Ireland line-up under Trapattoni

Right, reading that Denis O Brien thread has got me right effed off.

Football.

The statto's and knowledge merchants among you (fair play) seem to reckon Trappers likes to play 4-2-3-1. Handy, seeing as a lot of formation threads in previous months have highlighted our unsuitability to the traditional 4-4-2 given our current playing pool and have advocated a more imaginative midfield/attacking approach.

So I thought over the coming months(building up to the Serb game and beyond) people could use this thread to discuss what our likely line-up and shape/formation will/should be under our new Don. What others have mentioned here on foot is that Trappers is no respecter of reputation and will play form players. Good.

So taking current form and injuries into account, who is the first 11 in this new fangled 4-2-3-1 set-up. (also is there any hint at all from Trappers past that he might stick with our old tried and trusted 4-4-2?)

Given
Kelly Dunne Johno ?killer?
Carsley S. Reid
Duff Keane McGeady
Morrison

An awful amount of tinkering could be done with that midfield/attack. Doyle(form) for Clint (can robbie stay up top by himself?). Ireland/Hunt for McGeady/Duff. A Reid in the hole etc.....
Also might he sacrifice and attacking player in the 'keane position' for a more solid, dare I say it, defensive one?

Problems.
Who can play as the main striker if Doyle isn't doing it? I have my doubts about him personally. Murphy? Clint's purple patch will more than likely disappear as quick as it came on.
The two behind the attacking 4. Have we anyone there at the moment apart from the two above. Miller I suppose :eek:. Garvan, O'Toole etc are untested at this level as yet.
Full backs.
:ball:

Irelands Best Team at Moment

Given
S Finnan R Dunne J O Shea D O Dea
D Duff S Reid A Reid A Mc Geady
R Keane D Murphy

1. Get Steve Finnan back
2. Get alternative to O Shea at Centre Back
3. Maybe O Dea but then we require a left back
4. Any suggestions? All I know there is no place for S Kelly.
5. Steven Reid? - Questions have to be asked!!
6. Kevin Doyle needs a kick up the arse
7. Owen Garvan can perhaps play his way into contention?
8. As might James Mc Carthy
9. Maybe Joey O Brien might become a holding midfielder?
10. Not holding out much hope for A Stokes, S Long and S Hunt
11. A Keogh has potential as has D Gibson and D Potter

We have a backbone of a team. Good Luck Giovanni.. I am sure you will do a great job. I am looking forward to supporting the new regieme. One issue I will touch on now and will definetly kick up fuss closer to our next competititve is the lack of supporters songs. Come On You Boys in Green and Stand Up For the Boys In Green are both old and when sang constantly at games - embarrassing.. I will leave that for another day though.

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Originally Posted by BigmanCas

Irelands Best Team at Moment

Given
S Finnan R Dunne J O Shea D O Dea
D Duff S Reid A Reid A Mc Geady
R Keane D Murphy

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If you're going to include Finnan, why not Andy O'Brien? I'd have him ahead of John O'Shea at centre half in a minute
O'Dea has barely played this season, and he hasn't really got the pace for a full back, think he'll be a centre half in the long term
That midfield looks very weak defensively, and Steven Reid will have to do a lot of the fetching and carrying by himself.
Duff on the right?
Murphy is having a decent run at the moment, but I'd have Morrison ahead of him. I'd even consider Keogh on the basis that he would be a better foil for Robbie Keane

Im looking forward to what tactics and formations Geo adopts with Ireland. I think we badly needed a move away from the british style of football and considering the players we have at our disposal and particularly our weaknesses (CM) im interested in seeing what approach Geo takes.

Apparently he's a big fan of Robbie, who is our best player in my opinion and i hope he will set up the team to get the best out of RK. Something that hasnt been done since 2002 imo.

We have decent players in a number of positions yet we arent so strong in others, so hopefully Trap will get the most out of strengths (Dunne, Given, Duff, McG, Keane, Doyle, Reid) and min our weaknesses in CM, LB etc. I'd like to see him try a few new things in our upcoming friendlies.

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Originally Posted by tetsujin1979

That midfield looks very weak defensively, and Steven Reid will have to do a lot of the fetching and carrying by himself.

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I think that whilst Andy Reid isn't an orthodox defensive midfielder or a fantastic tackler, the fact that he'll sit deep, has good awareness and positioning would mean that he would inevitably help Steven Reid to protect the back four.

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Originally Posted by Bottle of Tonic

R
also is there any hint at all from Trappers past that he might stick with our old tried and trusted 4-4-2?
:ball:

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I don't think we have the success recently to call our 4-4-2 trusted....

Taking Finnan as retired, who would people like to see right full?

Stephen Kelly? Joey O'Brien? Steven Reid has played there before IIRC.

Personally I would like to see O'Brien get a chance, but I'll admit I haven't seen him play much recently.

I'm kind of thinking that optimistically we could have:

Given
Finnan Dunne A. O'Brien O'Shea/Kilbane
McGeady S. Reid A. Reid
Keane Duff
Doyle

Maybe push Keane up front with Doyle in a more regular 4-4-2.

With what we have at the moment....

Given
J. O'Brien Dunne McShane O'Shea/Kilbane
Duff Carsley S. Reid A. Reid
Doyle Keane

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jmurphyc

I think that whilst Andy Reid isn't an orthodox defensive midfielder or a fantastic tackler, the fact that he'll sit deep, has good awareness and positioning would mean that he would inevitably help Steven Reid to protect the back four.

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As long as A.Reid is fit enough, which he obviously feels he is, then I don't see any problems with A.Reid - S.Reid partnership. They're both positionally sound and have been playing deep midfield roles for their clubs. I must have said it 4 or 5 times by now but S.Reid's movement and positioning against Arsenal was something that really surprised me. It's that type of movement and intelligence that's the single most important thing to playing an passing game. Never in a million years would I have considered Reid a playmaker before I saw him this week.

Apologies for posting this for probably the millionth time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Evd4iHPypcg

Watch Naka for that entire clip (the 2nd player to touch the ball). Watch his movement and his awareness. He just plays simple passes but his reading of the game is amazing. Put 4 players as intelligent as that together and they'd pass any team off the park.

The reason I'm bringing that up again is because it's where we've been falling behind the other European nations (ourselves and the British teams). Everyone keeps mentioning technical ability. Technical ability to me is the ability with your feet. England certainly have some of the most technically gifted players in the world so that's not their problem. It's the tactical awareness we're lacking imo. Anyway, at one point Reid's movement against Arsenal was quite like the clip I posted above.

In Andy Reid we've obviously got a genius of a player in terms of intelligence and an amazing passer of the ball.

In S.Ireland we've got a player that rarely loses possession, keeps things simple for the most part but is always capable of producing that one moment of magic.

I'd definitely favour playing Duff and McGeady on their "wrong" sides on a 5 man midfield. There's no point in playing them as wingers if there's nobody to cross to. At least playing them on the right and left respectively allows them to link up more freely, play through balls and get in a few shots. Plus playing wingers is too direct for my liking. ;) In fairness, though, I'd rather not have the 2 Reid's sitting deep, giving the balls out to the wingers, the wingers then running down the byline and trying to get that perfect cross in. Way too predictable in this day and age. We have to get our players moving and linking up better.

I think Keane would be suited to playing as the main striker in that system. If Totti can do I don't see why Keane can't.

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Originally Posted by BigmanCas

10. Not holding out much hope for A Stokes, S Long and S Hunt
11. A Keogh has potential as has D Gibson and D Potter

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I find this strange. For starters S Hunt is an established prem player who has played at a consistently decent level in what is widely regarded as the second best league in the world for 2 seasons but you rate Keogh, Gibson and Potter ahead of him???? HA!!!

I'd personally also rate Stokes and Long ahead of the 3 you mentioned. I don't think Potter has a hope of featuring under TRap or being a top level midfielder

Gibson is harder to call - one young players are with big clubs there always tend to be more hype around them - whethre its justiifed or not I'm not sure.

Keogh I don't know - didn't look that good with Ireland last year.........

My team would be:
.................Given
....Kelly Dunne O'Shea Kilbane
...........S Reid A Reid
....... McGeady Ireland Duff
................Keane

Obvioulsly we wouldn't be able to lump it up from the back!!

Looking back at Trapattoni's Italian squads, I think Doyle will start. There might also be room for Alan Lee

In 2002 and 2004 he selected Vieri and another big striker (Delvecchio and Corradi) in his squads. Hopefully the days of replacing midgets with more midgets are over.

I read this morning he is a friend of S Erikson, so i would expect S Ireland to come back, and possibly Dunne to be captain if he takes Eriksons advice. He is also reported to be a fan of Stephen Reid

I can see us lining up something like this

-------------- Given --------------

Finnan?? Dunne (c) O'Brien?? Kilbane

Ireland --- Reid --- Carsley --- Duff

--------- Doyle --- Keane ---------

Hunt could come in for Duff for his extra defensive options, JOSH or Joey O'Brien might come in anywhere along the back 4 if some of the retirees can't be tempted back. He has gone 4-5-1 in the past but i can't see him dropping Robbie Keane, and I reckon he would think we would be to lightweght up front with only Robbie

i know there are loads of possibilities, but surely, please, can Kilbane not be finished???

Please

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Originally Posted by olegunnar

i know there are loads of possibilities, but surely, please, can Kilbane not be finished???

Please

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Not until someone who can do a better job at left back comes along. I'm far from his biggest fan but we have no other option

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Originally Posted by backtowalsall

Looking back at Trapattoni's Italian squads, I think Doyle will start. There might also be room for Alan Lee

In 2002 and 2004 he selected Vieri and another big striker (Delvecchio and Corradi) in his squads.

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Aye but with Benfica he had Nuno Gomez. He'll go with whatever he thinks is best and I don't think Lee is anywhere near that level.

Gomez is half an inch under 6ft, taller than both Keane and Doyle though. He certainly poses a physical threat and is and much more of an all rounder than Keane.

We have potentially (what I call!) 3 top class deep lying attackers that can do teams alot of damage in Ireland, Duff and McGready - I'd luv to see these 3 get a chance to play together but it would have to be in a 4-2-3-1 formation.

They all pose differnet problems for defenders and if trap could fit them into a system we could be on to something.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kennedmc

We have potentially (what I call!) 3 top class deep lying attackers that can do teams alot of damage in Ireland, Duff and McGready - I'd luv to see these 3 get a chance to play together but it would have to be in a 4-2-3-1 formation.

They all pose differnet problems for defenders and if trap could fit them into a system we could be on to something.

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Stephan Ireland showed in Bratislava that he has an inability to defend. We need guys in midfield that fight for possession and as of yet Ireland has not showed he can do this. He has NO defensive positional sense.

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Originally Posted by BigmanCas

Stephan Ireland showed in Bratislava that he has an inability to defend. We need guys in midfield that fight for possession and as of yet Ireland has not showed he can do this. He has NO defensive positional sense.

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You seem to know nothing about football,
did you watch the Machester derby last weekend
he was one of the best players on the park.......:rolleyes:

Stephen Ireland is or will become one of Irelands best players...

Not doubting it for a minute. In fact I did watch the game and was impressed. He has undoubtedly got bags of skill but International football is a totally different game. Stephan Ireland will not play in a Trappatoni 4-4-2 IMO