Maze stadium plan 'will proceed'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6766289.stm

Well it looks like they are going forward with this regardless of the feeling from NI supporters.

It's going to cost the tax payer over 100 million, when it could cost far less to bring Windsor up to standard.

The location is rubbish to, no infrusture at all. This all has to be built at the expense of tax payers.

Then there is Poots, who ISN'T serving the people of Northern Ireland, he is serving his constituents and his constituents only. He should never have been in this ministerial position where he has obvious vested interests. But then what do we expect from politicians in Northern Ireland.

Our politicians are good at shouting about the Green/Orange part of politics, but when it comes to actually making decisions, they are about as useful ashtray on a bike.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6766289.stm

Well it looks like they are going forward with this regardless of the feeling from NI supporters.

It's going to cost the tax payer over 100 million, when it could cost far less to bring Windsor up to standard.

The location is rubbish to, no infrusture at all. This all has to be built at the expense of tax payers.

Then there is Poots, who ISN'T serving the people of Northern Ireland, he is serving his constituents and his constituents only. He should never have been in this ministerial position where he has obvious vested interests. But then what do we expect from politicians in Northern Ireland.

Our politicians are good at shouting about the Green/Orange part of politics, but when it comes to actually making decisions, they are about as useful ashtray on a bike.

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Aye this is a bit of a joke nobody wants the maze its in the middle of nowhere! saw your man Poots there on the news he was claiming that Belfast city Council were not being proactive enough in terms of their bid to have the stadium built in Belfast, apparently they have shown him no plans etc!

But isn't there a bit of a conflict of interest here as the Maze site is in the constituency which Edwin Poots is an MLA for?

So GAA are not objecting to this in any way :confused:

It really is a different country up there.

kdjac

Well unlike Tallaght I believe the stadium will be designed from the outset to accomodate Football Rugby and Gaelic games. However I don't think the Ulster GAA are that keen on the idea of using a stadium in which 'foreign Games' are played and so despite the fact that the GAA said they would use it I'm not sure they actually will!

Unlike the south the GAA doesn't wield as much political clout in the North for obvious reasons! But I hope Rovers can overcome the GAA nuts down in Dublin and get the stadium they deserve!

The GAA has to pay tax on gate receipts in the North so they play big ulster games in the south.

I'll post what I have posted on ILF

"Right I've read this thread and listened, half heartedly, to the National Stadium debate. My understanding is that the government will release £160 million for the Maze stadium.


The Marketing Director, Windsor Roar, has a profitable solution for Northern Ireland. Give £20 million to Linfield to upgrade Windsor; £20 million to the GAA to improve Casement; and £20 million to Ulster rugby for Ravenhill.


That leaves £100 million surplus for health, education, roads, environment or whatever! Everybodys happy .....................................except Edwin Comelately!!!


My proposals are not "rocket science" but you all know it makes sense! "

Everyone knows it makes sense except the people running the show. Same story different place. Other interests always come before the common good.

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Originally Posted by BleusAvantTout

Give £20 million to Linfield to upgrade Windsor; £20 million to the GAA to improve Casement; and £20 million to Ulster rugby for Ravenhill.

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The Maze is not the best place for the stadium, and personally I would have preferred somewhere in Belfast (near the city centre), BUT, one of the (few) things going for the Maze site is that it doesn't belong to (or even appear to belong to) either tribe (and that is a huge consideration when you're going to spend public money in NI).

You could quite easily upgrade Windsor, but I doubt you'd make it in to a cross-community shared piece of public infrastructure (especially not if Linfield would retain ownership); ditto for Casement and Ravenhill. I doubt you'd get that many Protestants/Unionists down to Casement Park even if you turned it into a stadium as good as the Stade de France or Allianz Arena (and vice-versa for Windsor).

As I said, the Maze is not the right decision, but neither would be the status quo with corporate boxes.

Let's face it people - thwe only sensible location for a national stadium is in Derry.

The City is in dire need of a new stadium, and none of our MLA's are Ministers at Stormont, so there could be no allegation of nepotism in any such decision.

You know it makes sense...... :D

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Originally Posted by dcfcsteve

Let's face it people - thwe only sensible location for a national stadium is in Derry.

The City is in dire need of a new stadium, and none of our MLA's are Ministers at Stormont, so there could be no allegation of nepotism in any such decision.

You know it makes sense...... :D

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I know an even better place London............. Don't matter;):D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BleusAvantTout

I'll post what I have posted on ILF

"Right I've read this thread and listened, half heartedly, to the National Stadium debate. My understanding is that the government will release £160 million for the Maze stadium.


The Marketing Director, Windsor Roar, has a profitable solution for Northern Ireland. Give £20 million to Linfield to upgrade Windsor; £20 million to the GAA to improve Casement; and £20 million to Ulster rugby for Ravenhill.


That leaves £100 million surplus for health, education, roads, environment or whatever! Everybodys happy .....................................except Edwin Comelately!!!


My proposals are not "rocket science" but you all know it makes sense! "

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And 20 Million for Steve Bruce - Everyone is happy:D

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

I know an even better pace

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What was wrong with the pace of the current discussion......?

:D :p

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Originally Posted by crc

The Maze is not the best place for the stadium, and personally I would have preferred somewhere in Belfast (near the city centre), BUT, one of the (few) things going for the Maze site is that it doesn't belong to (or even appear to belong to) either tribe (and that is a huge consideration when you're going to spend public money in NI).

You could quite easily upgrade Windsor, but I doubt you'd make it in to a cross-community shared piece of public infrastructure (especially not if Linfield would retain ownership); ditto for Casement and Ravenhill. I doubt you'd get that many Protestants/Unionists down to Casement Park even if you turned it into a stadium as good as the Stade de France or Allianz Arena (and vice-versa for Windsor).

As I said, the Maze is not the right decision, but neither would be the status quo with corporate boxes.

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I understand entirely the sentiment behind your post, CRC, but I don't think the Maze will solve the problem of sporting division in NI, because I don't see how/why the Ulster rugby crowd trooping out to the Maze on a Friday evening, followed by the NI crowd attending on a Saturday afternoon, followed by the GAA crowd watching a game on Sunday afternoon will change the attitudes or demographics of the three sports' respective fanbases. Why should it? Am I really going to change my current apathy towards GAA, and lukewarm interest in rugby into something more concrete merely because
they occasionally share a stadium on different days, at different times of the year?

Not only will a shared stadium not do anything for the problem but if anything, it will merely make things worse, since if it is the wrong design of stadium, in the wrong location, with hopelessly inadequate infrastructure, it will deter the more casual supporters amongst all three codes from attending their own preferred sport. This will then just leave the "hardcore" fans, who almost by definition, show the least crossover to other sports anyhow.

As an analogy, the nearby Sprucefield Shopping Centre draws shoppers of all sorts from all over NI, to shop in the same shops at the same time, yet it doesn't do anything to break down the barriers which we know all exist.

P.S. On a point of information, there is no way significant public money would go towards redeveloping Windsor whilst it remains in the ownership of Linfield (nor should it, imo). As it happens, Linfield are reasonably keen to sell Windsor and move to a smaller, purpose-built stadium in a location of their own choosing (possibly Newtownabbey?). A major sticking point for the IFA is, however, that they are tied into 80-odd years remaining on a 100 year lease for playing internationals at Windsor and they can't afford to buy themselves out. (This Lease was forced upon the IFA by the Government, by the way :confused:)

How far is the Maze from Belfast city centre? How accessible would it be for away fans or even home fans who wish to go to a game using public transport only? What capacity is the proposed new stadium?

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

I understand entirely the sentiment behind your post, CRC, but I don't think the Maze will solve the problem of sporting division in NI, because I don't see how/why the Ulster rugby crowd trooping out to the Maze on a Friday evening, followed by the NI crowd attending on a Saturday afternoon, followed by the GAA crowd watching a game on Sunday afternoon will change the attitudes or demographics of the three sports' respective fanbases. Why should it? Am I really going to change my current apathy towards GAA, and lukewarm interest in rugby into something more concrete merely because
they occasionally share a stadium on different days, at different times of the year?

Not only will a shared stadium not do anything for the problem but if anything, it will merely make things worse, since if it is the wrong design of stadium, in the wrong location, with hopelessly inadequate infrastructure, it will deter the more casual supporters amongst all three codes from attending their own preferred sport. This will then just leave the "hardcore" fans, who almost by definition, show the least crossover to other sports anyhow.

As an analogy, the nearby Sprucefield Shopping Centre draws shoppers of all sorts from all over NI, to shop in the same shops at the same time, yet it doesn't do anything to break down the barriers which we know all exist.

P.S. On a point of information, there is no way significant public money would go towards redeveloping Windsor whilst it remains in the ownership of Linfield (nor should it, imo). As it happens, Linfield are reasonably keen to sell Windsor and move to a smaller, purpose-built stadium in a location of their own choosing (possibly Newtownabbey?). A major sticking point for the IFA is, however, that they are tied into 80-odd years remaining on a 100 year lease for playing internationals at Windsor and they can't afford to buy themselves out. (This Lease was forced upon the IFA by the Government, by the way :confused:)

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Can I ask, what difference it makes taht the ground is owned by Linfield? Cliftonville has a brand spanking new stand built for them with government grants, they are going to be building another great wee stand with government grants.

Portadown are waiting for money to be released by the Government to start work on there stand as well.

What is the difference? It isn't a sh1t stirring question, I genuinely like to know why Linfield should be treated differently

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Originally Posted by reder

How far is the Maze from Belfast city centre? How accessible would it be for away fans or even home fans who wish to go to a game using public transport only? What capacity is the proposed new stadium?

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It's around 18 miles I think. The Sands Siro Capacity is 35,000. At present, there are no rail links, airports, boatlinks, no regular bus service. It hasn't got much/any infrustucture.

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Originally Posted by Steve Bruce

Can I ask, what difference it makes taht the ground is owned by Linfield? Cliftonville has a brand spanking new stand built for them with government grants, they are going to be building another great wee stand with government grants.

Portadown are waiting for money to be released by the Government to start work on there stand as well.

What is the difference? It isn't a sh1t stirring question, I genuinely like to know why Linfield should be treated differently

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Linfield are a private company, who currently receive a lucrative rent from their tenant, the IFA. Fair play to them, I say, for having the foresight and wherewithal for building Windsor in the first place, otherwise the IFA would have had to build their own stadium, or been homeless.

However, that was in the past and since they are presently (and understandably) unwilling/unable to maintain the stadium to new international standards, why should the Government give millions of taxpayers' money, destined for the benefit of the whole of soccer in NI, to just one club, to build what would effectively be a brand-new stadium, yet allow it to remain in Linfield's ownership? What would Linfield be "bringing to the party" with such an arrangement?

Fair enough, they would be allowing games to be staged, but they receive rent from the IFA for that on a per match basis.

In the end, if the Government is going to build a new stadium for NI, they should retain ownership of that stadium on behalf of NI. Which would mean that if it is to be located at Windsor, it is only proper that they pay Linfield a fair price for what is a valuable site, so that Linfield can then go away and build the stadium they need, in the location they prefer (which, I understand, is their preferred option anyhow).

Otherwise, if the Government don't buy the site from them, the only way Linfield can realise its development value will be by knocking it down and selling it for retail/housing etc.

Or would you have it the other way: i.e. the Government pays for a stadium, but someone else continues to own it? I'd love it if they came round and redeveloped my house for me, then handed me the keys back, but I doubt it, somehow.

P.S. I don't know how much Cliftonville are getting to do up Solitude to IL standards, but not only will it be dwarfed by the tens of millions necessary to do up Windsor to international standard, but I expect it is coming out of an NI-wide "pot", from which Linfield, Portadown and every other IL club are equally entitled to apply for a grant.

I am all in favour of a stadium in Belfast, I believe that the independent report by the university of ulster will support this when released today. I cant however support throwing any more money at Windsor park. The stadium isnt cut out for future international football. I say this having spent some of my greatest sporting moments sitting in the stadium,but I believe that we have to move on for the benifit of the country.

thought Id add this
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6221154.stm

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BleusAvantTout

I'll post what I have posted on ILF

"Right I've read this thread and listened, half heartedly, to the National Stadium debate. My understanding is that the government will release £160 million for the Maze stadium.


The Marketing Director, Windsor Roar, has a profitable solution for Northern Ireland. Give £20 million to Linfield to upgrade Windsor; £20 million to the GAA to improve Casement; and £20 million to Ulster rugby for Ravenhill.


That leaves £100 million surplus for health, education, roads, environment or whatever! Everybodys happy .....................................except Edwin Comelately!!!


My proposals are not "rocket science" but you all know it makes sense! "

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Hear what you are saying, only thing I don't agree on is giving £20 million towards Casement Park when it will never be used for "big" games. Completely pointless. Windsor is the perfect location for sport in Northern Ireland, they should put all the money into Windsor and Ulster Rugby can begin to play here too. :cool:

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Originally Posted by EalingGreen

Linfield are a private company, who currently receive a lucrative rent from their tenant, the IFA. Fair play to them, I say, for having the foresight and wherewithal for building Windsor in the first place, otherwise the IFA would have had to build their own stadium, or been homeless.

We are not a private company, we are a club. It is run by boardmembers voted on by members who are normal supporters.

However, that was in the past and since they are presently (and understandably) unwilling/unable to maintain the stadium to new international standards, why should the Government give millions of taxpayers' money, destined for the benefit of the whole of soccer in NI, to just one club, to build what would effectively be a brand-new stadium, yet allow it to remain in Linfield's ownership? What would Linfield be "bringing to the party" with such an arrangement?

We would be bringing the land in which the Government wouldn't need to pay for. Also in regards to rent, we only get 15% of the revenue. If NI gets big crowds and a lot of money, they have to pay us a good amount. If they get small crowds, then we only receive a small amount.

Fair enough, they would be allowing games to be staged, but they receive rent from the IFA for that on a per match basis.


In the end, if the Government is going to build a new stadium for NI, they should retain ownership of that stadium on behalf of NI. Which would mean that if it is to be located at Windsor, it is only proper that they pay Linfield a fair price for what is a valuable site, so that Linfield can then go away and build the stadium they need, in the location they prefer (which, I understand, is their preferred option anyhow).

That would suit Linfield down to teh ground. Windsor sits on land worth 40+ million.

Otherwise, if the Government don't buy the site from them, the only way Linfield can realise its development value will be by knocking it down and selling it for retail/housing etc.

We will also get a substancial pay off for breaking the contract. We are due to be gettings 15% of 10 million over the next 4 years in TV money alone. So how much should we expect for the IFA to buy out the 80 years left on the contract. A substancial 8 figure sum cannot be out of the question.

Or would you have it the other way: i.e. the Government pays for a stadium, but someone else continues to own it? I'd love it if they came round and redeveloped my house for me, then handed me the keys back, but I doubt it, somehow.

Would still be cheaper than to hand over half a billion worth of land to a private developer(see belfast telegraph)

P.S. I don't know how much Cliftonville are getting to do up Solitude to IL standards, but not only will it be dwarfed by the tens of millions necessary to do up Windsor to international standard, but I expect it is coming out of an NI-wide "pot", from which Linfield, Portadown and every other IL club are equally entitled to apply for a grant.

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Answers in bold.

Don't get me wrong, I want the IFA out of Windsor, if we get what is owed to us. It is better for Linfield. But as a Northern Ireland fan, I am against the Sands Siro Maze stadium.