English football...

...now the best?

This will be four years in a row now with an English team in the final and two years in a row with three English teams in the semis. All four English sides qualified from the group stages and they all made the quarters as well. No other country had four teams qualify from their group.

Last year all four English sides won their groups and, again, no other country had four teams qualify from the group stages.

2005/06 was the last year only three English teams made it out of the group stages and no country had four sides qualify from the group stages.

In 2004/05 four English sides qualified from the group stages and, again, no other country had three teams qualify.

2003/04 was the last time that a country other than England had four sides qualify from the group stages when four Spanish sides did it (Real Madrid, Celta :eek:, Deportivo :eek: and Real Sociedad :eek:). Only three English sides made the group stages that year and all three made the second round.

Before 2003/04, it was the old two group stage format.

Using the CL as the measure, over the last five seasons, English teams are doing better in Europe than any other countries.

They have the best top 4 in Europe. Outside of that no.

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Originally Posted by Roadend

They have the best top 4 in Europe. Outside of that no.

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Id agree with that.

I prefer watching Spanish football but you can't dispute the consistency of the top 4 english clubs in the CL

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Originally Posted by Roadend

They have the best top 4 in Europe. Outside of that no.

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But how can you be so sure?

Other teams from Spain have qualified: Celta were relegated that season and have returned. Real Sociedad were relegated last year. I don't know exactly what went wrong for Deportivo but in 2004/05 they finished bottom of their CL group and, AFAIK, they haven't played any European football this season. This year Valencia finished bottom of their CL group and they've changed managers twice since. Villareal made the semis in 2006 and have gone backward since. Last year Osasuna went out at the qualifier rounds. Only Real and Barca have been consistent-ish in the CL.

EDIT: I forgot about Betis as well.

Newcastle were the last English side outside of the current top four to reach the CL in 2002/03.

Spanish football isnt as good as it could be at the moment because teams are at the end of or the beginning of a cycle , Barca will be under new management in the summer and probably need to get rid of a player or two , I can see Real Madrid making a real mark on Europe next season ,Villareal are a good solid team with some flair players but I cant really see them challenging for Europe for a year or two they have the makings of a great team , Atleti will be exciting to watch but very frustratingly inconsistent and if Valencia stay up and get in any decent manager in they should be back up the table following the haimes Koeman made of it

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Originally Posted by superfrank

But how can you be so sure?

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Because their record in the UEFA Cup is nothing special

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Originally Posted by superfrank

Other teams from Spain have qualified: Celta were relegated that season and have returned. Real Sociedad were relegated last year. I don't know exactly what went wrong for Deportivo but in 2004/05 they finished bottom of their CL group and, AFAIK, they haven't played any European football this season. This year Valencia finished bottom of their CL group and they've changed managers twice since. Villareal made the semis in 2006 and have gone backward since. Last year Osasuna went out at the qualifier rounds. Only Real and Barca have been consistent-ish in the CL.

Newcastle were the last English side outside of the current top four to reach the CL in 2002/03.

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All of which reinforces the point...There's absolutely no competition for CL places in England, there is elsewhere.

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Originally Posted by DaveyCakes

Because their record in the UEFA Cup is nothing special

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The CL is the more prestigious competition. The UEFA Cup is decreasing in value every year.

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Originally Posted by DaveyCakes

All of which reinforces the point...There's absolutely no competition for CL places in England, there is elsewhere.

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The way I see it, there isn't much difference between the quality of the other teams in Spain bar Real and Barca.

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Originally Posted by superfrank

The CL is the more prestigious competition. The UEFA Cup is decreasing in value every year.

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That may be so, but it's the only European competition available to any English team outside the top 4.

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Originally Posted by superfrank

The way I see it, there isn't much difference between the quality of the other teams in Spain bar Real and Barca.

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I don't understand your point here.

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Originally Posted by DaveyCakes

I don't understand your point here.

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Real and Barca consistently finish in the top four but the other two places have been spread out over seven different teams in the last few years.

To me, this indicates that there isn't much difference between these seven sides. It could be anyone of them getting into the CL. None of them are head and shoulders above the rest.

And the fact that two of these sides have been relegated in recent years suggests that this trend of averageness continues all the way down the league.

A team that reaches the CL knock-out stages can be relegated or rlegation-threatened in the same season or a few seasons later because there are so many teams of similar ability.

That's the case in every league in Europe. Take out the top few (be it 4 in England, 2 in Spain, whatever) and the rest are much of a muchness. Are you honestly suggesting that Everton are light years ahead of Bolton, for example?

Do people who proclaim the Premiership to be the best league in the world actually watch matches that don't involve the top 4? I only ask because I can't see how anyone watching Everton v Bolton, Villa v Wigan and so on could make this statement. The standard is just terrible truth be told

I believe that you can get a season ticket for Bayern Munich for as little as E80 and can get into Bundelegia games for as little as E9, they have terraces, you can drink beers in the stand and the kick off times are fan friendly, and their league appears competative.

Does the English Premier league not appear to have sold its soul in order for 4 of its teams to have a better chance of becomming European Champions.

Lets face it can anybody seriously see anybody challengeing these 4 teams for a champions league spot* let alone being champions.

*I know Everton are running Liverpool close

What is in it for the other teams, everything is relative if say Aston Villa finish 6th and make £10 million in a season which is probably more than any European side , it will still be dwarfed by those in the top 4 of the EPL. They may be a richer club with better players but because everything is relative have less chance of being successfull and ticket prices/etc are increasingly prohibitive for the average fan. The Emporers new clothes ?

Better to be a Bundelegia fan I suspect, forgo major TV money and success in Europe to enable the club to remain 'local'

The Premiership is doing well now, but that won't last. Eventually all these investors will realise it's impossible to displace the established clubs and clubs like Villa, Man City, even Liverpool can and very probably will lose their sugar daddies. They may then go to the continent, where players are cheaper and you don't necessarily have to spend £500m to assemble a championship-winning team.

In short, English football is the best, but the clubs are living on borrowed money, and it surely can't last.

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Originally Posted by Cymro

In short, English football is the best, but the clubs are living on borrowed money, and it surely can't last.

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And borrowed time.

I agree, these things go in cycles. It will revert back to Italy, Germany or Spain again.