Ireland v Ireland

A thought i had the other day. On paper is the team that drew with Germany (who were in the final 4 weeks later) in 2002 any better than the team we could have now??

Shay Given v Shay Given: Shay is every bit as good now as then, more experience

Steve Finnan v Steve Finnan: Ditto Given, except he has been in 2 champions league finals since

Gary Breen v Andy O' Brien: O'Brien has had a few bad performances. Breen had a few good performances

Steve Staunton v Richard Dunne: Stan was near the end, and always worried me in the middle. Dunne any time

Ian Harte v Ian Harte/Kilbane: Older, probably not wiser. I never thought 5 years later we would be weaker in this position. Kilbane might be the answer here for now

Gary Kelly v McGeady/Ireland: Kelly was to far up the park, either McGeady or Ireland any time. Both natural in the role

Matt Holland v Andy Reid/Gibson/McPhail: We certainly have more creativity going forward in this position

Mark Kinsella v Lee Carsley: Both experienced holding midfielders at respective times. Equal imho

Kevin Kilbane v Stephen Hunt/Damian Duff: Won't dignify this one with an answer

Robbie Keane v Robbie Keane: Ireland form suggest better then. Spurs form says better now. Why are we not getting the best from him??

Damian Duff v Kevin Doyle: As a striker, Doyle every time


This suggests to me we should on paper have a very good chance at home against a German side it isn't hard to argue have gone downhill. The fact we have no chance, at home, while Mick Mccarthy could get a result away from home in the midst of Saipan, really does make me wonder what is going on inside the squad under Stan

I thought that the title of this thread had something to do with a court case involving one of our players :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by backtowalsall

This suggests to me we should on paper have a very good chance at home against a German side it isn't hard to argue have gone downhill. The fact we have no chance, at home, while Mick Mccarthy could get a result away from home in the midst of Saipan, really does make me wonder what is going on inside the squad under Stan

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WHAT?! The Germans have a fantastic team now. They will be favourites for the European Championships in my eyes...I've backed them already to win it.

If you're suggesting that a partnership of McPhail and Lee Carsley would be better than Holland and Kinsella who were excellent at that tournament you are having a laugh.

Given was better than, he seems shaky this season.

McCarthy v Stan Not exactly a hard choice

We had a much better bench back then too (no, not just Connolly)
McAteer, Morrison, Connolly, Quinn, Dunne, Cunningham, Steven Reid, Kiely, G. Kelly, A. Kelly

My starters in bold

Shay Given
Nick Colgan
Colin Doyle
Wouldn't take either over Kiely or Alan Kelly

Richard Dunne
Steve Finnan
Stephen Kelly
Joey O’Brien
Ian Harte
Kevin Kilbane
Wouldn't even think about having either of those two in over Kenny Cunningham, Dunne or Gary Kelly


Lee Carsley
Jonathon Douglas
Stephen Hunt
Stephen Ireland
Aiden McGeady
Alan O’Brien
Darren Potter
Andy Reid
Hmmm, Steven Reid and Jason McAteer coming on or Stephen Ireland, Alan O'Brien, and Potter? :rolleyes:


Kevin Doyle
Stephen Elliot
Robbie Keane
Andy Keogh
Shane Long
Daryl Murphy

No question whatsoever, combine those four's goals this season (it should equal 5, and Long's just hit him and bounced in...even take last season, only Murphy had more than 5 goals, Keogh had more, though many in League 1) and compare to what Connolly, Morrison, and Niall Quinn did that season it should be no brainer (Actually, I'd still take Connolly and Morrison (maybe Quinn too) over the above 4 but you all knew that already)

I reckon the away Ireland would be 1 nil up until the 92nd minute and it'd finish 1-1.

A few points
1 - Given may be more experienced but he has also had more than his share of injuries since then, I'd say his injuries have taken a bit of the edge from his game, coupled that with the fact that in 2002 Newcastle were a Champions league side and in the last 3 seasons they have managed to finish in the top half just once, I don't think the managerial merry-go-round has helped his form either.

2 - The back 4 is about the same, in 02 we were much more experienced but Harte was a weak link, personally sppeaking I think Finnan, Dunne, McShane & O'Shea are as strong as the back 4 in Japan but in a crunch I'd go for the experience of Staunton & Breen over Dunne & McShane.

3 - The central midfield is about 70% weaker than it was in Japan, Holland & Kinsella were players in their prime playing regularly for decent premiership sides. Both very honest players who gave everything, currently we have Carsley who is coming to the end of his career & a choice of players who have neve cut the mustard in the top level.

4 - I think our wide players 5 years ago were much more defensive minded than we have now, not sure whether that's a good thing or not.. I think it's difficult to compare playing McGeady or Gary Kelly 1 will be rock solid defensively the other is more likely to create something, certainly in a game we have to win you'd go for the attacking option but 5 years ago the objective was not to lose.

6 - Whatever the merits of the individuals involved I think it's clear that the Duff/Keane partnership worked better than the Doyle/Keane one, that's not to say it won't ever work but I've never been convinced by them as a pair.

7 - Finally, 5 years ago Germany were awful, one of the weakest sides they've ever sent to a world cup, they have been improving consistently over the last couple of years, I think we will be extremely lucky to get a point.

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Originally Posted by danonion

If you're suggesting that a partnership of McPhail and Lee Carsley would be better than Holland and Kinsella who were excellent at that tournament you are having a laugh.

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Never a fan of Holland or Kinsella, both looked ok alongside Keane but as a combination they were completely anonymous. too similar and never going to put their foot on the ball and spread it around (especially Holland)...would go for a combination of Carsley/Reid every time.....

Just a few points:

On paper, the current team is at least as good as before, however Mick Mc was capable of getting more from the team than the sum of the parts which Stan is not. Mick made plenty of mistakes at first but learnt from these which was reflected in his team selections, Stan does not seem to be doing the same.

The team in the 2002 WC excelled themselves in part due to the Roy Keane affair and in all honesty shouldve progressed further. With RK in the team, then who knows!

Thirdly, we still have Quinn on the bench, who was great to bring on for the last 20 and Robbie particularly benefits from such a players alongside - a great example of this was last Sats game as Liverpool - two knock downs to Keane = two good finishes.

Then why does Alan Lee not get at least a place on the bench??

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did that Gemany side not get to the world cup final??

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Originally Posted by backtowalsall

Then why does Alan Lee not get at least a place on the bench??

Correct me if I'm wrong, but did that Gemany side not get to the world cup final??

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You're wrong.

With an ability to ignore facts that easily, you should work for the FAI

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"We have maintained our traditionally good home form, and combined with good away wins in Slovakia nd Cyprus we are looking forward to the finals. Steve Staunton has now proved himself at this level"

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