that show up the problems.

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Originally Posted by crc

The BBC reported that there are 206,000 terminations per year in England and Wales. I had a quick look for the number of live births per year, which is around the 650,000 (for England & Wales). That means that about 24% of all pregnancies end in termination, which would strike me as extremely high no matter what side of the debate you are on.

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Don't forget that also includes terminations of countries like, say for example us. It's not really a fair comparison.

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Originally Posted by anto1208

Im against it, if i was ever in the situation i would definetly keep the baby i see very little reason to abort.

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Is anto short for Antoinette? I always thought you were a bloke tbh.

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Originally Posted by Macy

Don't forget that also includes terminations of countries like, say for example us. It's not really a fair comparison.

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I think my point is entirely fair. According to this website, 5,585 Irish women travelled to Britain in 2005, which represents a tiny proportion of the 206,000 figure quoted by the BBC. If you take out those with Irish addresses that still leaves a figure of 23%.

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Originally Posted by jebus

I was thinking the same watching the news yesterday, there is no way a politician on this island would touch this subject, let alone openly debate it, sad indictment of this island's rooted in Catholicism attitudes to be honest

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Yeah, despite the fact that the Supreme Court ruled in the X case that abortion is permitted in certain circumstances when there is a threat to the life of the mother, neither of the catholic centre-right parties in Ireland have legislated to put that judgment into law, leaving doctors in an extremely difficult legal position when this arises. Labour proposed legislating to take account of the X case judgment at the last general election but there's no way either FF or FG would have agreed to it so it was irrelevant really.

Whenever this has been discussed, most pro-choice groups who have dealt with numerous Irish women going to England for abortions say that a lot of those Irish women do not give their Irish address so the figures may be a lot higher than those simply based on Irish addresses.

On another point, it always surprises me how many of the most militant pro-life types are men though... :confused:

There should be a 24 year abortion limit. ASBOs my arse...

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

There should be a 24 year abortion limit. ASBOs my arse...

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It's good to have him back all the same :)

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Originally Posted by crc

I think my point is entirely fair. According to this website, 5,585 Irish women travelled to Britain in 2005, which represents a tiny proportion of the 206,000 figure quoted by the BBC. If you take out those with Irish addresses that still leaves a figure of 23%.

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That link also says that's an undercount though.

edit - as D13bohs points out

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Originally Posted by GavinZac

There should be a 24 year abortion limit. ASBOs my arse...

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disgraceful comment. Ban that man. He's asking for it, literally.