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What exactly happened the eircom Park project, which in hindsight I'd love to have seen completed? Our own 45k (?) seated purpose built atmospheric football stadium.
What was promised by Bertie as an alternative and why did that not materialise?
Could the government have done more to support football during the Celtic Tiger years? If so, how? was it an opportunity missed for meaningful investment?
Measured / factual comment only please.
In a nutshell - politic both party and internal fai.Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuttgart88
All was going well until Bertie Bowl proposed.
FAI very reluctant to get onboard the white elephant.
Pressure came upon the FAI regarding funding and also via Dept of Defence. Delaney and his then crew, all now long since shafted, knifed O'Byrne to scupper ep and back Bertie Bowl.
Bertie Bowl never built, eircom Park never built and now we are stuck with Delaney.
Huge missed opportunity, not only saying it now, it has always been my belief.
Just to clarify the Dept of Defence's role for S88, political pressure was placed on them to object on the basis that EP would pose a hazard for Baldonnell Aerodrome. It is commonly accepted that the air corps had no such concerns.
Was'nt there some bull**** spin about planes being in danger landing at Baldonnel if the Eircom Stadium was built?Quote:
Originally Posted by soccerc
I have to be honest that emotionally I was loathe to give up Lansdowne and the sheer convenience of it, but always felt a proper football only stadium with large but limited capacity was the way forward. Attending souless bowls like Niigata and other places made me loathe that type of ground and if Bertie, Delaney and their crew had any feeling for the game they'd have appreciated this I think.
Huge opportunity missed. Government bribed FAI to get on board with Bertie Bowl and used Dept of Defence to try and scupper Eircom Park.
In reality the FAI had to give up EP and then of course the BB gets scuppered.
OK, so that's EP put straight. Thanks. A real shame.
What about the general issue of government support for the game? Is government investment in football better, worse or the same as for the other main field sports such as GAA and rugby?
bertie pulled a fast one by giving the gaa a big bag of cash to allow crook park to be used also, some very funny stuff went on back then....
Worth another enquiry? :)
Agree. I have always maintained the EP was a great idea. If I remember correctly there were scandalous rumours going around regarding the project in terms of finances. I always wondered how EP was not viable and the redevelopment of a stadium which was only in use for 3 months a year and did not allow the other major sports in the country into its "stadia" due to a constitutional ban was viable.Quote:
Originally Posted by markmc
It would have been excellent all round. A nice 45K football stadium, with the retractable roof which means it could be used for concerts etc all year round. Topping that with the internationals both U21 and senior and it was definitely a financial goer. Also I have no doubt that Leinster and Munster european games would have been played there whilst the IRFU were revamping LR given the good relationship between the IRFU and FAI. EL games between the bigger clubs could have been played there and this would, in my mind, attract people to domestic games by crushing the whole rubbish grounds argument.
As someone involved in the Aeronautical industry I find that Baldonnel rumour hilarious, its a military airzone but to suggest that a stadium nearby would cause problems for planes landing is incredible.
I will always maintain that this project was shelved simply due to the fact that Bertie and Co. had to make a call and decide to fund Crook Park to the hilts instead of giving finance to both projects.
The GAA had vision to see what was needed, made a plan, took a congress decision to do it, formed an executive committee to act on it and then the genious of Liam Mulvihill to guide them. There is no comparison between them and the FAI, they have been a flunky, divisive backstabbing lot since they shafted Dalymount.
The FAI president is David Blood, last night he looked older, blinder and slower than Dev ever did at Croke Park.
I remember being enthralled with the prospect of eP and the prospect of having our own stadium with which to make our own revenue. The backstabbing of Bernard O'Byrne who to me seemed like a fundamentally nice man was the eye-opener for me to the workings of the FAI.
And why compare the GAA to the FAI? There is no comparison. One got Millions upon millions to help drive the association, the other for years got breadcrumbs. I was physically threatened when trying to start a soccer team in the constituency where John O'Donoghue is from.
The GAA are in no position to take the high moral ground with football over the years.
My recollection is that the project was to be financed by a securitisation underwritten by Deutsche Bank, or Bankers Trust before it was bought by Deutsche Bank.Quote:
Originally Posted by reder
Two essential features of "securitisation" i.e., loosely speaking, borrowing secured on a defined stream of future cash flows and/or hard assets:
(1) bankruptcy remoteness: the lenders' debt is serviced only by the cash flows (in this case presumably ticket sales & ancillary match day revenues). In the event the FAI or whoever legally owned the stadium went bankrupt the lenders could appoint another entity to mange the stadium to generate the revenues required to service the debt. Furthermore the cash flows would never actually have gone to the FAI - the ticket sales be paid directly to a specially incorporated entity established to receive the incoming cash and pay out the debt servicing costs. This protects the lenders against the FAI bagging the cash, going bust and then saying "foreclose you suckers, but we ain't got the money any more".
Realistically the FAI would probably have been allowed to extract any cash receiptys over and above a pre-agreed debt repayment schedule.
(2) non-recourse: the lenders only had access to the pledged cash flows. If ticket sales and other revenues were insufficient to service the debt the lenders would not have had access to the FAI to repay the debt from their general resources. I'm sure the eircom Park financing would also have had security over the stadium & land itself, but either way, if the revenues were down the lenders could only take over the stadium but would not have had recourse to the FAI.
So therefore, taking on the eP project through this sort of financing involved little real risk to the FAI. Once the debt was fully repaid they'd have had unencumbered access to all the revenues and an unmortgaged interest in the stadium and land. If the project was "unviable" that'd have been up to the capital markets to decide, not Bertie & co. If Deutsche Bank was to underwrite the project then it was their risk, nobody else's.
Just found this online, trying to establish exactly how it was to be financed.
FAI abandons field of dreams
Sunday, March 18, 2001
Stephen McMahon
The Football Association of Ireland (FAI) has spent more than £3.3 million in a failed attempt to develop a `spiritual home' for Irish soccer. The Eircom Park proposal long ago turned into a bitter battle. The project was announced at a press conference in January 1999 but, two years and reams of newspaper print later, Eircom Park is finally dead.
Timetable of a dream
1999
January: FAI chief executive Bernard O'Byrne unveils a plan for "Irish soccer's long-awaited spiritual home", a £65 million stadium at Citywest in south-west Dublin. The 45,000-seater stadium is to be finished in the autumn of 2001.
The concept relies on the flexibility and marketability of the site for events other than soccer. The development has the backing of Deutsche Bank and IMG, the world's largest sports marketing company. The government cautiously supports the proposal, but remains committed to the planned -- but still unannounced -- Sports Campus Ireland in Abbotstown.
July: The government fires its first shot across the bows of the FAI. Jim McDaid, the Minister for Tourism, Sport and Recreation, offers £11 million in funding for National League soccer clubs if the FAI abandons the Citywest project and becomes a tenant at the government's planned stadium.
Later in the month, the FAI announces an £18 million sponsorship deal with Eircom. This includes an £11 million branding of the stadium as Eircom Park, a further £6 million sponsorship of the national team and £1 million for the poor relations in the National League over four years. The private row with the government starts to worsen.
October: The FAI submits a formal planning application for Eircom Park to South Dublin County Council. O'Byrne estimates it will take five to ten months to process. The project completion date is revised to late 2002.
2000
January: Taoiseach Bertie Ahern presents his feasibility study for an 80,000-seater stadium in Abbotstown. The cost of Sports Campus Ireland is put at £281 million, though a £50 million donation from JP McManus reduces the exchequer's burden to £231 million. The planned completion date is 2005. The FAI snubs the government's plans.
February: A number of National League clubs publicly question the wisdom of continuing with the stadium after the government's announcement. FAI treasurer Brendan Menton questions the project costs.
The FAI board of management unanimously backs O'Byrne, though dissenting voices are raised by three members of the board. The Eircom Park project is increasingly promoted by an inner circle within the FAI -- and the stadium management company Centime -- which includes O'Byrne and FAI president Pat Quigley, along with professional adviser Lawrence St John and PR company Gallagher and Kelly.
South Dublin planning officials pose 42 queries, chiefly regarding an environmental impact study and traffic management around the stadium. The Department of Defence says the proposed stadium is on the flight path into Baldonnel airport. The completion date is pushed back again to autumn 2003.
March: FAI officials meet Ahern, but there is no agreement. Claims of rising costs are denied by O'Byrne. The FAI Council votes 11-6 against a proposal to discuss the relative merits of both stadium plans.
May: O'Byrne dismisses speculation about escalating costs as "absolute nonsense". Critics of the project -- led by Menton and John Delaney -- insist costs are closer to £100 million.
June: The FAI lodges a detailed planning application answering the 42 points raised by the local authority.
July: At the FAI annual general meeting, O'Byrne repeats his claim that the economics of Eircom Park represent a much better deal than anything the government could offer. Menton expresses doubts about the £65 million price tag and IMG's ability to generate £80 million in advance sales. He also questions the association's ability to service the debt burden of £31.4 million. A National League clubs meeting questions the sense of "going it alone" when the government is building a national stadium.
August: Menton resigns from Centime, saying he is "fed up not being told things". HBG, the building company, indicates that delays in the planning process have driven costs above the original estimate. O'Byrne reaffirms his belief that costs remain at £65 million.
September: Eircom Park granted planning permission subject to 40 conditions.
October: The FAI appeals to An Bord Pleanala over the conditions imposed by South Dublin County Council.
November: Menton threatens legal action against the FAI if he is not given detailed information on the project. The treasurer also revises his estimate of the stadium costs up to £130 million. He says the FAI is in serious danger of bankruptcy, having spent £3.3 million on the project to date. O'Byrne insists the project is on course and that cost estimates are accurate.
December: IMG reveals that advance sales of premium seats and corporate boxes are £10 million less than previously claimed by supporters of Eircom Park. FAI president Quigley admits he no longer knows the real cost of the project. Deutsche Bank expresses concern at the association's ability to service the escalating debt.
2001
January: Independent sports consultant Dr John Tunnicliffe labels the FAI plan "unworkable" on RTE's Prime Time. He describes as "unrealistic" the association's plan for 57 non-sporting events a year at the stadium and says other parts of the plans are "inadequate and involve miscalculations". He concludes that the association will be "at serious risk of overexposing itself" if it continues with Eircom Park.
O'Byrne concedes that costs have gone up, but insists that the project is still manageable. He says the cost of the project to the FAI is £57 million, including the £16 million cost of the site. He agrees the cost of construction has risen from £68 million to £109 million. The FAI board is split, but a majority remains loyal to O'Byrne.
February: The FAI votes to enter into negotiations with Davy Hickey Properties, the developers of Citywest and owners of the 50-acre Eircom Park site. It becomes increasingly obvious that the government's Sports Campus Ireland is the only option.
Negotiations with Davy Hickey break down after the property group advises the FAI to enter into negotiations with the government. O'Byrne asserts: "The Eircom Park project is stronger now than it has ever been". The FAI continues to search for a £50 million investor, but the debt of £57 million is widely regarded as an insurmountable problem.
An Bord Pleanala announces a date in June for the oral hearing. Opponents of the scheme claim the offer from Davy Hickey Properties would leave the FAI bankrupt for the next 20 years.
March: O'Byrne admits to "inadvertent misallocations" of personal expenses on an FAI credit card. The government announces a £45 million deal for Irish soccer if the FAI abandons Eircom Park and relocates to Abbotstown.
The FAI votes to abandon Eircom Park
John Byrne from Galway is a highly placed FAI official. He is also a FF hack.
He was leaned on( by the Government) to ensure that Eircom Park wasn't built in favour of the Bertie Bowl, and now we have neither !
Eircom Park for those of you too young to remember was going to be based on the Willem II stadium in Tilburg in Holland which has a removable pitch. This means the surface can always be pristine and it can be used for concerts etc. A new pitch is always being grown under glass near the stadium and the pitch is removed after matches, at the end of a season or group of games, for maintenance purposes. It was a very good idea torpedoed by political interference (see above and previous posts).
P.S. Bernard O'Byrne is and was a fundementally decent man. He managed to recover from being responsible for security at Lansdowne Road on the day of the English yob riot in 1995 to become chief executive succeeding Sean Connolly. He alone of all FAI officials publically opposed the Dunphy/O'Callaghan/ Hammam bid to relocate Wimbledon to Neilstown to play in the English Premiershi* . The only other public opposition was the Title newspaper and a bunch of fans from all over the League called National League United.
He also repaid the money that he used the wrong credit card for in his spending. So the FAI was not out of pocket on that little episode.
P.P.S. John Delaney has spent the last decade or so getting even with the officials within the FAI who got rid of his father who was involved in an episode involving touting tickets at the 1990 World Cup.
Eircom Park bit the dust because it was part of John's machinations in getting even with those who '' gotten rid of my Pa'', and that also fundamentally involved shafting Bernard O'Byrne. Torpedoing Eircom Park was the meat of getting rid of Bernard, the credit card issue was just the side salad.