Kosovo declares independence

I don't know if anyone noticed but Kosovo declared its independence today. Minister Ahern is recommending that Ireland recognise its independence. There could be trouble ahead as Russia definitely won't and Serbia considers the declaration null and void. Fortunately pro-Western president Tadic scraped in in the presidential elections, the loony he was running against was quite pro-Russian and the two elements could have created further friction. Romania, Cyprus and Slovakia won't recognise its independence either so far.

Historically, has Kosovo ever been independent?

Never.

Its a bit of a strange one really. Im sure people would be sympathetic to their cause but with no history of independence and most people describing the people who want independence as "kosovar-albanians" it would be a can of worms to just accept their independence no questions asked. Should we be as sympathetic to the Basque, Catalan or Breton? Or is it ok to just accept their independence because we dont respect Serbia as much as Spain or France?

It's part of the reason Russia is so against it. The recognition of a concentrated ethnic group that wants independence would leave questions about Chechnia, Ossetia etc. Although they're also trying to flex their political muscles and there's always between a certain solidarity between the two traditionally Orthodox Slavic nations.

Albanians are believed to have hit the majority in the region mid/late 19th century. As you point out, what makes their claim legitimate and others not? Without the risk of sounding racist Albanians in the region increase their population at a rapid rate and are a destabilising group in the region. Albanians make up and ever increasing part of Macedonia and parts of Montenegro and Southern Serbia. Where do you draw the line?

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

I don't know if anyone noticed but Kosovo declared its independence today. Minister Ahern is recommending that Ireland recognise its independence. There could be trouble ahead as Russia definitely won't and Serbia considers the declaration null and void. Fortunately pro-Western president Tadic scraped in in the presidential elections, the loony he was running against was quite pro-Russian and the two elements could have created further friction. Romania, Cyprus and Slovakia won't recognise its independence either so far.

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Why does being pro-Russian make someone a loony? Particularly a Slavic person..

He did not say that the reason he was a loony was due to the fact he was pro russian.

He didn't give any other reason for calling him a loony, so what is one to assume?

When I heard about this the first thing that came to mind was the
Lakotah (var. sp.) own declaration of withdrawal "..from previous agreements and treaties imposed by the United States Government on the Lakotah people." in December 2007
http://www.republicoflakotah.com/

Sizeable chunk of the Plains gone, the basic arguement is the the US has previous broken these same agreements and treaties so as the US are not preforming the indigious tribes are removing themselves from the States.
http://www.republicoflakotah.com/map.html
The elders were mandated in 1974 to get Intenational rights and protection of indigenious rights and after withdraw from the US.

Rapid City Journal
http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/arti...e335271152.txt

USA Today (with a picture of sitting bull).
http://blogs.usatoday.com/ondeadline...-withdraw.html

Article quoting Actor and Activist Runny Means
http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/12/21/5946/
"..Meanwhile, the delegation has delivered copies of the letter to the embassies of Bolivia, Venezuela, Chile and South Africa. “We’re asking for recognition,” Means said, adding that Ireland and East Timor are “very interested” in the declaration."

Regards Kosovo, they have not been an effectual part of Serbia for a number of years with UNMIC (blue uniformed cops duties include border and customs) and K-FOR Nato troops looking after security. I only went there once coming up from Podgorica and stopping off in Pec (roman char.) and Prizen (roman char.) in 2003.
Prizen is a nice clean albanian town, with the occasionaly power cut back then.
I travelled down to Albania for an Ireland game sharing a taxi with someone from Dokovica (roman sp.) who worked for one of the International Organisations (I think A-FOR, Nato troops in Albania but I can't remember). The International community has invested alot in Kosovo. Map of Kosovo
http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/europe/kosovo_pol98.jpg

It is true that an Albanian language dialect is named Kosovo and there was incidents of Yugoslav customs confiscating Albanian language books at the border in the early 1980's but I disagree with this move away from Serbia. It is a pity that some Nationalists gain power temporarily and make huge, perhaps irraparable decisions in the name of Mandate ( like the plebiscite in Montenegro).

One simple rule of self-determination in Yugoslavia ( former, current, future) is asking "where is the football or basketball team?". If there is a tradition of representing the region in at least these sports then maybe there is an arguement for self-determination.

Poor Student, I realise you have a close interest in this and wonder what different sources you use to come to the point of view above.

How will the affect the Irish Army that are currently peace keeping in the Kosovo region?

Not only Russia is against but also a number of EU states (Spain, Cyprus, Greece, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary and Malta), China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philipines, India, Sri Lanka and many other Asian states, nearly the entire Latin America is against (Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Venezuela & Cuba among others) and the vast majority of African Union countries. I saw a report on B92 yesterday and they said that Kosvo would be lucky to be recogbnised by about 40 states (and that would be pushing it.

We are threading in very dangerous waters. many states supporting the Serb poistion are very worried about the ripple affect it will have on ethnic minorities in their own states. Indians, Sri Lankans and Congolese are reportingly bricking it.

Of the 15 members of the UN security council, approx 7 have come out against it.

Just wondering will Kosovo seek unification with Albania?

Hmm. Independence soon for Tetovo too? Or were those Ethnically Albanian Separatists the bad guys...

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Originally Posted by DaveyCakes

Why does being pro-Russian make someone a loony? Particularly a Slavic person..

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He's the leader of the Serbian ultra-nationalist Radical Party. Being pro-Russian is not prudent for Serbia. He had been talking about allowing Russia to set up military post in Serbia. Serbia's best path for future development lies with the West and European Union.

As far as I know the declaration is following the principles of the Ahtisaari plan and I think the prevents union with Albania.

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Originally Posted by ifk101

Just wondering will Kosovo seek unification with Albania?

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I was wondering that myself.

Kosovars were waving Albanian flags on the streets rather than a Kosovan flag (only saw it today - blue & yellow).

There's no talk of unification. Possibly Albania don't want to antagonise Serbia but maybe 10 or 20 years down the line

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Originally Posted by Partizan

Not only Russia is against but also a number of EU states (Spain, Cyprus, Greece, Slovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Hungary and Malta), China, Indonesia, Malaysia, Philipines, India, Sri Lanka and many other Asian states, nearly the entire Latin America is against (Brazil, Argentina, Chile, Venezuela & Cuba among others) and the vast majority of African Union countries. I saw a report on B92 yesterday and they said that Kosvo would be lucky to be recogbnised by about 40 states (and that would be pushing it.

We are threading in very dangerous waters. many states supporting the Serb poistion are very worried about the ripple affect it will have on ethnic minorities in their own states. Indians, Sri Lankans and Congolese are reportingly bricking it.

Of the 15 members of the UN security council, approx 7 have come out against it.

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I think the US line (rightly or wrongly)is that:

1. By attacking Kosovo in the 90's the Serbs have lost the moral authority to govern Kosovo
2. Since then the Serbian government has had no authority in most of Kosovo so calling it part of Serbia is meaningless when the majority has expresed a wish to be independent

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

It's part of the reason Russia is so against it. The recognition of a concentrated ethnic group that wants independence would leave questions about Chechnia, Ossetia etc.

Where do you draw the line?

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The People's Republic of Cork hopefully :)

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Originally Posted by Poor Student

He's the leader of the Serbian ultra-nationalist Radical Party. Being pro-Russian is not prudent for Serbia. He had been talking about allowing Russia to set up military post in Serbia. Serbia's best path for future development lies with the West and European Union.

As far as I know the declaration is following the principles of the Ahtisaari plan and I think the prevents union with Albania.

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In your opinion...

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Originally Posted by jebus

The People's Republic of Cork hopefully :)

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Only if we tighten up the immigration laws.

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Originally Posted by John83

Only if we tighten up the immigration laws.

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I wouldnt worry about that lads :p