Inconsistency in awarding European spots.

As everyone knows European places allocated as follows:-

League Champions: CL (Shels)
League Runners-Up: UEFA Cup(Derry)
League 3rd Place: Inter-toto Cup(Drogs)
FAI Cup Winners: UEFA Cup(Derry)

and Setanta Cup places;
League Winners and Runners-Up(Shels & Derry)
FAI Cup Winners(Derry)
League Cup Winners(Derry)

Obviously Derry's cup double and finishing second in league creates the issue of how the european spots get transferred over to other clubs.

Normally if a club qualifies for europe through its league position AND wins the FA cup then the losing cup finalists pick-up that european spot(e.g. West Ham qualifying for UEFA Cup because Liverpool already qualified for europe by virtue of league position). In Ireland's case that means St Pats in UEFA and Drogs in inter-toto cup with Cork not qualifying for europe at all. However the FAI(pre or post merger?) decided to use the alternative principle when a club qualifies for europe on the double(as in Derry's case)of allocating european spots based entirely on league standings. Therefore Derry's UEFA cup spot for winning the FAI Cup was transferred to Drogheda and in trun drogs inter-toto spot handed down to Cork.
Now that Shels withdrew from Europe the FAI are reversing their own policy. From St pats viewpoint it's irrelevent whether Derry are in UEFA or CL because FAI already decided that FAI cup losers weren't going to benefit.So in my view if the FAI were consistent then Derry being promoted to CL means that their UEFA cup spot be handed to Cork City and the intertoto cup given to team finished below Cork(Sligo, I think?).

But now that the FAI are awarding cup losers with UEFA Cup spot then likewise in the setanta cup Cork City should not have been entered. It should be Derry and drogs(drogs being handed entry after shels withdrawl) and St Pats and UCD as losing FAI and league cup finalists respectively.

Guess as governing body FAI can revise their own rules but I would have thought at season's outset clubs would be informed of what happens when circumstances create duplication. I think it's a ****-up and if Pats are in europe and setanta then UCD should also be in setanta and not Cork city alternatively if european spots are allocated based on league standings then Sligo should be in Europe(inter-toto cup) and Setanta and St Pats should be in neither.

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Originally Posted by kevinito

As everyone knows European places allocated as follows:-

League Champions: CL (Shels)
League Runners-Up: UEFA Cup(Derry)
League 3rd Place: Inter-toto Cup(Drogs)
FAI Cup Winners: UEFA Cup(Derry)

and Setanta Cup places;
League Winners and Runners-Up(Shels & Derry)
FAI Cup Winners(Derry)
League Cup Winners(Derry)

Obviously Derry's cup double and finishing second in league creates the issue of how the european spots get transferred over to other clubs.

Normally if a club qualifies for europe through its league position AND wins the FA cup then the losing cup finalists pick-up that european spot(e.g. West Ham qualifying for UEFA Cup because Liverpool already qualified for europe by virtue of league position).

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i stopped reading here. "normally"? each league has its own rules for nomination of european places. please proceed to crawl back in your troll cave. by the way, the setanta cup is a purely invitational cup and the FAI do not "nominate" anyone for places.

League Cup runners up place is transferred to next highest league finisher (similar to the way the league cup runners up in England does not receive a European place (eg Wigan Last year) while the FA Cup runners up may do (eg West Ham last year))

it down to the FAI on how to allocate eupropen slots, as was the case with liverpool in england winning the chapions league and finnising 5th, the FA there had a choice either to give the fourth champions league spot to the team that finnished fourth in the league our give it to liverpool who won the competition, they gave it to league standing which is right, but at the same time they can make up there own qualification rules, if they want they can give the champions leagur spot to the cup winners they can decide for themsleves,


stupid i know but thats how it works

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Originally Posted by don ramo

stupid i know but thats how it works

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i know.. and cant be arsed arguing for rovers cause truth be told, our ground isnt capable of holding loi football at the moment never mind European

Its actually a good point. Derry are not champions anyway so under no condition should the cup runners up be allocated a European spot.

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Originally Posted by finnpark

Its actually a good point. Derry are not champions anyway so under no condition should the cup runners up be allocated a European spot.

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:rolleyes:

Big on the rules then, are you?

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Originally Posted by Dodge

:rolleyes:

Big on the rules then, are you?

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"rules"? did it stipulate in the rulebook what happens if the league champions capitulate, leaving one team as both "champions" and cup winners? fair play to the imaginative genius who foresaw that.

the cup runner up should not get a place in Ireland because we want the best teams in Ireland playing in Europe.In England its a different story as they have enough good teams to rank up on coefficients.

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Originally Posted by Dodge

Big on the rules then, are you?

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Well rules are rules, they can either get you into 2 very lucrative Cup competitions that previously you hadn't qualified for or deprive you of a League title.
Imagine if ye were getting ridden rock solid on top of all this though.;)

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Originally Posted by Dodge

:rolleyes:

Big on the rules then, are you?

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No more so than anyone. Before Shels withdrew from Europe the top 4 teams in the league got the 4 euorpean places. Why should that change with Shels turning down their place? Sligo and Cork have been done.

Dublin league run by Dublin people for Dublin people. One rule for Dublin teams and another rule for all other teams. Some things never change.

If Pats finished 5th and Ligo finished runners up in th eleague I wonder would the rules be the same then? Me does not think so.

Point I was making is that none of you have a fecking clue what the rules stipulate so stop trying to sound smart

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Originally Posted by Rossi

the cup runner up should not get a place in Ireland because we want the best teams in Ireland playing in Europe.In England its a different story as they have enough good teams to rank up on coefficients.

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So sligo are better than Pats :confused:


kdjac

by last seasons league table... yes

but thats not the point.
i will not begrudge pats the place as simply we cant hold european fixtures in the showgrounds so...

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Originally Posted by kevinito

As everyone knows European places allocated as follows:-

League Champions: CL (Shels)
League Runners-Up: UEFA Cup(Derry)
League 3rd Place: Inter-toto Cup(Drogs)
FAI Cup Winners: UEFA Cup(Derry)

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How many times does this have to be explained? Please listen carefully this time!

The two UEFA Cup spots allocated to the FAI are split, one to the league and one to the FAI Cup. The FAI Cup spot ranks higher than the league spot on the same basis that the old Cup Winners Cup was considered a better competition than the UEFA Cup.

If the FAI Cup winners qualify for a better UEFA competition by virtue of their league standing (i.e. Champions League) the UEFA Cup spot allocated to the FAI Cup competition goes to the cup runners-up.

If the FAI Cup winners qualify for an equal, lesser or no UEFA competition by virtue of their league standing they take the UEFA Cup spot allocated to the FAI Cup competition. Any UEFA competition spot earned through their league position is then moved down to the next club in the league standings.

Before Shelbourne's withdrawal Derry City qualification for the UEFA Cup was through the FAI Cup firstly and the league secondly. Therefore Drogheda were awarded the UEFA Cup spot from the league and Cork the Inter-Toto spot.

After Shelbourne's withdrawal, Derry City now had a spot in a better ranked UEFA competition and so their UEFA Cup spot earned from the FAI Cup gets transferred to the FAI Cup runners-up.

The organising committee of the Setanta Sports Cup based their decision on the exact same principal as the Setanta Sports Cup was designed to give the clubs competing in the Champions League and UEFA Cup (but not the Inter-Toto) extra competitive games.

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Originally Posted by Stato

How many times does this have to be explained? Please listen carefully this time!

The two UEFA Cup spots allocated to the FAI are split, one to the league and one to the FAI Cup. The FAI Cup spot ranks higher than the league spot on the same basis that the old Cup Winners Cup was considered a better competition than the UEFA Cup.

If the FAI Cup winners qualify for a better UEFA competition by virtue of their league standing (i.e. Champions League) the UEFA Cup spot allocated to the FAI Cup competition goes to the cup runners-up.

If the FAI Cup winners qualify for an equal, lesser or no UEFA competition by virtue of their league standing they take the UEFA Cup spot allocated to the FAI Cup competition. Any UEFA competition spot earned through their league position is then moved down to the next club in the league standings.

Before Shelbourne's withdrawal Derry City qualification for the UEFA Cup was through the FAI Cup firstly and the league secondly. Therefore Drogheda were awarded the UEFA Cup spot from the league and Cork the Inter-Toto spot.

After Shelbourne's withdrawal, Derry City now had a spot in a better ranked UEFA competition and so their UEFA Cup spot earned from the FAI Cup gets transferred to the FAI Cup runners-up.

The organising committee of the Setanta Sports Cup based their decision on the exact same principal as the Setanta Sports Cup was designed to give the clubs competing in the Champions League and UEFA Cup (but not the Inter-Toto) extra competitive games.

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Round of applause feel.

The situation is exactly as explained above.

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Originally Posted by charliesboots

Round of applause feel.

The situation is exactly as explained above.

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But pats being better is a more accurate answer :)


kdjac

just get over it lads, even i have..

Hey Stato, Thank you for your explanation. It's clear now why st pats got uefa cup spot and also setanta cup place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stato

How many times does this have to be explained? Please listen carefully this time!

The two UEFA Cup spots allocated to the FAI are split, one to the league and one to the FAI Cup. The FAI Cup spot ranks higher than the league spot on the same basis that the old Cup Winners Cup was considered a better competition than the UEFA Cup.

If the FAI Cup winners qualify for a better UEFA competition by virtue of their league standing (i.e. Champions League) the UEFA Cup spot allocated to the FAI Cup competition goes to the cup runners-up.

If the FAI Cup winners qualify for an equal, lesser or no UEFA competition by virtue of their league standing they take the UEFA Cup spot allocated to the FAI Cup competition. Any UEFA competition spot earned through their league position is then moved down to the next club in the league standings.

Before Shelbourne's withdrawal Derry City qualification for the UEFA Cup was through the FAI Cup firstly and the league secondly. Therefore Drogheda were awarded the UEFA Cup spot from the league and Cork the Inter-Toto spot.

After Shelbourne's withdrawal, Derry City now had a spot in a better ranked UEFA competition and so their UEFA Cup spot earned from the FAI Cup gets transferred to the FAI Cup runners-up.

The organising committee of the Setanta Sports Cup based their decision on the exact same principal as the Setanta Sports Cup was designed to give the clubs competing in the Champions League and UEFA Cup (but not the Inter-Toto) extra competitive games.

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YES!!
I understand that!








(finally :( )