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did anyone read this. what a fn c u nxt tuesday. seriously the fella is a tw@t of the highest order. Where does he get the idea that its a myth that irish fans go for the craic, and the cheeky prat doesn't even back it up with facts, even more annoying is he had no reason to bring in/mention Irish fans in his piece. Was it in the Sunday Times in Ireland too?
Huh? What was the article about ?
This one?
Along with the Manchester police, two pervasive myths took a bit of a battering during Wednesday night’s Uefa Cup final between Glasgow Rangers and Zenit St Petersburg. The first was the myth of Scottish footballing obduracy and heroism against all the odds, the little team from the small but proud nation digging in and battling, often succumbing, but occasionally bringing forth a magnificent and unlikely triumph against overwhelming adversity.
You’ll be familiar with that myth, epitomised by Archie Gemmill single-handedly routing the hapless Dutch at the 1978 World Cup when, tragically, as ever, it was all too late. The commentators on Wednesday dug deep into the myth box with tales of Rangers’ “extraordinary journey against all the odds” to reach the final; presumably a similarly extraordinary journey, involving similar odds, to the one successfully undertaken by their Russkie opponents. They both reached the final having beaten the same number of mid-market opponents. I don’t know if you could consider Rangers the underdogs on Wednesday, either; it is a club with much greater home support than St Petersburg. Nor did they play with what any rational, sane person could describe as obduracy or heroism; they were witless, guileless and threatless, perhaps the most boring team to have reached a European final since the likes of Juventus and Inter Milan thrust catenaccio upon us all at the end of the 1960s. Except, in Rangers’ case, with rather less competence.
For good sectarian reasons (I don’t like Celtic) I was cheering on Rangers at first, but switched allegiance midway through the first half when it became apparent that they had not the slightest intention of doing anything so recherché as to attack their opponent’s penalty area. “It’s just like watching Millwall,” one of my sons said despairingly and begged to be allowed to go to bed. The Russians were fluid and confident, playing football as it is supposed to be played; they deserved their win. In fairness, this myth of little Scotland the brave is one imposed upon the sweaties, in somewhat patronising tones, from south of the border. But they have become accustomed, over the years, to buying into it wholesale. Was it ever true?
The other myth which came crashing down was that bizarre fictional construct, the cheerful, whole-hearted, peaceable - if on occasion a little inebriated, but only ever in a really nice way - Scottish football supporter. With his kilt and his can of McEwan’s Export and his blue-and-white flag and his beery, welcoming embrace for the supporter of any other nation (except maybe those from England). The Scottish fans never do the stuff England fans do; they are there to cheer on their team and bring nothing but credit to their nation, loved wherever they go. This has always struck me as being utter bilge and scarcely less patronising than all that Scotland The Brave stuff; I can remember goalposts being demolished at Wembley and the whole thing being put down to good-natured exuberance when, if England fans had been involved, it would have meant expulsion from any number of international tournaments and anguished speeches from politicians in the House of Commons. Myths are important; people cleave to them and they exert a certain force. Guinness, for example, sold an awful lot of alcohol in Europe based upon the equally inaccurate stereotype of Irish football supporters; good-natured, all of ’em, love the craic, too-rye-ay, etc. I have heard Scottish politicians smugly compare their country’s fans favourably to those who follow the English oppressor; well, not any more they won’t. Every cloud, etc.
The battle of Piccadilly Gardens was, we are told, the consequence of the actions of a “minority”. Well, maybe, but not a very small minority, to judge from the television pictures and newspaper photographs I’ve seen. The cause of the riot was put down to a giant television screen failing, so that the supporters could not watch the game. With that magnificent moronic intent familiar to anyone who has watched an enraged mob in action, the fans attacked even those engineers who arrived to try to repair the electronics. The police described the fans as acting like a “pack of wolves”, although I’ve never seen wolves behave like that. Wolves are usually possessed of pragmatic purpose, for a start. Fifteen police officers were treated for injuries and meanwhile, inside the stadium, one Russian fan was stabbed. At one point, ambulances could not enter Manchester city centre without a police escort.
Even after all this, excuses and caveats have sprung from the lips of those who should know better. This stuff about a “minority”, for a start, which is always trotted out, as if it somehow excuses the behaviour. And it’s been said that these weren’t Scottish fans, these were Rangers fans - another attempt to keep that old myth alive. You wouldn’t find Celtic supporters behaving in such a manner, we were told, forgetting that Celtic risked being kicked out of Europe when one of its cheerful, too-rye-ay supporters ran onto the pitch and attempted to clump the opposing goalkeeper. The truth is that these days football hooliganism is a truly global brand, with an energetic franchise operating in every European city, Glasgow not excepted. And if you doubt that, wait until the Dutch and Germans get together later this summer.
Its not in the 'Irish' version today.
He has made a living as the self styled politically incorrect fell who sees himslf as a gunslinger type journo.I think I would be more annoyed if I was Scottish reading that article.The problem with his acerbic humour is that there is very little humour in it, only childish resentments.
Can't say he bothers me.
I know Ros were shagged something awful by your worst enemy, I sympathise with your pain and I can guess your current state of equilibrium butQuote:
Originally Posted by paul_oshea
maybe Liddle is just saying it is a streotype, it is a myth that Irish Fans go for the Craic, maybe Liddle thinks that Irish fans go for the football.
Quite harmless.
A bit of both really, the proportions can vary.
I don't go to away matches "for the craic". I go to support the team and to see the game. Anything else (like "the craic") is secondary.
However, the implication of the piece about the Irish fans is that they don't behave which is untrue. Obviously there will always be a few idiots but 98% of the fans behave. My theory for that is because the English fans don't and we like to show ourselves as being different ;)
"Who wrote that article.
I'll tell you who, Bill - Ron Liddle.
He ran off with a young one, Bill"
haha correct Frank, Ron Liddle is well know for his rants, the man is a fool more to be pitied than anything else. As Cheifo says if I was a Scot I would be less charitable. Expcect a few letters to the editor and in a few weeks Ron will have found someone else to annoy. Great sports section in the Times but Liddle and Stephan Jones do lower the stadard.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbrett
A journalist working for the Times may immediately draw suspicions that they may be half good at their job, or indeed capable of writing a coherent and well based article on a topical issue; Ranger's trials and tribulations in Manchester being such an issue.
However, Mr Liddle appears totally incapable of doing such a thing. How anyone can claim to dislike Celtic due to suppose sectarianism whilst professing a preference to those draped in red, white, and blue, waving Northern Ireland flags and bellowing "up to their knees in Fenian Blood" is beyond most people blessed with a little common sense.
Secondly, there seems an undertone of unhappiness at the reputation that Irish fans appear to have established for themselves whilst watching football matches. In an effort to lay his own stamp, and cast a ruling eye over this 'myth' Liddle merely states that it isn't true. Well that's that then Rodney!
Finally, Mr Liddle finishes his attack by stating that we should know that this trouble in Manchester, with hundred's of Scotttish football fan's chasing the law an order down the street was going to happen. After all, remember AC Milan when one Celtic fan exchanged a playful slap with Dida.
The mind boggles, it really does.
Don't see the problem with the article. I agree with the basic premise of it that the aforementioned stereotypes about both the Irish and the Scottish are rubbish.
Did anyone else hear the radio interview between the Dunphy and Liddle following this? Turned into a love in with Liddle confessing to being honoured to speak to Dunphy, who he used to watch play for Millwall.Quote:
Originally Posted by frankbrett
But don't that 2% just ruin it for the rest?Quote:
Originally Posted by OwlsFan
Some of the most sub human Irish people I have ever met have been away following the Republic. Had a few bad experiences but people are generally good footballing folk. Every country has its problems to different extents.
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Surely there’s a Lens Crafters or a Four Eyes down the street Rod where you can go and change out those not-so-rose-colored glasses.[/FONT][/SIZE]
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[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Some 70,000 fans traveled with Celtic to Seville in 2003 and participated in perhaps the most peaceful and sociable football ‘maneuver’ of recent times. The club and its supporters have been lauded across the world because of this and the head of Uefa was even moved to comment……… (and, is there a problem that you know of with Irish supporters? I can’t speak for each and ever one of them but police forces and indeed nations across the world have had nothing but praise for the Irish fan. They, like the Celtic fans, have made friends everywhere, and have been invited back time and again. Your assessment is: “Guinness, for example, sold an awful lot of alcohol in Europe based upon the equally inaccurate stereotype of Irish football supporters; good-natured, all of ’em, love the craic, too-rye-ay, etc.” The Irish sport fan is as clean cut as they come. Did not those folks at Croke Park stand and show respect for the English national anthem in the first ever rugby international, two years ago?) [/FONT][/SIZE]
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[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]The perception before the game (in Seville) was (among those on mainland Europe) that there might be serious trouble in Southern Spain because so many ‘British’ fans were on their way. But those thousands in hooped shirts dispelled that notion with flying colors and showed themselves as great ambassadors for Celtic F.C., Scottish football, and more importantly, themselves. There are people out there Rod who actually like to go and watch football for football’s sake![/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]You choose however to focus on one yob running across the pitch at Parkhead to finger flick the AC Milan goalkeeper (Dida) on the ear – his reaction being to fall to the ground like he was hit by a sniper. Fortunately the cameras don’t lie, Milan showing the requisite embarrassment, Uefa the logical approach, for once, and the Brazilian ending up with a well merited sanction.[/FONT][/SIZE]
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[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Rangers did themselves no favors at all at the City of Manchester Stadium. The team was way out of its depth – surely Everton would have contributed to a far less one-sided Uefa Cup final – while a section of the club’s fans showed themselves up for what they are around the streets of the city.[/FONT][/SIZE]
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[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Should you need any further reference on the Ibrox club, you may want to click your mouse on to youtube and type in Rangers fans. There you will see and hear an assortment of anti-Papal songs for which the club has been penalized in recent times.[/FONT][/SIZE]
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[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Your view on Scottish football, Celtic F.C. and Irish fans, from behind the glass high up at the City of Manchester Stadium, Rod, is horribly distorted.[/FONT][/SIZE]
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[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]One last thing Rod! Your recollection of Scottish football from thirty years ago is slightly off the mark. [/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]You wrote: “Archie Gemmill single-handedly routing the hapless Dutch at the 1978 World Cup when, tragically, as ever, it was all too late.” It wasn’t too late. There were 22 minutes left and had Ally McLeod’s rampaging team kept their goal intact and gone on to score another, it would have been they, and not Holland, who progressed to the next round in Argentina.[/FONT][/SIZE]
Celtic fans have won awards for their behaviour.
Scotland fans have won awards for their behaviour
Ireland fans have won awards for their behavious
England fans and English clubs have either been banned or caused huge amount of trouble throughout Europe for the last 35 years.
Rangers have been banned from Europe and received serious warnings from Uefa for their behavious.
Notice any common ground. Putting Rangers in with the Tartan Army is unfair as the scum that cause problems for Rangers more often than not do not even support Scotland and would rather Liddles beloved England win. These guys have more in common with Liddle than they do with and Irish fan. Why did he not make that comparison.
EXACTLY!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsujin1979
For all is cod hardman "I support Millwall" rubbish he spouts in his articles he took a different tack when confronted on radio about it. Totally spineless. Only problem is it was Dunphy who confronted him so as usual Eamo totally flip flopped to the point were he was only short of asking him out on a date...:rolleyes:
To Mark12345 I say....Edit post....
Give a ****** like Liddle enough rope..A wanna be John Junor (1970's Sunday Express raging racist columnist). He has been posting on Millwall Online using the pseudonym Monkeymfc. I'll let the Guardian article speak for itself.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2010...hwitz-millwall. What a clown.
What a ****, why cant he just admit he is a racist cnut and get it over with
"Ron Liddle. I'll tell you who he is. Hes the lad who ran away and left his wife for a young one" Eammon Dunphy.
he was gonna get the editor's job at the Independent as well.........not now. Haha.